Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[Psycat]

So with this a wrap what do you guys expect for the future? Will Visma and Jonas go silently into the night and fade away ala Ineos(shocking downfall to be honest their best guy can barely hold on to the 3rd tier domestiques now) or will they answer the call for next year, heck maybe even earlier?

Sure Jonas will likely keep talking about how family matters the most and that he is glad to be alive and even able to race but is that really how he feels?

Now of course their feelings might not be relevant and Pog will cycle into the sunset and win every single stage of every GT next three years fistbumping the losers at every finish line? What gesture will he use once he reaches 21?

Are there any other upcoming threats towards him, granted they might be hard to spot since the true competitors(V, Froome etc) seems to just appear over night.

 

[Floatstick]

So with this a wrap what do you guys expect for the future?

If Remco goes to Ineos I think he will be in a better position to challenge for GC. Better team and better program(s), so it would allow us to see if he is really capable of competing.

As far as Visma fading away, I don't see that happening. They have a guy who is going to finish second despite losing absolutely critical prep time due to a crash. If they keep him upright next year so he and Pog actually have to race one another for every second, with a big budget Remco chasing them, it will make this year look like a fondo.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

So with this a wrap what do you guys expect for the future? Will Visma and Jonas go silently into the night and fade away ala Ineos(shocking downfall to be honest their best guy can barely hold on to the 3rd tier domestiques now) or will they answer the call for next year, heck maybe even earlier?

Wut? Visma-LAB will be super strong next year. Teddy vs Skeletor chapter 5 incoming. Expect the ultimate mutants battle.

 

[Psycat]

If Remco goes to Ineos I think he will be in a better position to challenge for GC. Better team and better program(s), so it would allow us to see if he is really capable of competing.

As far as Visma fading away, I don't see that happening. They have a guy who is going to finish second despite losing absolutely critical prep time due to a crash. If they keep him upright next year so he and Pog actually have to race one another for every second, with a big budget Remco chasing them, it will make this year look like a fondo.

I feel like there is no way Remco beats Pogacar anywhere close to this form and as he seems to improve by about 5-10% per year the gap will be hard to close. He also doesn't seem like the type of human who will get tired of winning. I don't have much trust in Ineos, their pillows etc seems outdated.

Vinge simply seems to be somewhat content to me, but that's just speculation and his reserved nature might skew the image.

Maybe Visma inadvertently turned him into a perennial 2nd when they gave Kuss the win at last years Vuelta(+ gifting stage to Pogacar in the Tour) I have my doubts over if Pogacar would have let Yates win in the same situation for example, he certainly showed he won't gift any stages today.

I am not saying it's impossible Vinge is back next year and puts up a fight. In fact id say it's quite likely but far from certain. As someone else said it's all guesswork really and who knows really just need to vent abit I suppose.

 

[noob]

We're not, it was a farce and this forum went mad at the time, but that was ONE race. He also showed signs of weakness. Pogacar has dominated every race this year and looks fresh as a daisy at the end. He's literally not showed any signs of weakness or fatigue at all.

When he had been to funeral some of us even thought he looked ill as his face was so grey. So I wouldn't say he hasn't shown fatigue. That time he really showed it. Can't remember which one it was now. I just remember how he looked after finishing. He looked nearly ill.

 

[Psycat]

Wut? Visma-LAB will be super strong next year. Teddy vs Skeletor chapter 5 incoming. Expect the ultimate mutants battle.

Let's hope so, was abit painful watching Pog having to restrain himself from just riding away today.

 

[Netserk]

After Beille, I won't make any projections about next year. It's too hard to say what can be expected or what will be needed.

 

[Tim Cahill]

Was in part the British that cannibalised Team Sky, lots of money, political/cultural capital, made on the back of their rise but they were absolutely loving it when they fell as well, parading Wiggo around on Andrew Marr was a highlight. You just wait until Jude Bellingham puts a foot wrong, they're already circling.

Whether the Slovenians, Dutch or Danes have a culture of eating their own I'm not entirely sure. Whatever brings these guys down will most likely be outside the cycling body politic because the current crop, outside of a few random Frenchmen don't have the brains or the bollocks to do anything.

 

[Monoxidator]

Was in part the British that cannibalised Team Sky, lots of money, political/cultural capital, made on the back of their rise but they were absolutely loving it when they fell as well, parading Wiggo around on Andrew Marr was a highlight. You just wait until Jude Bellingham puts a foot wrong, they're already circling.

Whether the Slovenians, Dutch or Danes have a culture of eating their own I'm not entirely sure. Whatever brings these guys down will most likely be outside the cycling body politic because the current crop, outside of a few random Frenchmen don't have the brains or the bollocks to do anything.

Yeah it’s going to come from outside cycling for sure. Maybe Dr. Schmidt will have some morals

 

[Netserk]

Whether the Slovenians, Dutch or Danes have a culture of eating their own I'm not entirely sure. Whatever brings these guys down will most likely be outside the cycling body politic because the current crop, outside of a few random Frenchmen don't have the brains or the bollocks to do anything.

Ask Riis and Rasmussen. Fortunately for Vingegaard, he is much more well-liked than those two.

 

[lenric]

hum gotta go wild and say that pogacar will never have a season has good as this one

 

[zlev11]

2'36 into a 2017 Porte time is hardly the dirtiest performance out there

it's not but he looked so easy. the way he rode away from Vingegaard in the last few hundred meters was crazy.

 

[zlev11]

So with this a wrap what do you guys expect for the future? Will Visma and Jonas go silently into the night and fade away ala Ineos(shocking downfall to be honest their best guy can barely hold on to the 3rd tier domestiques now) or will they answer the call for next year, heck maybe even earlier?

Sure Jonas will likely keep talking about how family matters the most and that he is glad to be alive and even able to race but is that really how he feels?

Now of course their feelings might not be relevant and Pog will cycle into the sunset and win every single stage of every GT next three years fistbumping the losers at every finish line? What gesture will he use once he reaches 21?

Are there any other upcoming threats towards him, granted they might be hard to spot since the true competitors(V, Froome etc) seems to just appear over night.

i have a feeling that Vingegaard was already maxed out the last few years and Pogacar was hellbent on making that ground up plus more. now that he has, i dont see Vingegaard being able to one-up him again. he will have to be doing 7 w/kg on 40 minute climbs to drop him, i think that just becomes too much. the only thing that will hopefully be different next year is Visma will have a stronger team with full strength Van Aert and Kuss (i say 'hopefully' from an entertainment perspective, it really doesn't matter to me which one of them wins).

 

[Valv.Piti]

Ask Riis and Rasmussen. Fortunately for Vingegaard, he is much more well-liked than those two.

Afterall, Riis still ran a successfull cycling team, and even after he admitted to doping, he was still regarded very highly by most. At least thats how I remember it. It was mainly Oleg Tinkoff doing Tinkoff things that reduced Riis to what he is now. MR on the other hand.. well, he's living a great life, being a cycling coach at a boarding school, doing the Tour for BT, selling his apartments in Lago Garda etc., but many people still despise him for whatever reason.

 

[Raest]

Are there any other upcoming threats towards him, ...

Hopefully the Gendarmerie

 

[noob]

Afterall, Riis still ran a successfull cycling team, and even after he admitted to doping, he was still regarded very highly by most. At least thats how I remember it. It was mainly Oleg Tinkoff doing Tinkoff things that reduced Riis to what he is now. MR on the other hand.. well, he's living a great life, being a cycling coach at a boarding school, doing the Tour for BT, selling his apartments in Lago Garda etc., but many people still despise him for whatever reason.

People hate feeling dumb so they love to hate on the person they think fooled them. Or at least they tell themselves their hate is righteous.

 

[lenric]

very curious about tomorrow, hope it's gonna be fun. giannetti should be the second coming of Robert Oppenheimer

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

very curious about tomorrow, hope it's gonna be fun. giannetti should be the second coming of Robert Oppenheimer

He said he didn't want to take risks in the descend, which I believe. But there's also a lot of climbing, and he looked really well in controll of his TT bike at the Giro so, even if he goes down without taking risks, I can imagine him having taking well enough before that. If he want's to win it he'll probably have to do another miracle ride in the first part of the TT if he does not want to take risks, but that's very much imaginable. He also does not seem to be tired at all compared to everyone else, which usually tends to be the biggest part about a late TT in a GT.

 

[fbjim]

Last weekend, after Plateau de Beille, I mentioned how it irks me they (Matxin and Gianetti) have managed to create this schtick, this ludic persona that just tries to please everybody and thus be the anti Armstrong. Well, it would seem I have found a new pet peeve in this context: waiting at the line, very much not tired, to fist bump and high five incoming riders. I suspect we'll so no Tyler Hamitlonesque interviews in the future, he seems rather desperate to get everybody on his side. It's working.

it's not new, it's what Indurain did. obviously it was in a different "flavor", it's just that Pogacar is the "fun-loving, boy-ish persona", and Indurain is the "guy who sportswriters always call 'classy'" persona.

it's soft power, basically. even to this day, you will never hear any criticism about Indurain because he was so well-liked and "classy". and i think that sort of thing is more enduring than Armstrong-esque bullying and domineering.

 

[SHAD0W93]

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[DrSahl]

Mauro Gianetti claims that Pog is only winning because Vingegaard is in bad shape. He said that Vingegaards last two wins had motivated Pog to become better and that is why he is so good this year.. its just motivation.

No need for clinic thread anymore.. we found the reason why his so good.. its just motivation.

 

[armchairclimber]

Bobby Julich was interesting on the WEDU youtube cast last night. Obvs the gains that he talks about would be in tandem with "medical" assistance. But it's a fairly good breakdown of why this generation is just so much faster ....every day...throughoutt the peloton.

 

[ppanther92]

Very true, I think the reason why Sky got so much stick off the press and fans was because it was just after Lance came out, so us cycling fans were very sensitive.

I rather think it was because of them being obnoxious about being a clean team and others being more or less stupid when you just can improve with science and marginal gains. And this narrative annoyed me the hell out.

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

Bobby Julich was interesting on the WEDU youtube cast last night. Obvs the gains that he talks about would be in tandem with "medical" assistance. But it's a fairly good breakdown of why this generation is just so much faster ....every day...throughoutt the peloton.

Yes interesting to hear from a coach about how "fueling" has changed. And I don't think it can be discounted as some of the explanation, the problem I see though is that it does not account for the sudden jump in performance. Especially as it is around long enough to have already affected young riders significantly, who, as Julich claimed and I guess he'll know, are also going faster than ever before. But if it's a known known for a longer time than a few years, why did we see an explosion in such a short time? Also the gains that this needs to account for are bonkers, even if you factor in that maybe the training principles of old were wrong from the new perspective.
He also talked about new methods of regeneration, like ice bath etc., but this stuff has been around forever now and we didn't see Froome go up a hill remotely as close as Pogacar does and they at least lay claim to have been the first team to take this stuff really seriously.
So while Julich's take was very interesting to hear about, the main questions remain unsolved for me.

 

[Extinction]

Yes interesting to hear from a coach about how "fueling" has changed. And I don't think it can be discounted as some of the explanation, the problem I see though is that it does not account for the sudden jump in performance. Especially as it is around long enough to have already affected young riders significantly, who, as Julich claimed and I guess he'll know, are also going faster than ever before. But if it's a known known for a longer time than a few years, why did we see an explosion in such a short time? Also the gains that this needs to account for are bonkers, even if you factor in that maybe the training principles of old were wrong from the new perspective.
He also talked about new methods of regeneration, like ice bath etc., but this stuff has been around forever now and we didn't see Froome go up a hill remotely as close as Pogacar does and they at least lay claim to have been the first team to take this stuff really seriously.
So while Julich's take was very interesting to hear about, the main questions remain unsolved for me.

Simple, nutrition and equipment alone cannot explain the ridiculous jumps in performance.