Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[pastronef]

I've lived all the Sky hate. some users with hard deep personal hate wanting that team to be erased, punished, failed, any worst fate to them.
with Pog there's disbelief, but that vitriol, that deep hate and anger aren't there (sauf some sick head on twitter, very marginal)

 

[zlev11]

I've lived all the Sky hate. some users with hard deep personal hate wanting that team to be erased, punished, failed, any worst fate to them.
with Pog there's disbelief, but that vitriol, that deep hate and anger aren't there (sauf some sick head on twitter, very marginal)

did you not read the last 5 pages of this thread? it is basically a carbon copy of the posts after Froome did something ridiculous.

 

[Cookster15]

It was 5:42 and he gained over half that time by out descending everyone else. So here is one of the legendary gigadoped performances and it's still no where near the sort of ridiculousness we have seen from Pogacar this year.

Nah, Floyd was more blatant - that day at least. Ask Stuart O’Grady who was in the break Landis caught and dropped like a stone that day. And Landis increased his gap on the chasing peloton on Col de Joux Plane in stifling heat, not the relative ripples of the world’s course. Testosterone patches work!

 

[zlev11]

Pog's not British, Paul doesn't care

was Armstrong British?

 

[AttaqueDeRolland]

Perhaps my recollection isn't the best, but I am certain Cadel Evans didn't see Ricco as a threat back then. When was Ricco a GC threat in a grand tour before the 2008 TdF - long climbs and TT? And we know by the almost shambolic way Ricco disappeared from the sport that he only achieved those results you list thanks to doping. Have some talent, dope, be a professional cyclist. This was the simplistic way Ricco saw the cycling pool he swam in. IMO there are additional variables which determine success.

You're shifting the goalposts here, mate. You said that Riccò was "nothing special." You didn't specify that you were talking specifically about being a "GC threat in a grand tour." You can be special in other ways; competing with Rebellin, Di Luca, and El Bala in the mid-2000s is certainly one of them.

 

[Casual cyclist]

Ok. The circus is back in town with the RNSM (red-nosed slow motorcyclist) continuing the s***-show. 100km solo this time around. Must be the weak field, guys, it has to be. Nobody really cares about WC road races. It was hilarious to see how emir’s PR machine was recently spinning the tale of Red Nose being “destroyed” after the miraculous TDF where he easily topped the best Pantani uphill on multiple occasions (‘cause “aero modern bikes”, we know – so aero, in fact, that the “coal miner” on the bike position does nothing to reduce the bike related aero effect). One can also recall he recent argument of the participant topt (who sounds a lot like a UAE PR guy, by the way) about the incredible new MTB size tires with negative rolling resistance (indeed it must be since the rolling resistance of traditional tubulars was in just over 10w range per wheel).

Still, the interesting question is what exactly the technology is that allows our carb-eating friend to ride away from all those weaklings when he pleases and how it – along with the frequency of him partaking of that electron power – evolved since that miraculous 2020 TDF “coal miner Lance” time trial. I am not an expert in electrical engineering (even though I have a PhD in physics), but, from the looks of it, I can surmise that it did indeed evolve somewhat since then. In that TDF TT, he most likely dumped the “juiced” bike which was used to carry him on the flat part and did the climb fresh on a regular bike. In 2021, they were waiting for cold rainy stages (remember that Toddly does not like heat) to unleash the electrons. Coincidentally, that TDF was won during just a stage like that (stage 8, if I remember correctly). But this time around – the whole season that is – miraculous rides became routine. So, what happened from the purely technical standpoint (leaving aside the politics of it)? It sounds like what they have now is more tolerant of heat and is likely quieter. That points to the possibility of them making the whole system more distributed – likely, residing along the seat tube – combined with some magnets in the rear wheel. Conveniently, many modern bikes, including Tuddly’s Colnago, have shaped seat tubes that closely hug the rear wheel. Anyone with more experience in such matters, please feel free to chime in.

 

[Tim Cahill]

Aero socks are the real dope

https://twitter.com/x/status/1840793330709393917

 

[E_F_]

Ok. The circus is back in town with the RNSM (red-nosed slow motorcyclist) continuing the s***-show. 100km solo this time around. Must be the weak field, guys, it has to be. Nobody really cares about WC road races. It was hilarious to see how emir’s PR machine was recently spinning the tale of Red Nose being “destroyed” after the miraculous TDF where he easily topped the best Pantani uphill on multiple occasions (‘cause “aero modern bikes”, we know – so aero, in fact, that the “coal miner” on the bike position does nothing to reduce the bike related aero effect). One can also recall he recent argument of the participant topt (who sounds a lot like a UAE PR guy, by the way) about the incredible new MTB size tires with negative rolling resistance (indeed it must be since the rolling resistance of traditional tubulars was in just over 10w range per wheel).

Still, the interesting question is what exactly the technology is that allows our carb-eating friend to ride away from all those weaklings when he pleases and how it – along with the frequency of him partaking of that electron power – evolved since that miraculous 2020 TDF “coal miner Lance” time trial. I am not an expert in electrical engineering (even though I have a PhD in physics), but, from the looks of it, I can surmise that it did indeed evolve somewhat since then. In that TDF TT, he most likely dumped the “juiced” bike which was used to carry him on the flat part and did the climb fresh on a regular bike. In 2021, they were waiting for cold rainy stages (remember that Toddly does not like heat) to unleash the electrons. Coincidentally, that TDF was won during just a stage like that (stage 8, if I remember correctly). But this time around – the whole season that is – miraculous rides became routine. So, what happened from the purely technical standpoint (leaving aside the politics of it)? It sounds like what they have now is more tolerant of heat and is likely quieter. That points to the possibility of them making the whole system more distributed – likely, residing along the seat tube – combined with some magnets in the rear wheel. Conveniently, many modern bikes, including Tuddly’s Colnago, have shaped seat tubes that closely hug the rear wheel. Anyone with more experience in such matters, please feel free to chime in.

Are you Cycling Highlights testing out the script for your next video?

 

[AttaqueDeRolland]

Pogi isn't motor doping. He's just "regular" doping. What's happened compared to a year or two ago is that UAE and Pogi have realized that not only are mainstream media and the vast majority not questioning his performances, they are outright celebrating and promoting his performances. So instead of keeping it relatively modest they have upped the ante. Right now, it's a game of chicken that's unfolding between UAE and mainstream media. The latter is afraid of how the general public will react if they start calling into question the legitimacy of Pogi's performances because they know from previous experiences that most viewers will support the rider until he is outright proven guilty, by his own admission or otherwise. The former is looking to see how far they can push the envelope, emboldened by the overwhelmingly positive feedback on especially social media where the critical comments are few and far apart in the grand scheme of things.

 

[Tim Cahill]

Gotta credit CyclingHighlights aka UncleCycling actually, despite his theatrical clickbaity presentation and speculative videos the information he had on Figueiredo and Mendonça months ago actually proved to be correct and he did seem to have a legitimate source.

 

[Oldermanish]

I've lived all the Sky hate. some users with hard deep personal hate wanting that team to be erased, punished, failed, any worst fate to them.
with Pog there's disbelief, but that vitriol, that deep hate and anger aren't there (sauf some sick head on twitter, very marginal)

The Sky guys and the strategy didn't really inspire a fan's deep desire to get to know them. That many came from the British Olympic program probably didn't help, either.

 

[Casual cyclist]

Pogi isn't motor doping. He's just "regular" doping. What's happened compared to a year or two ago is that UAE and Pogi have realized that not only are mainstream media and the vast majority not questioning his performances, they are outright celebrating and promoting his performances. So instead of keeping it relatively modest they have upped the ante. Right now, it's a game of chicken that's unfolding between UAE and mainstream media. The latter is afraid of how the general public will react if they start calling into question the legitimacy of Pogi's performances because they know from previous experiences that most viewers will support the rider until he is outright proven guilty, by his own admission or otherwise. The former is looking to see how far they can push the envelope, emboldened by the overwhelmingly positive feedback on especially social media where the critical comments are few and far apart in the grand scheme of things.

That's what I'm saying: the "ante" that is so easy to "up" at will is more likely to be of electromagnetic origin than of medico-biological one.

 

[Cookster15]

That's what I'm saying: the "ante" that is so easy to "up" at will is more likely to be of electromagnetic origin than of medico-biological one.

Can you find a (new) link to support this technology? Last time I looked, the motor doping thread wasn’t very convincing other than that woman MTB rider. Links and evidence posted there are not convincing.

Motor doping certainly has its believers but I am not yet one of them. Are we now suggesting Pog’s bikes were not properly checked by the UCI at the Tour or worlds? I find that very hard to believe.

 

[Casual cyclist]

Can you find a (new) link to support this technology? Last time I looked, the motor doping thread wasn’t very convincing other than that woman MTB rider. Links and evidence posted there are not convincing.

Motor doping certainly has its believers but I am not yet one of them. Are we now suggesting Pog’s bikes were not properly checked by the UCI at the Tour or worlds? I find that very hard to believe.

Red Nose's bikes are likely to be equipped with a highly custom one-off propulsion system. I kind of doubt they diligently created a website dedicated to its technical characteristics. As to UCI not "properly" checking his bikes during key events, I doubt there are many things easier to believe. Let's just put it this way: they most likely checked those bike "very properly". Just look up this thread a few pages back. Apparently, there was an overhead shot inadvertently capturing some heated exchange between a race commissaire (likely, some new guy, not properly filled in yet) and Red Nose's mechanic apparently refusing to release the said bike.

 

[pastronef]

did you not read the last 5 pages of this thread? it is basically a carbon copy of the posts after Froome did something ridiculous.

I spoke about real personal anger towards a rider who (Froome) shouldn't even had been allowed to race and sent back to Kenya. it was something else

 

[Extinction]

Pog's not British, Paul doesn't care

Well. neither was Armstrong.

 

[Extinction]

Good question. I think journalism is about shorter media cycles and pumping out new stories. Investigative journalism is on the wane. The return on investment isn't high enough. So maybe Moose was onto something. But if so, what about journalists who work for government owned media outlets?

True, but a good scandal sells copies. Although social media has seemed to take the place of real investigative journalism, which demonstrates how society is often being manipulated and conspiracy leads to social control or else distrust of even serious inquiry. It's a sad state of affairs.

 

[Extinction]

View: https://youtu.be/l0JBPml1gx8?si=6j1-JptwoCSwD5ND

 

[noob]

How can you have gotten that from MvDP interview if you are not a rabid fanboi? It was pretty clear MvDP was conspicuously biting his tongue.

I'd say MvdP already were hinting at tdf so yeah he's seriously gritting his teeth trying to shut his mouth

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

From the Guardian.

And rest assured, I’ve read the blogs. I’ve read the forum posts. I’ve stared at graphs and gone down Twitter rabbit holes and buried myself in haematocrit levels and watts per kilo up the Plateau de Beille and listened to a podcast in which Pogacar explains in frankly unwelcome levels of detail how many liquid carbs he can take on per racing hour before he has to *** himself. And fair play if this is what gets you off, if this is the level of commitment deemed necessary to be a Good Cycling Citizen.

But frankly, none of it has ever remotely interested me, and not out of an indifference to science or sporting morality but because to reduce Pogacar to a soup of numbers and chemicals is really the narrowest and most boring way of appreciating him; the most boring way of appreciating sport. Not to mention the fact that much of the cynicism relies on constructing a kind of alternative reality of his career, based on a bare minimum of hard facts and letting nudges and winks do the rest.

Perhaps the reality is that around every great athlete grow two fictions: an elegant and an inelegant version. And which we prefer, which version makes more sense to us, says something about how we process our world. Are we fated to be profane and fearful, to live in suspicion and mutual vigilance, wary of one another? Or is there still a beauty beyond corruption, a hope beyond futility, a wonder beyond cynicism, a clean break to win the world championship from 100km out? I don’t have the answers, and nor do you. But I know what fiction I’d rather live in.

This is both a celebration of Pogacar, as well as raising the question of doping. But rather than confront the question Jonathan Lieuw dismisses it for aesthetic reasons.

 

[Raest]

Red Nose's bikes are likely to be equipped with a highly custom one-off propulsion system. I kind of doubt they diligently created a website dedicated to its technical characteristics. As to UCI not "properly" checking his bikes during key events, I doubt there are many things easier to believe. Let's just put it this way: they most likely checked those bike "very properly". Just look up this thread a few pages back. Apparently, there was an overhead shot inadvertently capturing some heated exchange between a race commissaire (likely, some new guy, not properly filled in yet) and Red Nose's mechanic apparently refusing to release the said bike.

I read that but if this is done consistently it's bound to raise some eyebrows and at the very least some protests from other teams.

 

[AttaqueDeRolland]

From the Guardian.



This is both a celebration of Pogacar, as well as raising the question of doping. But rather than confront the question Jonathan Lieuw dismisses it for aesthetic reasons.

So ... to sum up, "who cares if he's cheating as long as it's spectacular." What a terrible approach, imagine if we took a similar approach to diving in football. Imagine if we turned a blind eye to the corruption of Italian football in the mid-2000s because it was a "spectacle" and a "good story." Give me a break, what an absolute copout. If we're going down that road, we might as well just legalize doping.

 

[BullsFan22]

This thread/forum will be busy for the next 5-10 years.

 

[noob]

This thread/forum will be busy for the next 5-10 years.

couldn't shorten it better!

 

[E_F_]

This thread/forum will be busy for the next 5-10 years.

The media clearly aren't helping, so we'll have to do everything ourselves.