Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[topt]

As if the "miner worker" Pog has some good TT position /s Your post is whataboutism at its finest

whataboutism is just an american word for hypocrisy

 

[ontheroad]

If he's smart he's gonna control things like Indurain. No need to pull a Froome to show everyone how superior you are.

Froome learned to dial it down after his first two tour wins. It took the heat off him a little. After the first 2 wins it was a case of blow them all away in the first two weeks when the race is still on and then lose a little bit of time in week 3 and put it down to tiredness. Makes him look human. Pogacar can win this Tour whatever way he chooses.

 

[Luthor]

whataboutism is just an american word for hypocrisy

If you say so.. bringing VDP in to excuse Pog's nuclear-powered performance is surely whataboutism for me.

 

[Red Rick]

oh yes, the clean red VDP, first time on TT bike probably this year and less than 30sec down on the doper

There isn't one guy in here who thinks VdP is cleanz.

 

[Fantastico]

oh yes, the clean red VDP, first time on TT bike probably this year and less than 30sec down on the doper

I'm pretty sure nobody insists that VDP is clean. But imagine, if even all the other dopers look totally exhausted at the finish, but Pogacar looks like he did a relaxed Sunday ride, what does that tell us about his performance...

 

[IndianCyclist]

I sigh like Kung...

King Kung was destroyed by Godzilla

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

I'm pretty sure nobody insists that VDP is clean. But imagine, if even all the other dopers look totally exhausted at the finish, but Pogacar looks like he did a relaxed Sunday ride, what does that tell us about his performance...

Pogacar did look tired after the fact. He was probably told to slow it down in the final km, though, as MVDP was on course to lose the yellow jersey by a few seconds. The other riders went flat-out until the finish line.

 

[ontheroad]

Pogacar did look tired after the fact. He was probably told to slow it down in the final km, though, as MVDP was on course to lose the yellow jersey by a few seconds. The other riders went flat-out until the finish line.

Would like to see detailed TT splits as it also seemed to me that Pogacar slowed down over the last few km to avoid taking yellow.

 

[Netserk]

Today seemed more spectacular than it was. The best references were either not present (Ganna, maybe Dumoulin too) or fully fit (Roglič, Van Aert, maybe Thomas too). Küng is obviously good, but he is no Cancellara.

 

[nayr497]

All the crashes really zapped my interest in paying attention; this ITT has officially nuked it.

Oh well. It's hot here, time to get the mtb bike out and hit the shady woods.

 

[spalco]

Here we go again...he is not even tired.

I wouldn't put too much weight into appearences. Some dopers are very good actors, others always have a poker face regardless of level of efforts. I think cycling history has shown that you can't even draw too many conclusions from results - losers (used to?) dope just as much as winners.

On the other hand, "if it's too good to be true..." probably still applies, so yeah.

 

[Rackham]

Today seemed more spectacular than it was. The best references were either not present (Ganna, maybe Dumoulin too) or fully fit (Roglič, Van Aert, maybe Thomas too). Küng is obviously good, but he is no Cancellara.

Yeah but tbh when it's not the Tour de France, Pogacar is a bit sh*t in a TT.

I mean no offense to anyone with the word "sh*t" here, but this is the guy who gets beaten in every TT (flat mainly) he rides in in the past 6 months. Tirreno, Basque Country (which was mountainous), Slovenian Nationals... he gets beat. Yeah I know he was Slovenian TT champ last year & of course the Planche des Belle Filles incident is there, but based on results the rest of the year I just don't buy that the "normal" base level of Tadej Pogacar is so effortlessly superior to guys who dominate him the rest of the year (like Wout van Aert).

It's kinda like when Lance was so comprehensively beaten by Ullrich in the Sydney Olympics 2000 TT when in the Tour, he always totally nuked everyone (Ullrich included). Where's the base level? I mean with Pogacar we only have supersonic Tour results whilst the rest is (as I said) a bit sh*t by comparison.

That's why I'll never believe this stuff.

 

[saganftw]

he is not a *** tt by far, so far this season hes been very consistent with only outlier being slovenian nationals, even under non tdf circumstances he should be regarded as top 5 favourite - if ganna, van aert, kung or bisseger are 3 stars, pogacar is easily a 2 star, 5 star if its 3rd week of a grand tour

btw i think most people would agree that Ulrich was a massive talent who would beat lance 9/10 ...except for tdf where lance had it down to the t

 

[roundabout]

Yes, Armstrong was 'comprehensively beaten' by under 30 seconds in a 50k TT. Sure.

And of course when Armstrong 'nuked' Ullrich in the Tour that year it was also under 30 seconds in a 1 hour long ITT.

Maybe doing half of the Vuelta like Ullrich was simply better than whatever Armstrong was doing after the Tour. Could just be as simple as that.

 

[topt]

I'm pretty sure nobody insists that VDP is clean. But imagine, if even all the other dopers look totally exhausted at the finish, but Pogacar looks like he did a relaxed Sunday ride, what does that tell us about his performance...

dont know, perhaps that he is better than anyone else

 

[Bolder]

He reminds me of a kinder, gentler LA

 

[nayr497]

^I don't listen to his podcasts, but isn't that where we find the "kinder, gentler LA"?

 

[Rackham]

he is not a *** tt by far, so far this season hes been very consistent with only outlier being slovenian nationals, even under non tdf circumstances he should be regarded as top 5 favourite - if ganna, van aert, kung or bisseger are 3 stars, pogacar is easily a 2 star, 5 star if its 3rd week of a grand tour

btw i think most people would agree that Ulrich was a massive talent who would beat lance 9/10 ...except for tdf where lance had it down to the t

Roglic smacked Pogacar in a 14 km Basque Country TT in April (he put 29 seconds into him). Wout van Aert put 12 seconds on Pogacar in a 10km TT in Tirreno-Adriatico.

After the first intermediate point today (8.8 km I believe), Pogacar was already annihilating everyone. The performance increase is massive compared to his "normal".

 

[XlandaluzeX]

I think UAE sent a strong message earlier this year when they signed him to that unusually long 6 year contract , like this is our guy and "we got his back". And we know UCI is thirsty for that oil money. His performance in every race this year has been nuclear, puto calvo Matxin stroke gold with this one.

So far one of the most ridiculous starts of Tour de France that I can remember. Cant wait to see the rest lol.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

quite stark contrast between roglic sweating like a pig, van aert with spit on his mouth and van der poel red as a communist party pamphlet but pogacar was pristine - in both performance and look, i bet my balls are sweatier on a summer day than his TT was today

Cool weather is the key, he likes it. It seems breathing French air gives Tadej additional watts during TTs.

In terms of absolute peak performance, I am curious how does he compare to the past performances.

Some examples that all of us know include:

Indurain 95
Riis 96
Ullrich 97
Pantani 98
Lance 2004-2005
Contador 2009
Froome 2013

I think I will slot Pogacar below Indurain and Lance, but ahead of everyone else.

Armstrong 2001 is the best overall (superb climbing + great TTs). In the mountains Pantani was the strongest and in the TTs Indurain ofc. Pog has had some great climbing performances and very strong TT but (at least so far) he's not been even nearly as dominant as those guys (though in terms of absolute performance he's one of the fasters climbers already, the level of the field is very high).

 

[Cookster15]

Today seemed more spectacular than it was. The best references were either not present (Ganna, maybe Dumoulin too) or fully fit (Roglič, Van Aert, maybe Thomas too). Küng is obviously good, but he is no Cancellara.

We hope you are right. Else it looks like a walkover. Especially if Pogi eased up in the final kms to avoid taking yellow. I'll be following stage 9 with trepidation.

 

[SafeBet]

If he's smart he's gonna control things like Indurain.

I don't think he will. Not that type of guy.
Perhaps in a few years when he's a bit more settled.

Honestly I can't say I'm surprised. His TT performances in prep races were better than last year and it's pretty clear he knows how to peak for the biggest goals. I'm not sure he would have beaten peak Ganna or Remco today though.

 

[JosefK]

For pure entertainment, just imagine what the mountain stages would be like if Pogi lost 5 minutes to the other GC guys on a crosswinds stage (like, if that could happen tomorrow--stage 6). The mountain stages would be a riot. Pogi would still win the whole thing, of course.

 

[Red Rick]

I don't think he will. Not that type of guy.
Perhaps in a few years when he's a bit more settled.

Honestly I can't say I'm surprised. His TT performances in prep races were better than last year and it's pretty clear he knows how to peak for the biggest goals. I'm not sure he would have beaten peak Ganna or Remco today though.

Not Ganna.

Remco I don't know why he's the benchmark here.

 

[JosefK]

I don't think he will. Not that type of guy.
Perhaps in a few years when he's a bit more settled.

Honestly I can't say I'm surprised. His TT performances in prep races were better than last year and it's pretty clear he knows how to peak for the biggest goals. I'm not sure he would have beaten peak Ganna or Remco today though.

You may have a point. He only beat Vingegaard by 27 seconds, and a wheelchair-bound Roglic by 44.