Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[SafeBet]

Not Ganna.

Remco I don't know why he's the benchmark here.

Perhaps hope that Remco will give Pog a run for his money in the future.
But you're right, let's say peak Dennis then.

 

[Froome]

You may have a point. He only beat Vingegaard by 27 seconds, and a wheelchair-bound Roglic by 44.

I agree, i don't see anything suspicious today by pogacar, maybe in la planche des belles filles, but not today, great performance anyway, but, yeah he only beat by 27 seconds vingegaard, 44 seconds a injured roglic, and kung is perfectly beatable by the best gc riders in the itt. Kung is not ganna. If pogi beat ganna by 18 seconds, that would be very suspicious.
Contador and froome in the past could fight with tony martin and cancellara, so that could be more suspicious than pogi beat kung.

 

[BlueRoads]

I agree, i don't see anything suspicious today by pogacar, maybe in la planche des belles filles, but not today, great performance anyway, but, yeah he only beat by 27 seconds vingegaard, 44 seconds a injured roglic, and kung is perfectly beatable by the best gc riders in the itt. Kung is not ganna. If pogi beat ganna by 18 seconds, that would be very suspicious.
Contador and froome in the past could fight with tony martin and cancellara, so that could be more suspicious than pogi beat kung.

Küng is in great shape, at least he was in the last races he did, and he's a real specialist.
I agree today was nothing like Pdbf, but on the other hand some of the advantages that Pogacar might have had that day last year weren't factors today: It wasn't a mountain finish, but rather flattish, it wasn't in the third week where his better recovery might have come into play.

 

[memyselfandI]

I'm not sure he would have beaten peak Ganna or Remco today though.

RE is new kid in town. Pogi and Ganna are heavyweight. I thought that hype around kid would settle after Giro somehow, but man..

 

[Red Rick]

Perhaps hope that Remco will give Pog a run for his money in the future.
But you're right, let's say peak Dennis then.

I guess there's the matter that maybe the GC guys had better conditiosn than some of the ITT guys, and we overrate Van Aert in this context cause he's only just back from surgery etc etc.

I don't have this performance as better than a top Dumo or Dennis tbh.

Spoiler

Paging the entire Cavendish thread for a weak field argument?

 

[Rollthedice]

Of course today wasn't a Padun type of performance. It was just a reminder with whom we are dealing here. Peyresourde, PdBF, the fact that he wins six months in a row pretty much everything just shows what an exceptional talent is capable with proper medical support.

 

[Netserk]

Check previous page, Red Rick.

Today seemed more spectacular than it was. The best references were either not present (Ganna, maybe Dumoulin too) or fully fit (Roglič, Van Aert, maybe Thomas too). Küng is obviously good, but he is no Cancellara.

 

[GuntherL1]

Would like to see detailed TT splits as it also seemed to me that Pogacar slowed down over the last few km to avoid taking yellow.

Pogacar final 3km:/km 4m05s/1m12s
VDP: 4m07s/1m09s

Küng last km: 1m11s
Alaphilippe last km: 1m12s
Vingegaard last km: 1m13s

Pogacars last km was relatively slow compared to his competitors.

 

[Ripper]

The climbs are going to be hilarious, I think. I'm very curious to see what happens.

Could be quite spectacular!

 

[Ripper]

oh yes, the clean red VDP, first time on TT bike probably this year and less than 30sec down on the doper

Pretty sure the poster is not saying vdP is clean. But TP is looking pretty serene while he spanks out riders who weight more but are known wattage monkeys (and some who would be considered better at the flat TT).

MvdP totally is not normal here, and given his proven characteristics, this is a really silly change. This is TP's thread though and TP just is taking the pi** now

 

[iceblink]

It's pretty simple, when a guy can win a team sport like TDF by not even needing a team, then there's something wrong.

People will come to regret hate of Sky trains when they realise the alternative is superhuman. At least Sky won with money not drugs.

 

[BullsFan22]

It's pretty simple, when a guy can win a team sport like TDF by not even needing a team, then there's something wrong.

People will come to regret hate of Sky trains when they realise the alternative is superhuman. At least Sky won with money not drugs.

LOL. They won with Money AND Drugs. I corrected it for you.

 

[Cookster15]

So assuming Mauro Gianetti is up to tricks with Pogacar any speculation on what and how? What are they doing and how are they getting past the controls?

 

[Froome]

So assuming Mauro Gianetti is up to tricks with Pogacar any speculation on what and how? What are they doing and how are they getting past the controls?

If there's some new drug in the peloton, everybody is involved in that, not just pogi and gianetti. But yeah, i don't trust on that guys, how is possible that in 2021, gianneti, machin, vinokorouv, riis and others, still work on professional cycling?!

 

[Cookster15]

Totally agree those names should be kicked out of cycling. But again I ask what might Pogi be using?

Oxygen vector doping of any type runs the risk of triggering an adverse finding - even if that is years from now. Remember it does not matter if the substance itself is detectable but if that results in skewy blood parameters compared to your baseline then you are in risky territory. Plus assuming all the other GC guys are doing something how does one rider get an obvious advantage?

 

[Pirazziattacks]

The most hilarious part about Pogacar's apparent infallibility is the complete lack of interest in coming up with an explanation. No marginal gains or anything of the sort. The closest we've got is no power meter in the TT last year and a malfunctioning radio in this TT.

 

[Koronin]

The most hilarious part about Pogacar's apparent infallibility is the complete lack of interest in coming up with an explanation. No marginal gains or anything of the sort. The closest we've got is no power meter in the TT last year and a malfunctioning radio in this TT.

Both are actually funny because if anything no radio or malfunctioning radio should mean he'd be riding even harder because he isn't getting updates.
The no power meter doesn't mean much because there are at least a few riders who don't pay it any attention when doing ITTs.

On the other hand, I prefer no explanation to explanations that are even worse or more ridiculous than what we're seeing.

 

[SafeBet]

If there's some new drug in the peloton, everybody is involved in that, not just pogi and gianetti. But yeah, i don't trust on that guys, how is possible that in 2021, gianneti, machin, vinokorouv, riis and others, still work on professional cycling?!

Vino is gone isn't he?

Btw I agree with @Koronin here. Always hated when Sky and others treated me and other fans like morons and stuffed their interviews with BS to justify their monster performances.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

The most hilarious part about Pogacar's apparent infallibility is the complete lack of interest in coming up with an explanation. No marginal gains or anything of the sort. The closest we've got is no power meter in the TT last year and a malfunctioning radio in this TT.

He says that this year they were working on his position and only one week before the Tour they found a perfect TT position for him.

 

[The pet snake of Froome]

Have L'Équipe done a double page spread calling this *** out yet, free pass been giving?

 

[Huapango]

Pocagar, a young rider, is one year older than last year. One would assume he is probably a stronger rider so that must be taken into consideration. Phenoms are phenoms. He reminds me a lot like Lemond.

 

[Rackham]

Have L'Équipe done a double page spread calling this *** out yet, free pass been giving?

No one talks about doping anymore, certainly not in the media. It's like 1997 all over again. I said that before the Tour (i.e. it'll be nuclear like the 90's) & it's verified so far. As much as Pogacar looks to be genuinely smug & effortless to the point of hilarity (seriously, at one point during the TT he even turned & looked right at the motorbike camera... & I half expected a wink), he's most certainly not the only superjuiced Dragon Ball Z character in this peloton.

Alaphilippe & Van der Poel for example are equally as funny. And those two benefit from circumstances surrounding their nationality & personal history, i.e. Alaphilippe is French, his girlfriend is a commentator on French TV & also co-organizes the Tour de la Provence (thus he has the right connections) & France has been hungry for a cycling superstar for decades. VdP meanwhile has the huge marketing benefit of the Poulidor connection (but let's not mention the fact his father Adrie was a proven doper...).

And add the fact the casual viewers who watch the Tour enjoy superman performances (like in the Olympics), especially when it's from their favorites or chauvinism related "support" for their national riders, you get an omerta enforced by pretty much everyone for their own specific reasons, i.e. for example as much as the French might not like Pogacar, why would they bring the house of cards down when Alaphilippe would also be caught in he middle? And so on.

And Pogacar is merely the king at the top of a pyramid which has always had dominant winners since the 90's (Indurain, Lance, Contador, Froome & now Pogacar).

 

[topt]

It's pretty simple, when a guy can win a team sport like TDF by not even needing a team, then there's something wrong.

People will come to regret hate of Sky trains when they realise the alternative is superhuman. At least Sky won with money not drugs.

ha ha ha ha good one mate

 

[topt]

all I can say to cynics around here is, better get used to it, he is only 22 and will only get better

 

[GuntherL1]

No one talks about doping anymore, certainly not in the media. It's like 1997 all over again. I said that before the Tour (i.e. it'll be nuclear like the 90's) & it's verified so far. As much as Pogacar looks to be genuinely smug & effortless to the point of hilarity (seriously, at one point during the TT he even turned & looked right at the motorbike camera... & I half expected a wink), he's most certainly not the only superjuiced Dragon Ball Z character in this peloton.

Alaphilippe & Van der Poel for example are equally as funny. And those two benefit from circumstances surrounding their nationality & personal history, i.e. Alaphilippe is French, his girlfriend is a commentator on French TV & also co-organizes the Tour de la Provence (thus he has the right connections) & France has been hungry for a cycling superstar for decades. VdP meanwhile has the huge marketing benefit of the Poulidor connection (but let's not mention the fact his father Adrie was a proven doper...).

And add the fact the casual viewers who watch the Tour enjoy superman performances (like in the Olympics), especially when it's from their favorites or chauvinism related "support" for their national riders, you get an omerta enforced by pretty much everyone for their own specific reasons, i.e. for example as much as the French might not like Pogacar, why would they bring the house of cards down when Alaphilippe would also be caught in he middle? And so on.

And Pogacar is merely the king at the top of a pyramid which has always had dominant winners since the 90's (Indurain, Lance, Contador, Froome & now Pogacar).

Alaphillipe, a good TT rider, lost 1m11s on Pogacar.
MvdP probably rode his first ITT at 100%. At the finish, he looked like someone had hung him upside down in a sauna for two hours.
MvdP always had the talent. Even back in 2012, he finished top in a short time trial 25 seconds ahead of... Remi Cavagna.

Compare that to Pogacars pre-Gianetti era ITT results.