Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[pelotonIQ]

Credibility is a spectrum. If you're a highly specialized rider, who only really excels at GC's in mountainous and tough stage races, it's a much more credible situation than a rider who excels at genuinely everything, from riding Grand Tour GC's to beating heavy watt machines in spring classics. It's not a complex or difficult logic. It's about what is feasible and credible. Being a highly specialized rider? That seems both feasible and credible, because you're focusing all your efforts on a very specific kind of training and racing. Being the best at everything? That's neither feasible nor credible.

Look at Wout. He's such a ridiculously talented rider that 40 years ago, he would have been a Bernard Hinault, a rider able to win both Roubaix and the Tour. Today? It's simply not possible for a rider like him, because the sport has become so much more professionalized and scientific in it's approach, so whenever there's a reasonably good climber it's not difficult for his team to develop that specific skill set through a minute, highly detailed, scientifically backed training plan. That wasn't reality four decades ago, where the approach mostly was to train as hard and for as long as humanly possible.

Logically, if you want to compete in races like De Ronde and Roubaix, in order to reach those peak power wattages, you're going to have to sacrifice some of your climbing ability, in simple terms because you need to be a bit heavier. That's not the case for Tadej, though. He still easily outclimbs the most specialized of climbers, truly lightweight mountain specialists like Mas, Carapaz, Landa, Gall, and, of course, on numerous occasions, also Vingegaard.

Are you sure you're replying to the right person?

 

[Stablo]

When it is blatantly obvious it just that 🤡

 

[Cookster15]

Logically, if you want to compete in races like De Ronde and Roubaix, in order to reach those peak power wattages, you're going to have to sacrifice some of your climbing ability, in simple terms because you need to be a bit heavier. That's not the case for Tadej, though. He still easily outclimbs the most specialized of climbers, truly lightweight mountain specialists like Mas, Carapaz, Landa, Gall, and, of course, on numerous occasions, also Vingegaard.

Pogacar's weight is stated at about 65Kg - that's "a bit" heavier than Vingegaard (58Kg). Hinault is listed at 62Kg and he won Roubaix.

Merckx was 74kg and could out climb specialised climbers - and Merckx was before EPO and modern oxygen vector doping became commonplace in the peloton. And not sure we can say Pogacar "easily" outclimbed the injured and ill prepared Vingegaard even in the 2024 Tour. On two stages Pogacar took significant time - PdB and the Bonnette stage. On the Bonnette stage Vingegaard admitted he wasn't as strong. In the Nice TT, Vingegaard still beat Remco.

Then of course there are also people here who think Pogacar is explained by motors which I have trouble accepting.

Note: I am not saying Pogacar doesn't have a doping advantage not shared by his rivals just arguing the logic and reasoning you made in the quoted passage.

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

So by the rules of Pogicentrism the clinic has been under for a while, do we now assume that:
(a) his battery was low (of his motor)
(b) Visma and Soudal are now ahead in the arms race.
(c) Remcocentrism has to take over
(d) The races are obviously pre-arranged*
?

*credit for (d) @kingjr

 

[kingjr]

So by the rules of Pogicentrism the clinic has been under for a while, do we now assume that:
(a) his battery was low (of his motor)
(b) Visma and Soudal are now ahead in the arms race.
(c) Remcocentrism has to take over
?

(d) The races are obviously pre-arranged.

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

The races are obviously pre-arranged.

Can we make that (d)?

 

[kingjr]

Can we make that (d)?

Done

 

[Rackham]

So by the rules of Pogicentrism the clinic has been under for a while, do we now assume that:
(a) his battery was low (of his motor)
(b) Visma and Soudal are now ahead in the arms race.
(c) Remcocentrism has to take over
?

It depends. Anyone who's been watching Pog race since forever might also remember he sometimes used to just coast through a race without looking for a performance. Yeah it's been a few years (his 2024 was monster stuff) but once-upon-a-time Pog used to race Emilia (for example) like a human. Either getting beaten by Rog or actually many years ago even riding gruppetto, basically. Then a week later he schooled everyone in Lombardia.

It's way too early to judge. This result will only become clearer by the weekend and when the Tour starts.

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

It depends. Anyone who's been watching Pog race since forever might also remember he sometimes used to just coast through a race without looking for a performance. Yeah it's been a few years (his 2024 was monster stuff) but once-upon-a-time Pog used to race Emilia (for example) like a human. Either getting beaten by Rog or actually many years ago even riding gruppetto, basically. Then a week later he schooled everyone in Lombardia.

It's way too early to judge. This result will only become clearer by the weekend and when the Tour starts.

That is true, one could also mention he just came from altitude, and might still be adapting. And also that he wants to peak in the second part of the Tour, yet all of this has one major flaw.: it doesn't tell us how we should overreact!

 

[Rackham]

That is true, one could also mention he just came from altitude, and might still be adapting. And also that he wants to peak in the second part of the Tour, yet all of this has one major flaw.: it doesn't tell us how we should overreact!

Well, I mean if we embrace the nature of the beast here aka pro sports is all about the drama, then sure, let's have at it: Pog might have gotten cooked in the heat today and could be very worried looking ahead at July.

Namely looking at the hot weather. So let's overreact and say a hot TdF will fry Pogi like roast chicken and put him off riding the Vuelta because it's even hotter in Spain.

 

[Tim Cahill]

I noticed he drank from his bottle 3 times in a 20 minute effort and did not look comfortable on the bike at all, I think illness/altitude adaptation or depleted blood rather than some fundamental physiological issue.

 

[fenns]

I noticed he drank from his bottle 3 times in a 20 minute effort and did not look comfortable on the bike at all, I think illness/altitude adaptation or depleted blood rather than some fundamental physiological issue.

yeah I saw him drinking on the climb and thought that was strange

 

[Stablo]

So by the rules of Pogicentrism the clinic has been under for a while, do we now assume that:
(a) his battery was low (of his motor)
(b) Visma and Soudal are now ahead in the arms race.
(c) Remcocentrism has to take over
(d) The races are obviously pre-arranged*
?

*credit for (d) @kingjr

Pog was looking at his pedals midway throught the time trial, something on the bike wasn't working normally, that's why he also checked Vingos bike😉so obviously all of the above, but maybe a&b the most. This was the natural non e-assisted level of this so called super talent.

 

[Mayomaniac]

This is just smoke and mirrors before the Tour. That said, cobbled classics + gc at the Tour is probably harder for him that Giro-Tour, putting on more size and working more on his sprint + explosive power for the classics before having to focus more on w/kg and lower weights.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Pogi rode paniagua today and you know what? This was a darn good performance.

 

[Cookster15]

So by the rules of Pogicentrism the clinic has been under for a while, do we now assume that:
(a) his battery was low (of his motor)
(b) Visma and Soudal are now ahead in the arms race.
(c) Remcocentrism has to take over
?

(d) Its the Dauphine don’t read too much into it …

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

(d) Its the Dauphine don’t read too much into it …

(d) is already taken by a suggestion from kingjr.
so it would have to be (e), but as a serious answer to a question from the overreaction sphere, I guess it falls under the Vino option?

 

[Rackham]

Pogi rode paniagua today and you know what? This was a darn good performance.

Painiagua (pain and water) is the breakfast of champions. And Pog had both today, aka pain in his legs and lots of water.

The big question is by just how much of a margin can Vinge improve for the Tour. I mean I expected him to be stronger this year and be a serious challenger but this weekend's mountain stages just got a hell of a lot more interesting for neutral cycling fans, that's for sure.

 

[SorelyBoy]

What was up with that rear wheel judder on Pogacar’s bike during the time trial today? Just as he came off the descent? Right at the spot you’d switch on the motor if you had one.

 

[Ripper]

I noticed he drank from his bottle 3 times in a 20 minute effort and did not look comfortable on the bike at all, I think illness/altitude adaptation or depleted blood rather than some fundamental physiological issue.

TC has his eye on the ball here. Might be all of the above.

Also, this is not the tour. Let's wait to see how alien things get. That stands for all three of the big GC guys

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Pogi rode paniagua today and you know what? This was a darn good performance.

Feeling better now?

 

[zlev11]

motor checks today?

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Pogi rode paniagua today and you know what? This was a darn good performance.

And he didn't even drink any water until he reached the climb. I've personally always measured the quality of my rides on how long I could wait before taking my first sip (and then emptying the rest of the bottle pretty quickly afterwards), so it's nice to see the COW (cascades of water) using a similar tactic here. It has however never worked too well for me either.

 

[HashRouge]

What was up with that rear wheel judder on Pogacar’s bike during the time trial today? Just as he came off the descent? Right at the spot you’d switch on the motor if you had one.

It looked like a speed wobble to me but not sure.

 

[red_flanders]

What was up with that rear wheel judder on Pogacar’s bike during the time trial today? Just as he came off the descent? Right at the spot you’d switch on the motor if you had one.

Uh...he went over a manhole cover that kicked his rear end out a bit.