Yeah, in a threshold effort riders will look easy enough before the actually hit the point of exhaustion. And Pogacar giving back 15s on Valmenier if anything may indicate that it wasn't that easy and that he'd done enough in terms of training terms - and you don't get better from submax efforts mind you
Pog held back sth on stage 7 but me and Rick dont think the look was evidence that his reserves were big.
So maybe dont be worried about Rogla victory yet
Only relevant to me in terms of motor-doping tbf. And I agree for sure that Pantani did actually look laboured in those pictures. With Riis on Hautacam, even though he's riding like he's in a video game, you can see that his blood has reached a level of viscosity that might actually be outside the definition of a liquid.The pain face yes or no question isn't something I ever entertained as an actual valid conversation. Gérard Holtz on France 2 one made a ridiculous claim post-Lance that riders were grimacing again unlike during the 'dark years'.
But it's absurd. A/Lance was often hiding his face behind big dark glasses and B/just take a look at him on Luz Ardiden 2003:
That's the face of a man with EPO in his veins... and suffering immensely anyway. Yeah, it still hurts. It's just the performance threshold is higher than non-doped. The pain remained the same.
I have been reading the forums for the last two or three years. I like a lot of the posts, so I'm going to add my thoughts too.
Yup! So a great rider with amazing talent, that has all the tools and all the available things at their disposal in regard to training, equipment and so on. It shows it is possible, indeed. Just like the riders and great legends of the past. Thank you for that post and welcome to the forum.
I think he could have won the Vuelta too, but that would would be extremely greedy and cross a bridge too far.
For sure ... in Dauphine mountain stages after the ITT, he looked like a dude on a Sunday morning that went to buy a baguette and a newspaper, and then, happily, went for a relaxed stroll with the baguette and newspaper in his armpit ... and in the process destroying Jonas and Remco (and other climbers) like they were juniors.
But with recent Pog it's the lack of "suffering immensely" that's the question. Apparently just because he "learned to train."🤣The pain face yes or no question isn't something I ever entertained as an actual valid conversation. Gérard Holtz on France 2 one made a ridiculous claim post-Lance that riders were grimacing again unlike during the 'dark years'.
But it's absurd. A/Lance was often hiding his face behind big dark glasses and B/just take a look at him on Luz Ardiden 2003:
That's the face of a man with EPO in his veins... and suffering immensely anyway. Yeah, it still hurts. It's just the performance threshold is higher than non-doped. The pain remained the same.
Okay, but...drum roll...even if they were just chumps before (if we take your analysis to its natural conclusion), they were still chumps on EPO, GH, insulin, testosterone, reinfused blood, etc. and yet this new Gen Z is crushing them clean. 😏
Great talent but also better understanding of nutrition, training and new/improved equipment. It makes a great difference these days. Upwards and onwards in the development.
This poor guy is trying to say how much he enjoys the racing, the performances, Pogacar's absolutely awesome accomplishments over the last few years,
Sure, but you're speaking as if no other team or rider also understands and practices these better methods. That all the 'marginal gains' available aren't being squeezed out by everyone involved at the highest professional level of the sport. As such, as the science is better understood and implemented across the board, competition should be keener, the margins between the riders at the top 0.1% of the sport very small. Riders who are all incredibly talented, not some chubby weekend club riders from Team Pie. And to be fair, the competition is keen - broadly speaking. Except for Pogacar. He's the outlier. A huge one. Vingegaard can compete at the TDF, maybe, but not across the entire cycling calendar and across the different challenges each of the races offer. Or in terms of the frequency of the races, especially in the spring. In an era of increased specialisation especially, Pogacar looks even more 'odd' statistically speaking. His apparent immunity to human weakness is another oddity. No sickness either. No fatigue - none. His 'in race' posture of not being under any stress. He can flick a switch at any time and away he goes. Speaking of which, his lack of a red zone when attacking is also a major problem. The brutal accelerations too - they fail the eye test in terms of what looks within the abilities of a top level athlete - same as certain other riders who where either caught or who remain under the heaviest of suspicions. Each red light by themselves would be suspicious. Now add in his attachment to Gianetti. All alarm lights are now blinking red. The entire board is red. Houston, we've got a problem.
I appreciate the enjoying the racing aspect and the analysis is doubtless part of the reason for today's performances. However, it's also an apology for today's performances. The cest pool of doping, whether one wishes to ignore it or think it has been resolved, isn't irrilevant to the unfathonable level obtained. Otherwise they have figured out how to square the circle, but who could believe that? As this is the doping thread, we cynics have an opportunity to get in there and question, debate, tear the philosophical guts out the issues involving doping and thus performances. Each chooses a target for different reasons. Some out of annoyance, some out of fear and loathing, others with a more detached sentiment because it just looks grotesque (even when the entertainment factor is still there, or perhaps because it looks grotesque and therefore irresistable). So let the Pog- lovers relish in the defeat of the Pog-doubters, as shall likely be the outcome, and then everybody can go back to the race analysis threads and discuss what happened, how and why purely for the enjoyment of cycling. We all do. Then it's back to the doping thread and the cycle begins anew. Welcome to cycling fanfair.
It reflects a general truism as stated by Greg Lemond. "It never gets easier; you just go faster."
If you see the same guy going in and out the vault with pallets of gold bars in broad daylight whilst passing every security check infront of guards and police all year, would you think that he is a thief?
I'd assume the guy owns the bank.
Facebook
Twitter
Instagram