Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[Gingivitis]

my science teacher once told me: we should attempt to falsify all presumptions.

how did Pogačar look on Stage 11 2024 when he was clearly on the limit trying to distance Vingegaard and ultimately failed, so much that he could not win 1 vs 1 sprint that he wins all the time ? Body language and facial expressions should indicate some pain and discomfort if he was on max level trying to get away.

 

[Unchained]

This is my civil, respectful, responsible blanket, attempt to a catch all response. Multiple current professionals, including people from Visma, Soudal, FDJ, Astana have made comments about Pogacar achievement levels.
All have said generally that he is simply superior currently.
Cycling News and all other outlets who are monetized through subscribers, advertising and ability to produce current, accurate media content about bike racing have spent almost zero effort in accusing Pogacar or UAE of cheating.
Instead majority have echoed greats like LeMond, Merckx, Froome, list is long and current staff and riders saying that Pogacar 's level of performance is positive... at historic level. ( omitted Armstrong intentionally)
It obvious angers many the disproportionate positivity surrounding Pogacar by posing questions about biological manipulation, drug use, hidden devices in wheels, body and bicycle of current champion.
I accept that, and often ,too often ask for proof of any kind and are met with widespread current acceptance that being sceptical is healthy and good.
TDF will start and I will keep in mind that an overwhelming world wide majority think what Pogacar is attempting to accomplish is significant and great for the sport.
Also recognized is the intense frustration from those wanting Pogacar to be held to their standards, instead of the establishment.. Like law enforcement and UCI, race organizations and individual cycling federations who are all currently satisfied with all things Pogacar, from his urine, equipment, training techniques and pre and post race evaluations looking for anything abnormal.
I will enjoy the racing and know all the time that just the presence, participation of Pogacar has many people furious.. Just life.
Another assumption I make daily is that UAE and Pogacar have little concern about what is said or done by detractors. Looks like UAE is winning battles on the road as well as media.

 

[hrotha]

What is someone who wants to beat Eddy Merckx legacy supposed to do ?

Well I guess that someone must get ready for the wee wee

 

[Lorzenz08]

Well I guess that someone must get ready for the wee wee

I mean what is the alternative ?

You said " have the decendy to lose now and then ". He will lose and already lost many times. At the macro level he lost 2 years in a row the TdF.
And at the micro level he lost big time the TT for example.

Also, what is helping Pogi image compared to Froome is that the competitor is Jumbo and Vingegaard. It is not really a David and Goliath situation. Both are Goliath.

 

[Fatclimber]

Well I guess that someone must get ready for the wee wee

Or a punch to the kidney.

 

[Gianetti_Is_The_Goat]

Also, what is helping Pogi image compared to Froome is that the competitor is Jumbo and Vingegaard. It is not really a David and Goliath situation. Both are Goliath.

Is that the Vingegaard who has never reached the podium of a one day race except for his victory at the Dröme Classic in 2022?

 

[Lorzenz08]

Is that the Vingegaard who has never reached the podium of a one day race except for his victory at the Dröme Classic in 2022?

The Vingegaard who put 3 minutes in one stage in 2022 and 5 minutes in 1 stage im 2023.

For one day races, MVDP is regarded as the Monument Goliath.

 

[Unchained]

View: https://m.youtube.com/shorts/XnZ1CbVGEak

 

[Unchained]

View: https://m.youtube.com/shorts/XXZUmq4h-wM

 

[Unchained]

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8cO8Ckp3CL0&pp=ygUWZWRkeSBtZXJja3ggb24gcG9nYWNhcg%3D%3D

 

[ontheroad]

I think that Pogacar might tone it down a bit but will still do enough to win the race. He might even break into a sweat, possibly even a grimace and may even get out of the saddle occasionally. If Vingegaard has upped his preparation from last year though we could be in for something stratospheric and we might see the true limit of Pogs capabilities. It could be 15+ minutes back to third if Vingegaard comes armed to the teeth ready for a gun fight.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

I think that Pogacar might tone it down a bit but will still do enough to win the race. He might even break into a sweat, possibly even a grimace and may even get out of the saddle occasionally. If Vingegaard has upped his preparation from last year though we could be in for something stratospheric and we might see the true limit of Pogs capabilities. It could be 15+ minutes back to third if Vingegaard comes armed to the teeth ready for a gun fight.

The closer the mutants are the greater the gap to the 3rd will be. In the most extreme case they will put the whole peleton out of time limit...

 

[Red Rick]

The closer the mutants are the greater the gap to the 3rd will be. In the most extreme case they will put the whole peleton out of time limit...

Nah if they actually get super close to each other the will actually surplace a lot against each other, and you get Roglic doing his best Carlos Rodriguez impersonation.

I'm trying to convince Pogacar via tiktok that gifting Roglic the Tour de France this way would be the ultimate sign of disrespect.

 

[Peyroteo94]

The closer the mutants are the greater the gap to the 3rd will be. In the most extreme case they will put the whole peleton out of time limit...

It's really the opposite. If they are even, they will slow down a lot of times and other riders will comeback (a little bit like Joux Plane).

 

[Gratemans]

This is my civil, respectful, responsible blanket, attempt to a catch all response. Multiple current professionals, including people from Visma, Soudal, FDJ, Astana have made comments about Pogacar achievement levels.
All have said generally that he is simply superior currently.
Cycling News and all other outlets who are monetized through subscribers, advertising and ability to produce current, accurate media content about bike racing have spent almost zero effort in accusing Pogacar or UAE of cheating.
Instead majority have echoed greats like LeMond, Merckx, Froome, list is long and current staff and riders saying that Pogacar 's level of performance is positive... at historic level. ( omitted Armstrong intentionally)
It obvious angers many the disproportionate positivity surrounding Pogacar by posing questions about biological manipulation, drug use, hidden devices in wheels, body and bicycle of current champion.
I accept that, and often ,too often ask for proof of any kind and are met with widespread current acceptance that being sceptical is healthy and good.
TDF will start and I will keep in mind that an overwhelming world wide majority think what Pogacar is attempting to accomplish is significant and great for the sport.
Also recognized is the intense frustration from those wanting Pogacar to be held to their standards, instead of the establishment.. Like law enforcement and UCI, race organizations and individual cycling federations who are all currently satisfied with all things Pogacar, from his urine, equipment, training techniques and pre and post race evaluations looking for anything abnormal.
I will enjoy the racing and know all the time that just the presence, participation of Pogacar has many people furious.. Just life.
Another assumption I make daily is that UAE and Pogacar have little concern about what is said or done by detractors. Looks like UAE is winning battles on the road as well as media.

In my previous post, I asked for some empathy. You know: at least make the effort to try and understand where me and other people are coming from. Well, that obviously fell on deaf ears..
Because all I read in your post is a repeat of the Armstrong defense, without actually answering or engaging me or others.

 

[Gratemans]

Come to think of it (I don't want to open a whole new thread about it): maybe some people can't understand that there are people that are big fans of cycling, without being big fans of certain riders? I mean, I have a soft spot for a couple of riders of course, but I wouldn't ever call myself a fan. And if someone accused a rider I like of doping, I wouldn't be bothered at all.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Nah if they actually get super close to each other the will actually surplace a lot against each other, and you get Roglic doing his best Carlos Rodriguez impersonation.

I'm trying to convince Pogacar via tiktok that gifting Roglic the Tour de France this way would be the ultimate sign of disrespect.

It's really the opposite. If they are even, they will slow down a lot of times and other riders will comeback (a little bit like Joux Plane).

I know that if they are just seconds apart and can't drop each other it will be kinda tactical deadlock and they will not pull. I meant in case one drop another the pace will be huge as long as the GC gap is not that big.

 

[Abedfo]

Sod Le Tour, we all know the Tour of Austria is the biggest race in July. That's what I'll be watching.

 

[Stablo]

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8cO8Ckp3CL0&pp=ygUWZWRkeSBtZXJja3ggb24gcG9nYWNhcg%3D%3D

So what is the point of sharing these videos actually? It's exactly the media frenzy hype, that has also been critisized here over the years. Like his a lot crazier than Lance or Froomey, but never get's the same treatment from media. Don't bite the hand that feeds you. The goat? Yeah goat on a level of peds and program, praise be.

 

[Rackham]

Because I'm lazy I won't do it but someone should really create (another) poll in the main forums in which people are asked about their hype levels for this tour, gauged between 0 & 10.

Due to all of this out of control arms race my own hype is at roughly... 2. And that 2 points is simply because of the forever element of unknown. Stuff can happen. Not just crashes but for example the gendarmerie nationale could pay some of these guys a visit if my tooth fairy really exists. As for the rest? Where to even begin?

Basically with all things being equal and gaps 'respecting' the intrinsic values of the main contenders, this is going to be an almighty borefest from stage 12 onwards. With the first 11 stages being all about the various crashes/incidents/wishful thinking from fans and media narratives, yet by the time the Tour finally starts it'll be over in a split second on Hautacam and then Ventoux for sure. If this one goes the way I think it'll go, people might even become nostalgic of the 2010's. Simply because without 'la glorieuse incertitude du sport' as the French call it, sport is a bad spectacle.

So many genereationaltalents™ breaking through at the same time, breaking records at the same time and putting minutes on each other and 20 minutes on the rest over 3 weeks is just not fun to watch. At all.

If anyone ever wonders why some people come into the clinic here to rant (beyond the obvious moral and regulatory implications surrounding doping) it's because out of control doping ruins my time on the couch watching this race.

 

[peterfin]

This is my civil, respectful, responsible blanket, attempt to a catch all response. Multiple current professionals, including people from Visma, Soudal, FDJ, Astana have made comments about Pogacar achievement levels.
All have said generally that he is simply superior currently.
Cycling News and all other outlets who are monetized through subscribers, advertising and ability to produce current, accurate media content about bike racing have spent almost zero effort in accusing Pogacar or UAE of cheating.
Instead majority have echoed greats like LeMond, Merckx, Froome, list is long and current staff and riders saying that Pogacar 's level of performance is positive... at historic level. ( omitted Armstrong intentionally)
It obvious angers many the disproportionate positivity surrounding Pogacar by posing questions about biological manipulation, drug use, hidden devices in wheels, body and bicycle of current champion.
I accept that, and often ,too often ask for proof of any kind and are met with widespread current acceptance that being sceptical is healthy and good.
TDF will start and I will keep in mind that an overwhelming world wide majority think what Pogacar is attempting to accomplish is significant and great for the sport.
Also recognized is the intense frustration from those wanting Pogacar to be held to their standards, instead of the establishment.. Like law enforcement and UCI, race organizations and individual cycling federations who are all currently satisfied with all things Pogacar, from his urine, equipment, training techniques and pre and post race evaluations looking for anything abnormal.
I will enjoy the racing and know all the time that just the presence, participation of Pogacar has many people furious.. Just life.
Another assumption I make daily is that UAE and Pogacar have little concern about what is said or done by detractors. Looks like UAE is winning battles on the road as well as media.

Your point is exactly the issue that has been covered here at length. What socalled authorities and media say is irrelevant. Most don't benefit from UAE or Pogacar getting caught. What is relevant is the lack of a scientific explantion of the alien results we have seen from top riders and from UAE riders and Pogacar in particular.

 

[Red Rick]

Your point is exactly the issue that has been covered here at length. What socalled authorities and media say is irrelevant. Most don't benefit from UAE or Pogacar getting caught. What is relevant is the lack of a scientific explantion of the alien results we have seen from top riders and from UAE riders and Pogacar in particular.

Hey now, exercise physiologists invented "food" sometime during COVID season

 

[cnort]

The 'new' Pogacar - you know, the one who just does seated attacks - always seems to fiddle with his computer almost immediately after attacking. I think he's switching to a custom dashboard that displays metrics from this thread. The more we post, the faster he goes.

 

[Extinction]

Because I'm lazy I won't do it but someone should really create (another) poll in the main forums in which people are asked about their hype levels for this tour, gauged between 0 & 10.

Due to all of this out of control arms race my own hype is at roughly... 2. And that 2 points is simply because of the forever element of unknown. Stuff can happen. Not just crashes but for example the gendarmerie nationale could pay some of these guys a visit if my tooth fairy really exists. As for the rest? Where to even begin?

Basically with all things being equal and gaps 'respecting' the intrinsic values of the main contenders, this is going to be an almighty borefest from stage 12 onwards. With the first 11 stages being all about the various crashes/incidents/wishful thinking from fans and media narratives, yet by the time the Tour finally starts it'll be over in a split second on Hautacam and then Ventoux for sure. If this one goes the way I think it'll go, people might even become nostalgic of the 2010's. Simply because without 'la glorieuse incertitude du sport' as the French call it, sport is a bad spectacle.

So many genereationaltalents™ breaking through at the same time, breaking records at the same time and putting minutes on each other and 20 minutes on the rest over 3 weeks is just not fun to watch. At all.

If anyone ever wonders why some people come into the clinic here to rant (beyond the obvious moral and regulatory implications surrounding doping) it's because out of control doping ruins my time on the couch watching this race.

I agree, although another way of looking at it, beyond hype, is what's your level of curiosity? Without curiosity, the mother of intelligence, sport loses appeal. And here I'd give it a 9. Who will survive the first 10 stages and who will not? Will Vingegaard make Pogi's life difficult? Will Evenepole becomes a climbing fiend? Who can burst out in his career? Will the Paris stage mix up the GC, etc.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Hey now, exercise physiologists invented "food" sometime during COVID season

Our renowned experts are missing an obvious explanation: COVID mutations accelerated human evolution and created a few individuals (x-men) representing a new subspecies. It's not Pogi's fault, he's a good boy.