Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[SHAD0W93]

If you see the same guy going in and out the vault with pallets of gold bars in broad daylight whilst passing every security check infront of guards and police all year, would you think that he is a thief?

Sounds like a very successful Payday 2 bank heist on the Xbox 360 or PS3.

 

[pelotonIQ]

I'd assume the guy owns the bank.

Bank owners don't do the physical logistics.

 

[SorelyBoy]

If you see the same guy going in and out the vault with pallets of gold bars in broad daylight whilst passing every security check infront of guards and police all year, would you think that he is a thief?

Depends. Is his first name Mauro?

 

[bollington]

This is my first post, however I've been following this thread for a while. I'm really intrigued, and this is not supposed to be facetious, but why was Chris froome sprayed with piss and people running next to him in doctors outfits, when Pogacar isnt

 

[Fatclimber]

This is my first post, however I've been following this thread for a while. I'm really intrigued, and this is not supposed to be facetious, but why was Chris froome sprayed with piss and people running next to him in doctors outfits, when Pogacar isnt

The old phrase “taking the piss” comes to mind. If you’re questioning the consistency of fans, good luck coming to any sort of meaningful conclusion. MVP had a water bottle thrown at him a couple months ago. Maybe it had pee in it and maybe it was the same fella.

 

[ice&fire]

This is my first post, however I've been following this thread for a while. I'm really intrigued, and this is not supposed to be facetious, but why was Chris froome sprayed with piss and people running next to him in doctors outfits, when Pogacar isnt

a) Froome became world beater suddenly at 26yo after having been pack fodder for a few years
b) There was still recent memory of doping scandals (Puerto and Landis 2006, Rasmussen 2007, Saunier Duval 2008), high profile riders banned (Valverde and Contador 2010-2012) and Lance's downfall (2010-2013)
c) He looked ugly on the bike
d) Any combination of the above

 

[Unchained]

I appreciate the enjoying the racing aspect and the analysis is doubtless part of the reason for today's performances. However, it's also an apology for today's performances. The cest pool of doping, whether one wishes to ignore it or think it has been resolved, isn't irrilevant to the unfathonable level obtained. Otherwise they have figured out how to square the circle, but who could believe that? As this is the doping thread, we cynics have an opportunity to get in there and question, debate, tear the philosophical guts out the issues involving doping and thus performances. Each chooses a target for different reasons. Some out of annoyance, some out of fear and loathing, others with a more detached sentiment because it just looks grotesque (even when the entertainment factor is still there, or perhaps because it looks grotesque and therefore irresistable). So let the Pog- lovers relish in the defeat of the Pog-doubters, as shall likely be the outcome, and then everybody can go back to the race analysis threads and discuss what happened, how and why purely for the enjoyment of cycling. We all do. Then it's back to the doping thread and the cycle begins anew. Welcome to cycling fanfair.

Yours and the few below, all good, I get it.
Hurt feelings are hurt feelings. Time doesn't heal all wounds, some go deeper than anyone can see.
But while there is still cheating in all sports, from darts, billiards, pigeon racing.. Just a few times... No I take that back.. Please offer up something, even a thimble of proof for Pogacar conviction or investigation..
Anything just a suspicious salt granule size bit of evidence. I will be the first to wear hats, t-shirts, bumper sticker.. Maybe a tattoo about " I should have known " " I was wrong " you choose ...but bitterness is not a basis for baseless accusations..
Now it's seen as evidence about who runs in the street.. Froome got pee, Pog gets flowers and feel good videos about happy kids getting gifted something from the GOAT..again pee tossed at Froome is not evidence against Pogacar...it's just not.. Gotta go it's my 24hour shift in a tree stand, middle of the woods keeping watch for Bigfoot!! He will be found I just know he will, if we just say it and wish really really hard.

 

[YellowSocks]

Yup! So a great rider with amazing talent, that has all the tools and all the available things at their disposal in regard to training, equipment and so on. It shows it is possible, indeed. Just like the riders and great legends of the past. Thank you for that post and welcome to the forum.

This poor guy is trying to say how much he enjoys the racing, the performances, Pogacar's absolutely awesome accomplishments over the last few years,
in response, some silly doping dribble with a pro career that stated in 2017!! And never a problem, only podiums and prize money!!
60% Thunder showing that a love for bike racing, bike racers can still exist within an ugly, dirty, delusional, jaded pool were everything, everyone seen through a foggy lense of doping obsession.
I don't want a early dominant conclusion in just days.. But with all the anti- Pog posters..all steam ahead!!
Win, win and keep winning, knowing that everything Pogacar does positive pisses off a population of doping doubters ..love it.. Redefining ...the agony of defeat!!! Someone wrote that Pogacar going after 10 stages was greedy, but given the army of detractors, go for it..
Gordon Gekko!!! " Greed is good!!! "

Is this how you guys welcome a newcomer? This part of the forum is the only place where these questions can be raised. Consider it a place for pure speculation, a madhouse if you will. Would you debate in an asylum?

 

[Red Rick]

This is my first post, however I've been following this thread for a while. I'm really intrigued, and this is not supposed to be facetious, but why was Chris froome sprayed with piss and people running next to him in doctors outfits, when Pogacar isnt

People aren't rational. They like/dislike first and then make up the reasons after the fact.

Pogacar, when he entered the WT scene, was a super exciting prospect that was super marketable. Basically everyone liked him despite his connections to UAE and Gianetti, and then he beat the evil boring Jumbo in the TdF and everyone loved him suddenly.

It's only several years later now that the decrepit stink and arrogance is on full display, and many have already bought into him.

 

[Ripper]

This poor guy is trying to say how much he enjoys the racing, the performances, Pogacar's absolutely awesome accomplishments over the last few years,
in response, some silly doping dribble with a pro career that stated in 2017!! And never a problem, only podiums and prize money!!
60% Thunder showing that a love for bike racing, bike racers can still exist within an ugly, dirty, delusional, jaded pool were everything, everyone seen through a foggy lense of doping obsession.
I don't want a early dominant conclusion in just days.. But with all the anti- Pog posters..all steam ahead!!
Win, win and keep winning, knowing that everything Pogacar does positive pisses off a population of doping doubters ..love it.. Redefining ...the agony of defeat!!! Someone wrote that Pogacar going after 10 stages was greedy, but given the army of detractors, go for it..
Gordon Gekko!!! " Greed is good!!! "

What the actual are you talking about? I'm genuinely curious, because it seems like you're revelling in people expressing doubt about the legitimacy of a racer's performance, and this might result in some sort of negative stress for them? It's like a version of Schadenfreude, except for none of the posters have had anything anything unfortunate happen.

I mean, honestly, it would seem like doubting athletic performances in today's day and age would be prudent.

 

[Ripper]

I appreciate the enjoying the racing aspect and the analysis is doubtless part of the reason for today's performances. However, it's also an apology for today's performances. The cest pool of doping, whether one wishes to ignore it or think it has been resolved, isn't irrilevant to the unfathonable level obtained. Otherwise they have figured out how to square the circle, but who could believe that? As this is the doping thread, we cynics have an opportunity to get in there and question, debate, tear the philosophical guts out the issues involving doping and thus performances. Each chooses a target for different reasons. Some out of annoyance, some out of fear and loathing, others with a more detached sentiment because it just looks grotesque (even when the entertainment factor is still there, or perhaps because it looks grotesque and therefore irresistable). So let the Pog- lovers relish in the defeat of the Pog-doubters, as shall likely be the outcome, and then everybody can go back to the race analysis threads and discuss what happened, how and why purely for the enjoyment of cycling. We all do. Then it's back to the doping thread and the cycle begins anew. Welcome to cycling fanfair.

And honestly, it's not like doubters of a person's performances are 'defeated' by said performances.

As for pogacr, when things are suspicious, the 'most' suspicious and winningest gets the most attention. Partly what makes this thread so populated is that the performances span nearly the entire season.

 

[Gratemans]

This poor guy is trying to say how much he enjoys the racing, the performances, Pogacar's absolutely awesome accomplishments over the last few years,
in response, some silly doping dribble with a pro career that stated in 2017!! And never a problem, only podiums and prize money!!
60% Thunder showing that a love for bike racing, bike racers can still exist within an ugly, dirty, delusional, jaded pool were everything, everyone seen through a foggy lense of doping obsession.
I don't want a early dominant conclusion in just days.. But with all the anti- Pog posters..all steam ahead!!
Win, win and keep winning, knowing that everything Pogacar does positive pisses off a population of doping doubters ..love it.. Redefining ...the agony of defeat!!! Someone wrote that Pogacar going after 10 stages was greedy, but given the army of detractors, go for it..
Gordon Gekko!!! " Greed is good!!! "

I know it's out of bounds to ask, but instead lets me just say that I, in general, wonder what your age is. Because you seem to be missing the historical context of our scepticism. It's got nothing to do with individual riders. It's got nothing to do with who we may favor or not.
I really don't think there's a lot in this section of the forum that has any hate towards Pogacar or any rider in particular. Most people here, as I read them at least, are fans of cycling in general, and have been so for decades. We've been through the motions though. We've seen doping happen. Again, and again and again.

"There's no hard evidence!" No. But it's been spelled out to you many times: there never is, until they get caught. But - and I'm going to repeat myself here just to try to get through to you - we're not only talking about Pogacar. The Vingegaard 2023 TT was also ridiculous.

At the very leat, try some empathy. Try to see it from a different point of view. You might still come out saying everybody is clean nowadays but at least try to understand why we think the way we do. I, for one, can promise you hand on heart, that it's got nothing to do with whatever rider I like or not. I just can't believe what I'm seeing.

 

[Extinction]

Yours and the few below, all good, I get it.
Hurt feelings are hurt feelings. Time doesn't heal all wounds, some go deeper than anyone can see.
But while there is still cheating in all sports, from darts, billiards, pigeon racing.. Just a few times... No I take that back.. Please offer up something, even a thimble of proof for Pogacar conviction or investigation..
Anything just a suspicious salt granule size bit of evidence. I will be the first to wear hats, t-shirts, bumper sticker.. Maybe a tattoo about " I should have known " " I was wrong " you choose ...but bitterness is not a basis for baseless accusations..
Now it's seen as evidence about who runs in the street.. Froome got pee, Pog gets flowers and feel good videos about happy kids getting gifted something from the GOAT..again pee tossed at Froome is not evidence against Pogacar...it's just not.. Gotta go it's my 24hour shift in a tree stand, middle of the woods keeping watch for Bigfoot!! He will be found I just know he will, if we just say it and wish really really hard.

I suppose it's possible to follow the sport for decades and still demand riders get caught to concede that so and so is doping, or that we still need the burden of proof to admit cycling hasn't changed from a decade ago, while the performances of this clean gen keep breaking records from the "dirty era"...but only if one insists on believing in fairy tales. Ripper has clarified why in the reasons of the near past. Systems don't change over night, or even from one gen to the next.

Especially since those who held key managerial positions during those dark times (as opposed to the so-called light of today), like Giannetti (Riccò, Piepoli, Cobo), are now running the team/s of the new and improved mutants. The ridiculous part about your mockery of suspicion on "baseless accusations," is that it's right out of the Armstrong/Bruyneel playbook, precisely because they were driving it home whilst lying through their teeth. Once you've cried the wolf of the cynic you're sorry for, because he just can't believe in miracles, but are then exposed, even the gullible should turn into skeptics moving forward.

However, evidently this isn't the case with those who can't stand that anyone would dare think Pogacar is anything else but JC on two wheels. It's both comical and pathetic to insist on giving the benefit of the doubt to such performances. Well one must admire their tenacity in believing the unbelievable. Gratemans aptly explained why.

As for hurt feelings, I asure you my feelings weren't hurt the whole time I was ridiculed for doubting Armstrong's performances since Sestriere 99, and when he repeatedly triumphed over the also doped competition and the boneheads insisted he was clean, so I'm hardly upset about what Pogacar is doing. That today the press only praises him is merely astonishing, given Giannetti's running of the operation and that for years at the Tour all we got was doping questions directed at the yellow jersey, even Jonas. But not Pogi, go figure with all those petrol dollars flowing into the industry. It thus seems rather that his fanboys get their feelings hurt by anyone who doubts the obvious ridiculousness of the clean narrative, unwilling, despite all the past evidence to the contrary, to even entertain that what they choose to believe might not be true.

 

[Stablo]

As for hurt feelings, I asure you my feelings weren't hurt the whole time I was ridiculed for doubting Armstrong's performances since Sestriere 99, and when he repeatedly triumphed over the also doped competition and the boneheads insisted he was clean, so I'm hardly upset about what Pogacar is doing. That today the press only praises him is merely astonishing, given Giannetti's running of the operation and that for years at the Tour all we got was doping questions directed at the yellow jersey, even Jonas. But not Pogi, go figure with all those petrol dollars flowing into the industry. It thus seems rather that his fanboys get their feelings hurt by anyone who doubts the obvious ridiculousness of the clean narrative, unwilling, despite all the past evidence to the contrary, to even entertain that what they choose to believe might not be true.

Liked the whole post, but at least there's something in the media about pog and his shady backing team.

Dopage, pressions sur les témoins : révélations sur le passé de Mauro Gianetti, le manager de Pogacar

C’est l’un des hommes les plus puissants du cyclisme. Mauro Gianetti est le manager de l’équipe UAE, où évolue Pogacar. C’est aussi un ancien coureur dont la carrière a été entachée par le dopage. Radio France révèle comment il a fait pression sur des témoins à l’époque pour qu’ils ne parlent pas.

www.radiofrance.fr

Nothing really new, but "well" timed and maybe it opens some eyes of the tiktok-generation. Autotranslate worked for the text well, but of course my skills in french didn't allow me to listen the report.

 

[Shakes]

https://archive.is/f29B2

A puff piece on why everything is amazing with Pogacar and UAE. Journalism is at all time low. I am waiting for articles on high cadence as the trick now.

 

[SorelyBoy]

I know it's out of bounds to ask, but instead lets me just say that I, in general, wonder what your age is. Because you seem to be missing the historical context of our scepticism. It's got nothing to do with individual riders. It's got nothing to do with who we may favor or not.
I really don't think there's a lot in this section of the forum that has any hate towards Pogacar or any rider in particular. Most people here, as I read them at least, are fans of cycling in general, and have been so for decades. We've been through the motions though. We've seen doping happen. Again, and again and again.

"There's no hard evidence!" No. But it's been spelled out to you many times: there never is, until they get caught. But - and I'm going to repeat myself here just to try to get through to you - we're not only talking about Pogacar. The Vingegaard 2023 TT was also ridiculous.

At the very leat, try some empathy. Try to see it from a different point of view. You might still come out saying everybody is clean nowadays but at least try to understand why we think the way we do. I, for one, can promise you hand on heart, that it's got nothing to do with whatever rider I like or not. I just can't believe what I'm seeing.

There seems to be some suggestion that our scepticism is irrational and based on, say, a personal animus against said rider and team. Not so. The scepticism is wholly rational. It is based on observation of the sport across many years, on what is understood in terms of the limits of human performance and endurance, what has happened historically in terms of doping scandals. What happened when previous winners who performed apparent miracles were actually found to have feet of clay. And therefore, an understanding of human frailty. And an understanding that history has a nasty habit of repeating itself when new generations make the same mistakes all over again. So given all that, yeah, a lot of us are naturally sceptical. Especially when someone comes along who is a complete outlier, who looks too good to be true. Who seems to defy the laws of gravity and human physiology.

 

[Psycat]

a) Froome became world beater suddenly at 26yo after having been pack fodder for a few years
b) There was still recent memory of doping scandals (Puerto and Landis 2006, Rasmussen 2007, Saunier Duval 2008), high profile riders banned (Valverde and Contador 2010-2012) and Lance's downfall (2010-2013)
c) He looked ugly on the bike
d) Any combination of the above

Could also be that the French and the British have a somewhat strained history.

 

[Le breton]

Liked the whole post, but at least there's something in the media about pog and his shady backing team.

Dopage, pressions sur les témoins : révélations sur le passé de Mauro Gianetti, le manager de Pogacar

C’est l’un des hommes les plus puissants du cyclisme. Mauro Gianetti est le manager de l’équipe UAE, où évolue Pogacar. C’est aussi un ancien coureur dont la carrière a été entachée par le dopage. Radio France révèle comment il a fait pression sur des témoins à l’époque pour qu’ils ne parlent pas.

www.radiofrance.fr

Nothing really new, but "well" timed and maybe it opens some eyes of the tiktok-generation. Autotranslate worked for the text well, but of course my skills in french didn't allow me to listen the report.

Glad you posted this. Saves me the trouble.
That article answered a question I had for over 15 years :
Why doesn't Dr Gremion ever talk about Gianetti anymore.
Blackmail, simple !

 

[Rob5091]

a) Froome became world beater suddenly at 26yo after having been pack fodder for a few years
b) There was still recent memory of doping scandals (Puerto and Landis 2006, Rasmussen 2007, Saunier Duval 2008), high profile riders banned (Valverde and Contador 2010-2012) and Lance's downfall (2010-2013)
c) He looked ugly on the bike
d) Any combination of the above

It got worse after the AAF with salbutamol at the Vuelta in 2017. It didn't help him puffing on his asthma inhaler mid stage at the CdD.

 

[hrotha]

I would add that Pogačar has only been truly Pogačaring it up for a season and a half. He lost the 2023 Tour which was like yesterday. While he emerged many years ago, his domination is a relatively new thing. Froome only got piss on him in 2015. I'm sure the French are already stocking up on beer and other liquids to do the deed if needs be

 

[Red Rick]

I would add that Pogačar has only been truly Pogačaring it up for a season and a half. He lost the 2023 Tour which was like yesterday. While he emerged many years ago, his domination is a relatively new thing. Froome only got piss on him in 2015. I'm sure the French are already stocking up on beer and other liquids to do the deed if needs be

Froome was already largely viewed negatively from before he won the Tour because his ridiculous emergence and the 2012 Tour that Sky won in in a dominant and unwatchable fashion.

And with Pogacar, his popularity seemed to have only skyrocketed by losing the 2023 Tour with all the dumb "I'm done I'm dead" memes.

 

[hrotha]

Froome was already largely viewed negatively from before he won the Tour because his ridiculous emergence and the 2012 Tour that Sky won in in a dominant and unwatchable fashion.

And with Pogacar, his popularity seemed to have only skyrocketed by losing the 2023 Tour with all the dumb "I'm done I'm dead" memes.

Yeah that's the point, in Froome's case it had been building up for a while before it exploded. I suspect the attitude of the French public towards Pogačar will change quickly if he keeps it up at this Tour and subsequent ones and he doesn't even have the decency to lose every now and then for the sake of the narrative

 

[pastronef]

Yeah that's the point, in Froome's case it had been building up for a while before it exploded. I suspect the attitude of the French public towards Pogačar will change quickly if he keeps it up at this Tour and subsequent ones and he doesn't even have the decency to lose every now and then for the sake of the narrative

tbf Sky-Froome had it harder than Pog (and Sir Dave was bashed a lot)
if any Sky did what Pog did in 2024 fans would have stormed Aigle

 

[Extinction]

Liked the whole post, but at least there's something in the media about pog and his shady backing team.

Dopage, pressions sur les témoins : révélations sur le passé de Mauro Gianetti, le manager de Pogacar

C’est l’un des hommes les plus puissants du cyclisme. Mauro Gianetti est le manager de l’équipe UAE, où évolue Pogacar. C’est aussi un ancien coureur dont la carrière a été entachée par le dopage. Radio France révèle comment il a fait pression sur des témoins à l’époque pour qu’ils ne parlent pas.

www.radiofrance.fr

Nothing really new, but "well" timed and maybe it opens some eyes of the tiktok-generation. Autotranslate worked for the text well, but of course my skills in french didn't allow me to listen the report.

Viola, c'est pourquoi j'adore les Français."

 

[Lorzenz08]

Yeah that's the point, in Froome's case it had been building up for a while before it exploded. I suspect the attitude of the French public towards Pogačar will change quickly if he keeps it up at this Tour and subsequent ones and he doesn't even have the decency to lose every now and then for the sake of the narrative

What is someone who wants to beat Eddy Merckx legacy supposed to do ?