Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[ColonelKidneyBeans]

I saw this website when I looked on my own and I tried looking for more that corroborates to no avail. There is not much to read. You said something about 45 day suspension and that it was a U23 race? Where can I read about that?

Nonetheless, I'll give it the benefit of the doubt since the matter was about 50% hematocrit. As far as I know this was when he was a non-pro and in 2002, 50% hematocrit was not considered a positive doping test, the ''punishment'' is a medical suspension for a couple of weeks.

Am I not allowed to add to the rhetorical Visma question? I found it funny that you closed the lid on it and refered me to the Visma thread as soon as I mentioned Niermann.

They are considered as "the bible" on doping on the French side, i trust them but if it's not enough for you they have a contact option, maybe they'll dig their primary source on that?

The 50% limit was a "you overdid it, we know we can't catch you since we have no test, but sit on the bench for a few week and try not to kill yourself next time", the probability of an cyclist being over the 50% limit for EPO use in 2002 is astronomically higher than it being the result of a on-off, non doping related, isolated incident, even more so when you account for plasma expansion in top level athletes due to heavy training loads.

You're perfectly allowed to do that, i've actually answered (and i'm confident almost everyone that think pog is doping here would tell you that they believe Visma are on the sauce too), the rest belongs in the visma thread indeed, but you should not paint me as the one asking you that question, it's pretty basic.

 

[glassmoon]

Did Pogacar test positive?

he's clearly protected superstar as once Lance was... but eventually... miracles can happen

 

[BullsFan22]

There’s been a lot of coping here the last few years. Hope you guys are ready to cope for a few more.

 

[E_F_]

There’s been a lot of coping here the last few years. Hope you guys are ready to cope for a few more.

Aren't you the one coping? With the fact that Pogacar is doped as ***.

 

[dr.eve]

It's not about who is worse. My point was that team staff within professional cycling is filled with personnel that have doped and I brought UAE main rival Visma as a example. Another example is EF education general manager Vaugthers is also an admitted doper.

Ah apologies then I misunderstood. You're right to point those out of course. It only makes it more clear how a rotten culture is still there. Another one is Steven de Jongh of LidlTrek. But there's obviously plenty. But it should not justify it, especially not the likes such as Gianetti.

 

[dr.eve]

Also, Niermann was not caught. He self admitted. That's why he is better than Gianetti. Great? No. Better? Definitely. People with such comments around Niermann and Gianetti are the biggest supporters of Omerta.

Indeed big difference between a self admitter and a Gianetti who sues his doctor who saved his life but exposed him.

 

[Psycat]

Cycling won't make that mistake again. Pog, Remco, Jonas, MVdP et al have brought never seen before worldwide attention, money to the sport again, after being rock bottom after Lance. Lance was a household name but him only. Things like the Netflix show and the increased TV coverage and media coverage is giving lesser names publicity, fame and money that superstars of previous eras could only dream of.

They're all too big to fall and there is too much at stake to go prodding. I'd imagine there is someone tapping them on the shoulder to keep it under reins a little but the show must go on. A few no hopers might get popped just to keep up the facade.

This, they(or atleast Pogacar) are in the Bolt territory of untouchable.

And unlike Armstrong his tiktok version seems generally liked and like a cheerful dude so I am not so sure there will be many former team mates etc waiting to spill the beans.

 

[AlfTupper]

For all of Lance's bad traits at least he only had eyes for Le Tour. I'm also almost certain that Lance would never be able to win the Ronde or PR unless he fully focused on it sacrificing the tour.

Pogacar on the other hand competes in EVERY sub discipline in road cycling, never having a bad day and almost always winning.

I hope Tadej comes to CX so Iserbyt can stamp on his rear derailleur 🤣

Thanks for making me laugh.

 

[Lorzenz08]

Is there anyone else dominating all year around in every road cycling discipline?

Now just a question.

If a cycling talent that only comes every 20-50 years appears. What kind of palmares would you expect ?

 

[E_F_]

Now just a question.

If the secong coming of Christ happens... Blablablablabla...

 

[kingjr]

All the apologists for Pogacar can give us any amount of excuses and explanations for Pogacar’s performance levels. Superior genetics. Superior training. Superior feeding strategies (lol). Zone 2. Seated attack yoga techniques. Yada yada yada. It can all be used to justify, in some people’s eyes, the most ridiculous, credulity busting performances. However, nothing he does will ever remove the stain represented by his affiliation with Mauro Gianetti. No amount of brilliant white sports washing (copyright UAE) will ever take it away. Every win, every performance will have to be accompanied with that huge asterisk. And with it the eternal doubt that any of it was real.

That's true in general, though, and wouldn't be any different without Pogačar.

 

[Lorzenz08]

So after Contador you decided to take a sure bet for fandom? I was a big fan of Alberto, it started when he was fighting the chicken and got all my respect after beating Pharmastrong. So for me it's really hard to understand why are you know supporting pog, who is way worse in the cheating part than Lance ever was. Alberto wasn't clean either, but he was not even in the same solar system than teddy, lol. He was human!

Pogi is just a one in a century talent.


You could give 10x the amount of doping that Pogi receives to Pantani, he would never finish Paris Roubaix within the top 30.

Same with Armstrong he would not finish Paris Roubaix or RVV within the top 10. No matter how much doping.

This is the proof it is something else than doping. He is just incredibly talented.

 

[kingjr]

Mate you can't compare Lance to Pogacar. Lance was good once a year, not every bloody raceday for the last 2 years in GT's, classics, week stage races ect.

I remember when that argument was used against Lance.

 

[Lorzenz08]

Cycling won't make that mistake again. Pog, Remco, Jonas, MVdP et al have brought never seen before worldwide attention, money to the sport again, after being rock bottom after Lance. Lance was a household name but him only. Things like the Netflix show and the increased TV coverage and media coverage is giving lesser names publicity, fame and money that superstars of previous eras could only dream of.

They're all too big to fall and there is too much at stake to go prodding. I'd imagine there is someone tapping them on the shoulder to keep it under reins a little but the show must go on. A few no hopers might get popped just to keep up the facade.

Dude, Pantani or Amrmstrong could dope how much they want, they would never podium Paris Roubaix or RVV in a million years.

Talent is talent.

 

[Lorzenz08]

Mate you can't compare Lance to Pogacar. Lance was good once a year, not every bloody raceday for the last 2 years in GT's, classics, week stage races ect.

Because Lance wasnt as talented.

Give all the doping in the world to Lance, he wouldnt finish top 10 in Paris Roubaix. He is not talented enough.

 

[Lorzenz08]

If the secong coming of Christ happens... Blablablablabla...

So you believe everyone has the same level of talent 🤣

 

[E_F_]

So you believe everyone has the same level of talent 🤣

No? I just don't believe in miracles.

 

[AverageWatts]

What if it's gene doping? In the upcoming decades cyclists(and everything else of course) will be decided by who got the money (and dubious morals) to biologically engineer their offspring, who's to say it doesn't already happen atleast on a moderate scale?

Yes.

Every dirty cyclist in the TdF is doped. Fans are retards and people like Gianetti are genius to make money on gullible stupid people.

 

[Lorzenz08]

No? I just don't believe in miracles.

It is no miracles. It is called being an all time great talent.

Give Pantani 10x his doping, he would still not finish Paris Roubaix within top 30. Not the same talent.

 

[meat puppet]

Now just a question.

If a cycling talent that only comes every 20-50 years appears. What kind of palmares would you expect ?

One with less wins overall and from less diverse races than he has now. It is the age of specialization and professionalism after all.

Love it when discussants toss never measured 100+ml/kg/min vo2maxes derived from mid-tour performances like it ain't no thang.

 

[SorelyBoy]

That's true in general, though, and wouldn't be any different without Pogačar.

No, it’s not true in general and it isn’t fair to everyone else to say so. Gianetti isnt comparable to anyone else in his position in terms of his dark history, and neither is Pogacar in terms of his quite frankly quite ludicrous endurance and performance levels across every type of race. They’re both complete outliers. And they just happen to both be joined at the hip at the same time. Coincidence? I don’t think so.

 

[Psycat]

It is no miracles. It is called being an all time great talent.

Give Pantani 10x his doping, he would still not finish Paris Roubaix within top 30. Not the same talent.

Give him gene doping/motor assistance and he would. Sure I can't say for certain that's whats going on but if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck.

 

[kingjr]

No, it’s not true in general and it isn’t fair to everyone else to say so. Gianetti isnt comparable to anyone else in his position in terms of his dark history, and neither is Pogacar in terms of his quite frankly quite ludicrous endurance and performance levels across every type of race. They’re both complete outliers. And they just happen to both be joined at the hip at the same time. Coincidence? I don’t think so.

Name one rider that wouldn't give you doubts if they won the Tour.

 

[E_F_]

Name one rider that wouldn't give you doubts if they won the Tour.

??? Winning the Tour without being doped?

 

[Lorzenz08]

Give him gene doping/motor assistance and he would. Sure I can't say for certain that's whats going on but if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck.

No he would not even with gene doping, maybe with motor assistance but UAE is not the only one who would have access to motor assistance