Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[Lorzenz08]

Being cooked is literally being dropped by the Peloton on the first serious climb. Finishing on the podium isn't being cooked man. Come on.

Ok. If being cooked for one of the best rider of all time is being dropped by the peloton on the first serious climb.
Then what is being cooked looking like for an average rider ? Getting dropped by juniors ? Come on man be serious...

 

[Lorzenz08]

If we listen some of you cycling should invent new rules :
- Any GT winner that finishes more than 2 min in front of the second best should be disqualified.
- Any GT winner that wins a flat classic should be disqualified.
- Any GT winner that doesn't lose a few minutes at least once in the year should be disqualified

 

[Rob5091]

The peloton is faster than ever. Every year.

So fast, that the UCI want to slow it down. Time for a big drug bust, and a "Tour of Renewal"! That'll sort things out ....

 

[Abedfo]

If we listen some of you cycling should invent new rules :
- Any GT winner that finishes more than 2 min in front of the second best should be disqualified.
- Any GT winner that wins a flat classic should be disqualified.
- Any GT winner that doesn't lose a few minutes at least once in the year should be disqualified

Sounds perfectly fair to me.

 

[Stablo]

So, you narrow the period to 24/25 so far? So it fits your narrative.

No you started changing the years after the reasoning didn't fit your narrative anymore. We had been talking of pogs total lunatic level after the winter 23/24, he was crazy even before and with Gianetti&co in the back not beliavable. After only reading this forum for many years, I even registered when it got totally out of hand with pog&gianetti.

This is not only for you, but with the reasoning we see here from some posters, I really have to believe many are quite new to following pro cycling. The context is not there and quite frankly the comparisons/examples made are well a bit off.

 

[AmRacer]

No you started changing the years after the reasoning didn't fit your narrative anymore. We had been talking of pogs total lunatic level after the winter 23/24, he was crazy even before and with Gianetti&co in the back not beliavable. After only reading this forum for many years, I even registered when it got totally out of hand with pog&gianetti.

This is not only for you, but with the reasoning we see here from some posters, I really have to believe many are quite new to following pro cycling. The context is not there and quite frankly the comparisons/examples made are well a bit off.

It was you wanted a date span fitting your narrative first.
And you don't recognise MvDP, Remco and Jonas wins.

 

[Blobs]

So, you narrow the period to 24/25 so far? So it fits your narrative.

If what you're talking about is Pog's insane jump in level for the '24 season, then it clearly doesn't make sense to bring up the previous seasons.

It would be the same as if, ten years ago, Froome apologists had said: "Of course he isn't doping. Look how bad his results were in 2010!". That's clearly besides the point.

 

[DONCA]

The name of the shady ineos masseur who was operating with doping doctor mark s has been revelead. It is David Rozman and surprise suprise there are several connections between him and some slovenian UAE employes like Andrej Hauptmann - Boštjan Kavčnik and Jan Polanc. Just check his IG Profiles and you will find many connections to UAE and the Pogi Team.

Paul Kimmage: Revealing the links between the Team Sky masseur and a convicted doping doctor at the Tour de France

It was late last Sunday evening when Sebastian Krause arrived in Lille. He had taken a flight from Munich, and a train from Paris and left first thing the next morning in a car to Dunkirk.

www.independent.ie

 

[Stablo]

It was you wanted a date span fitting your narrative first.
And you don't recognise MvDP, Remco and Jonas wins.

No I/we here have been mostly talking about the last two seasons, when it has gotten super ridicilous. How hard can it be to understand, it's not that complicated. Of course I recognise others wins too, when have I said I don't. Seriously starting to question your reading comprehension.

 

[Stablo]

If what you're talking about is Pog's insane jump in level for the '24 season, then it clearly doesn't make sense to bring up the previous seasons.

It would be the same as if, ten years ago, Froome apologists had said: "Of course he isn't doping. Look how bad his results were in 2010!". That's clearly besides the point.

This is 100% what I have also been saying, but somehow get attacked with oneliners again and again, even thought it's not a difficult point and also actually based on pure facts about the performances of the riders. Not even been accusing a lot of pog about anything just know😅just stating that the results and the performances are really not even comparable.

 

[Peyroteo94]

There is zero doubt in my mind, the huge leap Pogacar took between 2023 and 2024 is related with having a new coach and way less a new doping program.
He really started doing things he never did before. Heat training and strenght training. These are facts.

 

[AmRacer]

No I/we here have been mostly talking about the last two seasons, when it has gotten super ridicilous. How hard can it be to understand, it's not that complicated. Of course I recognise others wins too, when have I said I don't. Seriously starting to question your reading comprehension.

Fitting your narrative that is. Don't you think Mathieu and Remco have done amazing things? And Jonas comeback from his near death experience?

 

[ColonelKidneyBeans]

There is zero doubt in my mind, the huge leap Pogacar took between 2023 and 2024 is related with having a new coach and way less a new doping program.
He really started doing things he never did before. Heat training and strenght training. These are facts.

Just because they said so does not make it a fact (I mean Gianetti and co lying? That would be unprecedented, how dare they?)

 

[ColonelKidneyBeans]

Fitting your narrative that is. Don't you think Mathieu and Remco have done amazing things? And Jonas comeback from his near death experience?

Whataboutism and false equivalences, do you have anything else?

 

[SorelyBoy]

There is zero doubt in my mind, the huge leap Pogacar took between 2023 and 2024 is related with having a new coach and way less a new doping program.
He really started doing things he never did before. Heat training and strenght training. These are facts.

Zero doubt huh? Here’s some case for doubt. Two words none of the Pogacar apologists can get around: Mauro Gianetti. The old leopard doesn’t change his spots. Never has. Case closed.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Zero doubt huh? Here’s some case for doubt. Two words none of the Pogacar apologists can get around: Mauro Gianetti. The old leopard doesn’t change his spots. Never has. Case closed.

In 2023, Mauro was in UAE so this argument is not great.

 

[Blobs]

There is zero doubt in my mind, the huge leap Pogacar took between 2023 and 2024 is related with having a new coach and way less a new doping program.
He really started doing things he never did before. Heat training and strenght training. These are facts.

It doesn't add up. Strength training, heat training and some different intervals, do not account for a 10% increase in power. It's the law of diminishing returns. When you're already training a lot, the benefits of increased and/or optimized training get smaller and smaller. The only thing that could explain such a leap would be hugely increase volume, as in doubled or tripled even, and there obviously wasn't room for that.

 

[ColonelKidneyBeans]

It doesn't add up. Strength training, heat training and some different intervals, do not account for a 10% increase in power. It's the law of diminishing returns. When you're already training a lot, the benefits of increased and/or optimized training get smaller and smaller. The only thing that could explain such a leap would be hugely increase volume, as in doubled or tripled even, and there obviously wasn't room for that.

The narrative switch from "San millan is a genius!!!" to "He's a fraud, thank god for Sola!!!" is kinda hilarious tbf.

 

[ahsoe]

In 2023, Mauro was in UAE so this argument is not great.

Yes, and in 2023 he could have introduced a new doping regime/product or increased the existing one.
I find the argument very good.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Yes, and in 2023 he could have introduced a new doping regime/product or increased the existing one.
I find the argument very good.

And until 2023 they were using a mediocre doping program... please, they are fully doping at the highest level since 2020 (at least)

 

[ahsoe]

And until 2023 they were using a mediocre doping program... please, they are fully doping at the highest level since 2020 (at least)

No, I never said that.
Of course they are fully doping. But maybe not pushing the boundaries beyond the extreme.

 

[Peyroteo94]

No, I never said that.
Of course they are fully doping. But maybe not pushing the boundaries beyond the extreme.

Lol. Believe in what you want.

 

[E_F_]

Much more likely that they've come onto a new method of doping, than them having trained like morons for no reason.

 

[ahsoe]

Lol. Believe in what you want.

Good argument.

Mauro Gianetti has one of the most talented young riders of his generation and a doping programme that helps him and his team mates along with great success.
Maybe they did not need to push the boundaries with Pogacar because he is that good. But after getting beaten by Vingegaard for a couple of years they tweak/increase their programme or introduce new substances.

I don't find that too far fetched to believe.

 

[Lorzenz08]

Pogi again 1 vs Visma.

And people still wonder why we are supporting him like if we support Lance or Froome.