Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[SorelyBoy]

You're sure about that? https://rmcsport.bfmtv.com/cyclisme...ons-de-douter-de-pogacar_AV-202107150148.html

« Je demande qu’il publie ses paramètres » : Jean-René Bernaudeau réclame plus de clarté face aux suspicions sur les performances exceptionnelles de Tadej Pogacar

Jean-René Bernaudeau, directeur de l’équipe TotalEnergies, a lancé un appel à Tadej Pogacar dans une interview à RMC Sport, l’invitant à partager ses données de course pour mettre fin à toute spéculation sur ses performances hors du commun.

www.sudinfo.be

That’s equivalent to shots being fired. Although it’s almost inevitable I should think. You think other cycling teams are happy with what UAE and Pogacar are doing? Their sponsors? The rumours have been circulating through the peloton since his time trial in 2020.

 

[dr.eve]

Oligarch-based? That's old news - Tinkov has been and gone.

Hahaha fair enough 😂

 

[meat puppet]

Oxygen is a small molecule that diffuses across the cell membrane in a passive process, which means that to transfer oxygen into the cells you need a difference in concentration. If you have more machinery in the cells that uses all the oxygen, you get less in the cells and thus you transport more into the cells even if you have the same amount of oxygen in your own blood.

I base this on absolutely nothing but my understanding of exercise physiology from studying it 8 years ago.

The part of the theory I struggle with is what downside it has because if it has no downside it would happen naturally due to evolution alone.

Thanks! My admittedly limited understanding is that what you described relates to diffusion of oxygen into the muscle. It is indeed a real variable and improving it can enhance performance to an extent. I alluded to this upthread, but emphasized mitochondrial volume. However, generally speaking the main constraint is related to cardiac output and or hemoglobin mass, ie delivery of oxygen that then gets diffused.

Either way, it is an interesting question how they increase vo2max enough to make the sky era riders look pedestrian and yet do not trigger the passport.

 

[Ripper]

It's a joke. He wrote Denmark twice in his original post.

Indeed, and that was kind of funny. I was referring to the poster you were responding to though, and what they seemed to find delight in.

 

[dr.eve]

You already have stuff like inclisiran (for familial hypercholesterolemia) or patisiran available in the UE right at your local pharmacy.
The delivery is more or less sorted out, it isn't actually that complicated, mainly it is achieved by conjugating the siRNA with another small molecule that has a tropism for the target organ (like GalNac for liver targeting, see inclisiran) the biggest hurdle was to make the RNA stable enough (resistant to the degradation from the body nuclease enzymes mainly), which is achieved by using modified nucleotides (inclisiran uses a mix of methyl, fluoro and deoxy nucleotides iirc).
Reading the summary of product characteristics of Leqvio (the commercial name of inclisiran) is actually quite interesting, on the PK section of the document, they claim that "concentrations reached undetectable levels after 48h" but at the same time the drug achieves a ~50% reduction in LDL-C from baseline more than 180 days after a single dose.

Super interesting and probably we are off topic now. But the delivery is very much a major hurdle still. You named GalNac rightfully but it's almost the only succesfull example. Where I work we have an ASO in trials that is untargeted, like the majority. Often that still works but it's of course less preferred. Looking at the kidney for example, you have natural accumulation of ASO's mainly in the liver and kidney, for the kidney this restricts to mainly one part, getting it to other cell types in the kidney is extremely difficult thus far. Same can be said for several other organs. Targeting specific cell types in an solid organ is a challenge.

To bring it back on topic: i do not think the delivery challenges are an obstacle in making RNA therapies useful for doping. Untargeted RNA therapies can easily do the job for several pathways that can be altered that way and having physiological benefits. If it's healthy is another thing.

 

[Abedfo]

The GOAT strikes again. Woooo. Jesus wept.

 

[MartinGT]

Pissing my bollocks off. I was at my brother's today and he had the final 50km on. How does Kelly et Al keep a straight face when commentating?

 

[AttaqueDeRolland]

I know it is bothering a lot of chauvinistic people that someone from a small slavic nation is kicking their butt 😂

I really don't think so. I never saw Rogla get as much stick as Pogi does. Same goes for Sagan. Most people also seem to love Mohoric. I know it's fun for some people to very quickly start thinking and talking about racism and xenophobia, but this is a ridiculous reach, to say the least.

 

[kingjr]

In my case, I really enjoy the fact that he is not from one of the "legacy cycling nations" like Belgium, France, Italy, Denmark, Netherlands, Spain, Denmark.

I know it is bothering a lot of chauvinistic people that someone from a small slavic nation is kicking their butt 😂

You think so? Have you come across any anti-Pogačar statements that stood out to you as also being anti-Slavic?

 

[Jumbo Visma Fan :)]

You think so? Have you come across any anti-Pogačar statements that stood out to you as also being anti-Slavic?

I’m part-Slavic and don’t enjoy the guy, don’t know why anybody would make this issue about race.

 

[ashhutch1997]

I loved watching today's stage, I know I'm just so privileged to be whitenessing greatness. Us cycling fans are so lucky.

 

[SorelyBoy]

I loved watching today's stage, I know I'm just so privileged to be whitenessing greatness. Us cycling fans are so lucky.

Want to buy a bridge?

 

[Cookster15]

I really don't think so. I never saw Rogla get as much stick as Pogi does. Same goes for Sagan. Most people also seem to love Mohoric. I know it's fun for some people to very quickly start thinking and talking about racism and xenophobia, but this is a ridiculous reach, to say the least.

That's simply because they didn't get such results. Rogla is a long way behind Pogacar now and his best was maybe 5 years back. Sagan wasn't a GC rider.

But as mods we look very closely at any comments bordering on racist or xenophobic. Please use the report button if you see any such.

 

[ashhutch1997]

Want to buy a bridge?

Mate I was being sarcastic, it's BS.

 

[Mosul]

I'd like to buy a Breton viaduct

 

[DONCA]

Mathieu van der Poel on losing his yellow jersey and his off-day on Mûr-de-Bretagne:

'I sometimes wonder how everyone else recovers so well'

He knows.....
And the best is yet to come with the mountain stages.
This tdf is so boring and we are just in week one...

 

[Rob5091]

These Danes are turning into real haters, just because the GOAT, the all time blah blah blah, is beating their hero. In the real world of grown ups, it's astonishing ...

https://www.bt.dk/cykling/dopingekspert-saetter-ord-paa-pogacar-det-er-forbloeffende

https://cyclinguptodate.com/cycling...r-3-but-he-has-raised-his-level-maybe-even-10

"It's so crazy what Pogacar has done since 2023. It is understandable if elite athletes raise their level 1, 2 maybe 3%. But it seems that he has raised his level 7, 8, 9 maybe even 10%. It's astonishing - to say the least."

The sports scientist is convinced that the culture has changed in cycling, but he cannot deny that doping has disappeared:

"Just because you don't see that there is doping, it doesn't mean that it isn't there."

 

[SorelyBoy]

Without digressing too far from the thread topic, why has there been so few top contenders from France over the last twenty or thirty years? They’ve produced a few really good nearly men who still had the good grace to look relatively normal, for example Pinot and Bardet. But no one who has given the impression that they’re truly up to the task of winning the Tour or any other huge race. Yet in a nation with the cycling history that France has, surely this is an unprecedented period of ‘failure’. I think the explanation might be simple, that French cyclists don't, as a rule, use PEDs.

 

[Shakes]

Without digressing too far from the thread topic, why has there been so few top contenders from France over the last twenty or thirty years? They’ve produced a few really good nearly men who still had the good grace to look relatively normal, for example Pinot and Bardet. But no one who has given the impression that they’re truly up to the task of winning the Tour or any other huge race. Yet in a nation with the cycling history that France has, surely this is an unprecedented period of ‘failure’. I think the explanation might be simple, that French cyclists don't, as a rule, use PEDs.

I Thought it had to do with criminality of it in the justice system. Getting caught with doping is not criminal but possession or obstructing testing is. Not sure how it relates to other countries but penal code is one, chance of being charged another.

 

[SorelyBoy]

I Thought it had to do with criminality of it in the justice system. Getting caught with doping is not criminal but possession or obstructing testing is. Not sure how it relates to other countries but penal code is one, chance of being charged another.

Possibly. But that merely explains, at least partly, why they probably don’t use PEDs, therefore strengthening the theory. It’s only a theory but given the empirical evidence, I think it’s convincing.

 

[YellowSocks]

I would say it also depends on which teams French riders ride for. Obviously there were dubious French riders.
I don't know if a French rider training and living abroad would escape French law. That's a question I already asked myself.

Edit: besides escaping taxes of course.

 

[Lorzenz08]

I don't understand the people who don't believe Pogi didn't train as good as he should have been until 2023.

Even up to 2023 you could see he was underdevelopped. Even Paul Seixas at 18 looks physically more fit than Pogi at 24.

 

[Stablo]

This was an intresting read.

Inloggen

www.knack.be

Of course the problem is not only with the UAE, but even in the corruption and ethical questions they seem to be the worst. Like with the shadow duo etc. leadership, creme de la creme of cheating/doping history, but surely they are now playing it super clean with the monsta. UCI&Lappartient should also seriously take a look in the mirror or the history might repeat itself.

 

[AlpRaid]

https://cyclinguptodate.com/cycling...r-3-but-he-has-raised-his-level-maybe-even-10

this is my concern. the leap from pre-2024 to 2024-present appears quite stunning. while other (even younger) top riders have stated that they have struggled to improve their wattage ceiling.

 

[Stablo]

https://cyclinguptodate.com/cycling...r-3-but-he-has-raised-his-level-maybe-even-10

this is my concern. the leap from pre-2024 to 2024-present appears quite stunning. while other (even younger) top riders have stated that they have struggled to improve their wattage ceiling.

Very concerning when you also have to remember, that he was already overall the number one cyclist before the winter of 23/24. I saw some estimates on the watts page, that it's even between 10-15% he got better and of course never get's tired on any terrain with continious peak level.