Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[Cagalitroso]

hahahhahahahahahahahah

https://twitter.com/x/status/1945900812460233014

View: https://x.com/itvcycling/status/1945900812460233014

 

[Cookster15]

Indurain made everything on TTs. He didn't demolish others on climbs

With the best TT ever seen in cycling Indurain didn't have to demolish his rivals on climbs - but he certainly could if he wanted to. Ironically one time he did was Hautacam - 1993. On that occasion Indurain demolished his main rival Tony Rominger by over 2 minutes - similar to Vingegaard's time loss today. Also unable to keep up with Big Mig that day was non other than Marco Pantani.

 

[Cookster15]

pre-UAE Pogacar was far from great.

Pre-UAE Pogacar was only 19 years old. Not sure you can use that as a benchmark.

 

[Cookster15]

I don't think it will ever come out unless some disgruntled team member starts talking

Why does it need to be team members? We are talking about it here. Wouldn't rival teams be investigating? Pretty sure the rival team sponsors would want that. Collectively they are losing at least as much in publicity value as UAE are gaining.

 

[burning]

Not really, I am pretty sure most of rival teams were happy with Lance bringing way more money to the sport. Only Jumbo would be disgruntled about UAE right now, and they also have a very checkered doping history as well

 

[b0ydman]

Yeah, it might be hypocritical of someone who wants a totally clean sport to turn a blind eye to everyone spreading a bit of extra butter on their toast, but at the moment it seems like half the peloton is scraping on just enough butter that they feel they can safely get away with saying it's just plain old bread, while most of the other half have come to realise they can keep smearing as many giant blobs of the stuff on as they can afford to and most people will just glance at it and see a normal and unproblematic sandwich. Then there's a select few that are sprinking a couple of breadcrumbs on top of a stick of dynamite and insisting that the abomination you're looking at is still just a totally normal slice of toast.

and you can't help but think some of these guys are holding back plenty in reserve too. Are they even hitting the deep red zones?

 

[Zen Master]

Someone was. That statement was made at the time, and not with the benefit of hindsight.

From the same “oracle” website, an article written just a month before the one about Pogačar.

”We have the privilege of interviewing a lot of talented young riders, many of whom we hope will become the stars of tomorrow. But we have not yet met a rider who goes over cobbles and hills, as well as possessing a sprint and TT like Mikkel Frolich Honoré does…”

Alas, in 2019, Mikkel Honoré decided to sign for Quickstep, and Remco, a true cycling prodigy who was compared to Merckx at the time, made a similar decision. Tadej, on the other hand, decided to sign for Mauro Giannetti’s team. The rest is history…

 

[Rob5091]

The only thing that can stop this, or any top-level team, has been a police raid like Festina or Puerto, which has not happened since Puerto or 2008 Tour if I recall correctly.

This is what I posted a few days ago! We should have a police raid every year - teams can draw lots for who gets raided. It's always the highlight of any Tour!

 

[Cookster15]

Not really, I am pretty sure most of rival teams were happy with Lance bringing way more money to the sport. Only Jumbo would be disgruntled about UAE right now, and they also have a very checkered doping history as well

I don't really buy this. What extra money is UAE bringing to professional cycling outside of Team UAE itself - by a Slovenian? Not like Lance at all who transcended the sport. Can you imagine in litigious America where one team had a known unfair advantage? As for "only Jumbo", what about Red Bull who also sponsor Formula 1 ?

 

[dr.eve]

I don't really buy this. What extra money is UAE bringing to professional cycling outside of Team UAE itself - by a Slovenian? Not like Lance at all who transcended the sport. Can you imagine in litigious America where one team had a known unfair advantage? As for "only Jumbo", what about Red Bull who also sponsor Formula 1 ?

Exactly, you say it well. Lance literally transcended the sport. Sure Pogacar is popular but he also is kind of a non figure outside the sport. And he will never be, Pogacar's sport results are fascinating but whatever he says is actually not. I don't find him charismatic at all.

 

[fenns]

With the best TT ever seen in cycling Indurain didn't have to demolish his rivals on climbs - but he certainly could if he wanted to. Ironically one time he did was Hautacam - 1993. On that occasion Indurain demolished his main rival Tony Rominger by over 2 minutes - similar to Vingegaard's time loss today. Also unable to keep up with Big Mig that day was non other than Marco Pantani.

In his Tour wins he never won a stage unless it was a TT. I found that incredibly dull to watch.

 

[Zen Master]

hahahhahahahahahahahah

https://twitter.com/x/status/1945900812460233014

View: https://x.com/itvcycling/status/1945900812460233014

From the same edition of shameless boasting…

 

[Blobs]

H

When is the last time he had a bad day? 2023 Worlds TT? Or if you think that does not matter, Courchevel 2023?
I think he has been on the podium of every race he has done since 2023 Lombardia with the exception of 2024 Quebec.
And he races from February/March to October. On all kinds of races.

His fans will say he does have bad days, and then give examples where he finished 2nd, in the same time as the winner.

 

[dacooley]

I think had any magical secret existed, it would've been exposed and put in use by other teams a long ago. The core of the edge he has comes down to sheer natural ability. Even if is there are some tricky things involved, UCI will never touch him.

 

[Gianetti_Is_The_Goat]

Pre-UAE Pogacar was only 19 years old. Not sure you can use that as a benchmark.

Then why are people calling him extremely talented? Based on what period and performances exactly?

 

[Cookster15]

In his Tour wins he never won a stage unless it was a TT. I found that incredibly dull to watch.

Agree it was dull but I grew to respect his immense strength. In 1993, 94 and 95 I was rooting for Rominger to topple him. Only 93 was a contest but the horse had bolted when Tony's team had a disastrous TTT. But as I said Indurain didn't have to win in mountains but certainly could as he demonstrated on Hautacam and on other occasions I am certain.

 

[Cookster15]

Then why are people calling him extremely talented? Based on what period and performances exactly?

I don't know. But aren't you the OP? You can't refer to lack of results at 19 I am vaguely certain there is sports science that backs me up on this. Also simply knowing every person has different physiology and matures at different ages. If performance when young always correlated Andy Schleck would have won the Tour maybe 5 times.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Agree it was dull but I grew to respect his immense strength. In 1993, 94 and 95 I was rooting for Rominger to topple him. Only 93 was a contest but the horse had bolted when Tony's team had a disastrous TTT. But as I said Indurain didn't have to win in mountains but certainly could as he demonstrated on Hautacam and on other occasions I am certain.

In 1995 he had to react to Zulle's threat and had a monster ride on La Plagne crushing all top climbers, who were completely hidden behind him on TV footage.

 

[Blobs]

I think had any magical sected existed, it would've been exposed and put in use by other teams a long ago. The core of the edge he has comes down to sheer natural ability. Even if is there are some tricky things involved, UCI will never touch him.

Why do you think his natural ability increased so much in 2024?

 

[fenns]

When is the last time he had a bad day? 2023 Worlds TT? Or if you think that does not matter, Courchevel 2023?
I think he has been on the podium of every race he has done since 2023 Lombardia with the exception of 2024 Quebec.
And he races from February/March to October. On all kinds of races.

As suspicious as he may be at least he does turn out all year - like Ingebrigtsen and Duplantis. I find it harder to stomach the track and field athletes who appear just to win major champs - but are nowhere else to be seen - and the great post-Badger cyclists racing seriously for only 2 months a year, or the tennis champs who vanish injured for months then come back better than ever.

 

[Blobs]

As suspicious as he may be at least he does turn out all year - like Ingebrigtsen and Duplantis. I find it harder to stomach the track and field athletes who appear just to win major champs - but are nowhere else to be seen - and the great post-Badger cyclists racing seriously for only 2 months a year, or the tennis champs who vanish injured for months then come back better than ever.

That makes it more suspicious though. You should experience way more fatigue from a grand tour, than 3 minutes of running or pole vaulting, and yet all season, he's as fresh a a pole vaulter.

 

[Gianetti_Is_The_Goat]

I don't know. But arn'y you the OP? You can't refer to lack of results at 19 I am vaguely certain there is sports science that backs me up on this. Also simply mowing every person has different physiology and matures at different ages. If performance when young always correlated Andy Schelck would have won the Tour maybe 5 times.

Fair enough, but then we have to return to the facts: a slight above average U23 cyclist joined two of the greatest frauds in cycling history and became a near unbeatable monster all year around on all terrain.

 

[dr.eve]

As suspicious as he may be at least he does turn out all year - like Ingebrigtsen and Duplantis. I find it harder to stomach the track and field athletes who appear just to win major champs - but are nowhere else to be seen - and the great post-Badger cyclists racing seriously for only 2 months a year, or the tennis champs who vanish injured for months then come back better than ever.

I get what you mean however the turning out all year on top level without getting any significant fatigue is what makes it suspicious... I see people often bringing up this argument as to why Pogacar is great and all, but for me that is actually one of the two main reasons I find him suspicious. The other one obviously is Mr. Gianetti and co.

 

[fenns]

That makes it more suspicious though. You should experience way more fatigue from a grand tour, than 3 minutes of running or pole vaulting, and yet all season, he's as fresh a a pole vaulter.

It's the training where the work is done - not the actual event.

I am more suspicious of those who spend the year "training" then pop up to crush the big event (like Lance Armstrong). Wait until the World Athletics Champs in September - there will be the Ingebrigtsens and Duplantises - but then you'll have the Americans (and others) who've barely been seen all year then win gold only to disappear again. It's painfully obvious to me that too much in-competition testing messes with their "training"

But then you have Slovenia producing 2 cycling greats out of nowhere,

There are various factors that seem to either prove or mitigate foul play - but I see frequent competition as being something in an athlete's favour.

 

[Stablo]

Fair enough, but then we have to return to the facts: a slight above average U23 cyclist joined two of the greatest frauds in cycling history and became a near unbeatable monster all year around on all terrain.

This is the simple fact that's not even up for a debate. I could maybe accept his level before 23/24 winter, but even then the backround and level was making me very very skeptical. After that magical winter it has just become beyond hilarious. We also have to remember, that if Vinge&Visma would not haved upped their "game" too, pog would be now cruising on autopilot towards the 6th Tour title! In the modern highly professional and competitive peloton, think about that all. What a joke this has become.