Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[gregrowlerson]

Just dropping by to see the posts. More coming soon, I'm sure.

I've only just flicked back to the start. Ten pages to get through!

 

[meat puppet]

What a pisstake the ride was. Hilarious.

So in the spirit of speculation: The passport intends to establish what is natural to an individual. Could one trick be to shoot for establishing a combo of doped values that nonetheless do not produce passport flags as normal when the athlete enters the passport system? That way one could perhaps have more leeway as a pro. Would this be possible?

This would of course imply doping as a junior.

One thing that strikes me as a viewer is that pogi is not from the rail-thin schleck, Wiggins, froomesque mold. Quite the opposite really, even has muscle mass on him.

Please, quit the geography ot. I don't think anyone is seriously implying that pogi is doped more just because of his background (or by extension because soviet russia), so no need to defend against this either. Anyway, it clogs the thread and adds very little.

 

[topt]

Look kiddo, I understand that you get very angry because people are questioning your local Lance boy(btw that is the reason of this section if you dont like it dont come) and to be fair everybody must be presumed innocent until the contrary is demonstrated, no matter how Pantani-esque the performance may be, but you have to stop with the charade , you are embarrassing yourself.

Go,read Slavo> https://quod.lib.umich.edu/j/jii/4750978.0006.202/--spectre-of-balkan?rgn=main;view=fulltext

Yes, you dont like to be grouped with those "serbs/croats/macedonians" yuk!!, the same way the Serbs dont like to be grouped with the Moldovans, but guess what? Tough luck, everybody considers a FRY country as culturally Balkan and "eastern-european" . People will group Ljubljana with Zagreb, Belgrade, Kiev or Lublin not with Madrid, Amsterdam,Milan or London. When people in the "west" were dealing with John Mayor, Mitterrand or Felipe Gonzalez you have to somehow directly or indirectly deal with Milosevic and before him with Tito, it doesnt get more "Balkan " than that.

BTW I dont know what is your desire to be grouped with the "west" or with a fictional mittel-Europa (as if you have more in common with the Hungarians, Austrians and Germans than with the Croats and Serbs) , be proud of who you are , instead of wishing to be in the same group with the Italians and the English.

oh man you write this and than claim I am embarrasing myself; if you know nothing about history and geography just stay out of it, kiddo
I dont care if people group Slovenia with Serbs and Croats, hell I liked living in Yugoslavia, what I care about is what truth is; Slovenia is NOT part of balkan peninsula https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Balkan_Peninsula.svg
Slovenia is NOT in eastern Europe https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/what-countries-are-in-eastern-europe.html

 

[bNator]

oh man you write this and than claim I am embarrasing myself; if you know nothing about history and geography just stay out of it, kiddo
I dont care if people group Slovenia with Serbs and Croats, hell I liked living in Yugoslavia, what I care about is what truth is; Slovenia is NOT part of balkan peninsula https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Balkan_Peninsula.svg
Slovenia is NOT in eastern Europe https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/what-countries-are-in-eastern-europe.html

Stop with your reasonable arguments, you Soviet he feels the truth, you are merely quoting wiki.

 

[Bolder]

One thing that strikes me as a viewer is that pogi is not from the rail-thin schleck, Wiggins, froomesque mold. Quite the opposite really, even has muscle mass on him.

He's definitely a relatively burly GT rider.

Anyway, it clogs the thread and adds very little.

That's the internet way!

 

[PhiLiz]

This explains it all (sorry if already posted). Does not sound like anything we've heard before:
https://www.businessinsider.com/defending-tour-de-france-champ-freakish-powers-recovery-2021-6

Ah, the damage control after an alien performance. How have we missed those...

 

[hrotha]

It's so funny to see people debate the extent of the Balkan peninsula so vehemently when any look at the map makes it obvious that the boundaries are super vague and depend on subjective, arbitrary definitions. The Balkan peninsula is a super artificial concept y'all. The Balkans are the friends we made along the way.

 

[QuickZulu]

Where was this Formolo at the Giro?
I expect him to be one of the best on a long hilly stage, but that was probably his best climbing performance ever, as a domestique.

The hard race from the start probably helped him and we know that he has a good engine and great endurance, but still...

Plus the fact that after he had turned himself inside out launching Pogacar, he didn't grind to a standstill as usually happens. No, he held on and eventually came in a few seconds behind the Carapaz group of GC riders.

Couldn't believe how strong he was yesterday.

 

[Pirazziattacks]

Plus the fact that after he had turned himself inside out launching Pogacar, he didn't grind to a standstill as usually happens. No, he held on and eventually came in a few seconds behind the Carapaz group of GC riders.

Couldn't believe how strong he was yesterday.

Formolo going from breathing like a stranded fish to easily riding with the other contenders was probably even more absurd than Pogacar's effort. Incredible entertainment.

 

[Netserk]

What a pisstake the ride was. Hilarious.

So in the spirit of speculation: The passport intends to establish what is natural to an individual. Could one trick be to shoot for establishing a combo of doped values that nonetheless do not produce passport flags as normal when the athlete enters the passport system? That way one could perhaps have more leeway as a pro. Would this be possible?

This would of course imply doping as a junior.

I too think that in part explains why it's easier to break through at a young age, and also why the passport had a greater effect on those who had samples in it that backdated it.

Where was this Formolo at the Giro?
I expect him to be one of the best on a long hilly stage, but that was probably his best climbing performance ever, as a domestique.

The hard race from the start probably helped him and we know that he has a good engine and great endurance, but still...

Maybe he needed the Giro to be at his best, and the day before yesterday he finished in the last group (161st), and I think he let go about ~80 km to go. Likewise, I think Majka will be fresh today while Formolo will drop early if there's no panic.

What race did basso win almost everyday without mountains? Denmark?

And it was quite ridiculous that he attacked the peloton in the flat circuits to win solo. It's difficult to even imagine a rider with so little explosivity get away like that.

Slovenia, like it or not, is an Eastern European country. Just like Hungary. But that's just a convenient Cold War way to account for political divisions, in the sense that "Western Europe" orbited around the NATO alliance and "Eastern Europe" around Moscow. I don't think that's in question.

That's not a criteria that allows for a partition of Europe in two sets, but even if it did it'd give a really strange meaning to Western Europe and Eastern Europe. Greece and Turkey as Western Europe, while Slovenia and Hungary are Eastern?? What is Finland (neutral country)? EDIT: Lol, I even forgot about Germany. Is Berlin in Eastern Europe?

It's about as meaningful as a partition of all US states in South and North, where California is a Southern state? What is Hawaii, North or South?

 

[ppanther92]

Protection would not be about Slovenia. It would be about UAE oil money.

Yeah but the team does not look particularly strong apart from Pogacar. Hirschi arguably even quite lost his spark (not necessarily counting the Tour but more the whole season)

 

[Red Rick]

Yeah but the team does not look particularly strong apart from Pogacar. Hirschi arguably even quite lost his spark (not necessarily counting the Tour but more the whole season)

They're working on that a bit.

But if Pogacar is like he is today it just doesn't matter and they know it.

 

[topcat]

Now that's racing. Pogacar was of course jacked up. However, this is much better to watch than Sky train/Jumbo train. All we need is someone to take on Pog. Fit Roglic or anyone from Ineos won't do. We need Padun.
Either that or wada get some morals.

 

[Mr. 64%]

If Pogacar continues the show today, it'll be for the sole purpose of him, feeling the joy of seeing everybody else suffer.

Surely, the wise thing to do would be to go Miguel on 'em, and sit on while the remaining GC contenders duke it out for the scraps and leftovers that are the secondary podium places.

...somehow, i just don't see that happening.

 

[samhocking]

If Pog only needs 1 day recovery instead of 3 like all his rivals, he will have recovered just in time for the finish line today haha!

 

[Poursuivant]

Just popping into the Clinic to discuss the geography of Eastern Europe.

 

[Pantani_lives]

Just popping into the Clinic to discuss the geography of Eastern Europe.

You mean Central Europe?

 

[TMJ]

I'm interested in seeing a whole new riding technique to what we have seen more recently.
Armstrong / Froome would use small gears, but egg whisk legs, constantly spinning at a ridiculously high rate.
We saw yesterday that TP was in a larger gear and peddling more slowly than those guys.
What has changed? What are the new techniques?
Does TP count as an old school 'grinder' pushing big gears on climbs?
Or am I incorrect and incredibly he is doing the egg whisk legs, but in a higher gear?

 

[Netserk]

I'm interested in seeing a whole new riding technique to what we have seen more recently.
Armstrong / Froome would use small gears, but egg whisk legs, constantly spinning at a ridiculously high rate.
We saw yesterday that TP was in a larger gear and peddling more slowly than those guys.
What has changed? What are the new techniques?
Does TP count as an old school 'grinder' pushing big gears on climbs?
Or am I incorrect and incredibly he is doing the egg whisk legs, but in a higher gear?

I don't think his cadence is lower than Armstrong's. IIRC, both climb at ~90 rpm.

 

[Pirazziattacks]

I'm interested in seeing a whole new riding technique to what we have seen more recently.
Armstrong / Froome would use small gears, but egg whisk legs, constantly spinning at a ridiculously high rate.
We saw yesterday that TP was in a larger gear and peddling more slowly than those guys.
What has changed? What are the new techniques?
Does TP count as an old school 'grinder' pushing big gears on climbs?
Or am I incorrect and incredibly he is doing the egg whisk legs, but in a higher gear?

Pogacar wasn't grinding at all, his cadence only dropped in the saddle a couple of times from what I saw. I'd guess his cadence was at least mid 80s most of the time as opposed to Padun who seemed to be going along at about 50 rpm in the saddle at the Dauphine. That's real grinding.

 

[Cookster15]

I don't think his cadence is lower than Armstrong's. IIRC, both climb at ~90 rpm.

Pretty sure Armstrong climbed at closer to 95rpm? But logically (or basic math) if TP is climbing at a similar speed to Lance TP would be lower than 90rpm on average to push the big ring - even on maybe a 27 tooth rear cog.

 

[Riek s]

I'm interested in seeing a whole new riding technique to what we have seen more recently.
Armstrong / Froome would use small gears, but egg whisk legs, constantly spinning at a ridiculously high rate.
We saw yesterday that TP was in a larger gear and peddling more slowly than those guys.
What has changed? What are the new techniques?
Does TP count as an old school 'grinder' pushing big gears on climbs?
Or am I incorrect and incredibly he is doing the egg whisk legs, but in a higher gear?

Well it was tested and using the big chain ring in the front is a bit more efficient compared to a small chain ring with the proper cassette ring. So he is that fast because he uses the margin gains of the big chain ring to ride 3minutes faster than his competitors.
Soon we will see 56T chainrings in the mountains and we all will say damn... if only Armstrong used this way of riding, he would have all the climbing records.

 

[No_Balls]

To be fair to the guy he has 4 TDFs if the freak show Lance didn't turn up.

Yeah but thats the logical nature of competion were corruption is at stake. For the sake of intrests they wont let Pogacar (or anybody) dominate too much because it would endanger the spectacle. So in the case of Ullrich a jacked up Lance showed up with a white paper from UCI.

Pogacars hope is in wheter they need a new ”best rider ever” but in the way he does it, man, it sure will turn people off early on.

 

[topt]

Slovenia, like it or not, is an Eastern European country. Just like Hungary. But that's just a convenient Cold War way to account for political divisions, in the sense that "Western Europe" orbited around the NATO alliance and "Eastern Europe" around Moscow. I don't think that's in question.

I've been to Slovenia on business trips and the western part feels a bit like Western Europe, but the eastern and southern parts are more Balkan feeling. Regardless, I loved it and found Slovenians to be excellent business hosts, very pragmatic in an appealing way!

Back to the immediate topic at hand: We saw an amazing performance yesterday that can be partly explained by rival teams who had been fatally weakened (Ineos, TJV) and had no strategy, and partly by a previous, grueling stage in which TP could have been put under serious pressure but was let off the hook (Movistar?) a bit, putting his rivals on the back foot and giving him a breather.

That said, TP's performance since joining the WT have been...extraterrestrial. But since we don't know what a clean peloton with modern training and equipment looks like, it's going to be all conjecture unless he fails atest or somebody spills the beans...

more disinformation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-Aligned_Movement

 

[solo80k]

Yeah but thats the logical nature of competion were corruption is at stake. For the sake of intrests they wont let Pogacar (or anybody) dominate too much because it would endanger the spectacle.

Not true. They definitely let Sky/Ineos dominate for 6 years, except from 2014 when Froome crashed out. Pogacar can easily win 5-6 times and they won't care.