Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[Salvarani]

If Vingegaard was at his highest ever level this year, as you say, then it's the only logical conclusion.

It was probably similar, compared to the rest of the field, to Plateau de Beille this year, and Pog still destroyed him there.

Combloux is still a completely isolated performance from that.

Gotta take things into context.

 

[Blobs]

Combloux is still a completely isolated performance from that.

Gotta take things into context.

So was PdB this year, if you look at Vingegaards strength relative to the field.

 

[Salvarani]

So was PdB this year, if you look at Vingegaards strength relative to the field.

It still not the same as the ITT, which was shorter and created gaps that is not comparable to a big mountain-stage. His performance was crazy there and a bigger outlier. Again, context.

 

[Raest]

It doesnt beat the Combloux spectacle whatsoever, which says how much of an outlier that performance was.

Again? It has always been there and always will. It is deep-rooted in the sport, like many other endurance sports, to even be able to practice it at an elite/pro level. It is not healthy whatsoever.

It actually does and there is a strong argument for it, but I don't care to make it as effectively I will be arguing for Vingegaard which I don't want to do. Dare I say that the reason you keep making this argument is that it makes you feel better about the rider you support.

 

[ppanther92]

The math is not an opinion. Pogacar's numbers say it all.

In what dimension he adde 33% to his climbing? 🧐

He is not doing 8 W/kg instead of 6 W/kg.

(Yet)

 

[ppanther92]

It's been reported that Tadej Pogačar has a VO2 max of 89.4 ml/kg/min.

Vingegaard's VO2 max at 17 years of age is reported to have been around 97 ml/kg/min.

So Oskar Svendsen is still the best cyclist of all time. Or so.

 

[Extinction]

In what dimension he adde 33% to his climbing? 🧐

He is not doing 8 W/kg instead of 6 W/kg.

(Yet)

When he broke Pantani's record by 3+ minutes.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

When he broke Pantani's record by 3+ minutes.

6.9 w/kg for 40 minutes is max. 10% progress (vs expected ~6.3 w/kg for such duration). Obviously still a big one but not idea where you got those 33% from.

 

[Salvarani]

It actually does and there is a strong argument for it, but I don't care to make it as effectively I will be arguing for Vingegaard which I don't want to do. Dare I say that the reason you keep making this argument is that it makes you feel better about the rider you support.

Nope, think I was speaking in pretty general general terms in my last post. Didnt I?

Just pointed out that the most crazy performance we have seen was last year. Are people wanting to deny it, to feel better about the rider they support?

 

[Extinction]

6.9 w/kg for 40 minutes is max. 10% progress (vs expected ~6.3 w/kg for such duration). Obviously still a big one but not idea where you got those 33% from.

Then consider this: Vingegaard put out better numbers than last year, but not only did Tadej close the 7+ minute deficit to the Dane, but gave him an additional 6+ minutes. Never has paybacks are tough been so true. Obviously 33% is an arbitrary figure for dramatic effect, not something to get nitpicky about (which goes to show the obsession with stats as representative of reality has numbed our brains to truth), but it's not wild exaggeration and aptly depicts the ludicracy of it all.

 

[Salvarani]

6.9 w/kg for 40 minutes is max. 10% progress (vs expected ~6.3 w/kg for such duration). Obviously still a big one but not idea where you got those 33% from.

Making up numbers and then shrugging your shoulders about it is the new norm. Didnt you know?

 

[ppanther92]

When he broke Pantani's record by 3+ minutes.

But based on what? Time, VAM, W/kg, Watt? Nowhere 33% maths out too well.

 

[Extinction]

Making up numbers and then shrugging your shoulders about it is the new norm. Didnt you know?

Gianetti-Matxin know this all too well, they've thrived on it.

 

[Salvarani]

Gianetti-Matxin know this all too well, they've thrived on it.

You seem pretty good at it too

 

[Extinction]

But based on what? Time, VAM, W/kg, Watt? Nowhere 33% maths out too well.

See my post above. I neglected to mention that Pantani's ex-record pertained to the "dirty days", when everyone was jacked on EPO, GH and insuline. Are we to believe that better nutrition, like drinking blueberry juice, and new training is to account for closing the gap and giving some 3+ minutes? There's your "33%" and it's a physiological mystery.

 

[Extinction]

You seem pretty good at it too

I've learned from the best.

 

[Salvarani]

But based on what? Time, VAM, W/kg, Watt? Nowhere 33% maths out too well.

It is new math. Nobody understands it yet.

 

[Extinction]

It is new math. Nobody understands it yet.

Especially you.

 

[Tim Cahill]

I come here to look at a bit of post-race outrage and funny baseless conspiracy theories but all I read nowadays is whataboutism, this isn't the Jonas Vingegaard thread

 

[Invicituz]

I've not seen these, do you have the sources?

I can't vouch for the accuracy of these figures ...

How to recover like a Grand Tour rider:

How to recover like a Grand Tour rider

Lessons and habits from the best Grand Tour riders to boost your rest and recovery routines

www.rouleur.cc

Pogačar's VO2max has been reported at 89.4ml/min/kg.

Chords to cols: How Jonas Vingegaard went from guitars to Grand Tours:

Chords to cols: How Jonas Vingegaard went from guitars to Grand Tours

If he'd followed a music teacher's advice the 2022 Tour de France winner might have ended up starring on a different type of stage

www.cyclingweekly.com

At 17, Jonas’ VO2 max was something around 97.

 

[Salvarani]

Especially you.

Yup, thats right. It just doesnt make any sense. Guess I missed the class where you make up your own numbers and spout it as facts.

 

[Extinction]

Yup, thats right. It just doesnt make any sense. Guess I missed the class where you make up your own numbers and spout it as facts.

What are the facts? Do you know? It seems to me the conspiracy theories are directed at the wrong targets, namely the skeptical fans, and not the corrupt and deceiving gangsters in charge of the sport, its teams and doctors. Records established with the aid of powerful pharmaceuticals are now being smashed like doping never existed. So, again, what are "the facts"?

 

[Salvarani]

What are the facts? Do you know? It seems to me the conspiracy theories are directed at the wrong targets, namely the skeptical fans, and not the corrupt and deceiving gangsters in charge of the sport and its teams. Records established with the aid of powerful pharmaceuticals are now being smashed like doping never existed. So, again, what are "the facts"?

Huh? Im trying to sign up for the new math class. Might be next big thing or it might not.

 

[Extinction]

Huh? Im trying to sign up for the new math class. Might be next big thing or it might not.

It will, without a doubt, don't miss out.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Chords to cols: How Jonas Vingegaard went from guitars to Grand Tours:

Chords to cols: How Jonas Vingegaard went from guitars to Grand Tours

If he'd followed a music teacher's advice the 2022 Tour de France winner might have ended up starring on a different type of stage

www.cyclingweekly.com

While that number is probably BS, we do know that the story about Vingegaard's high VO2 max test in 2018 preceded him ever riding for Visma. He was 21 when that one was carried out, but the exact result is not public knowledge.