Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[Rob5091]

Is there any hope that these drugs will soon be detected and the criminals punished?

30 + people have been punished in the horse racing world (and apparently it crossed over too into dressage) but SGF 1000 was designed for horses, so some tinkering has to been done to make it a "rocket fuel" or recovery "help" for the peloton. The timeline for the use of SGF 1000 seems to match the increasing speed of the peloton, but detectable? Well, the court case was mainly based on intercepted telephone calls so I think it will take a whistleblower or, as per normal in pro-cycling & drugbusting, a police raid.

 

[pastronef]

SGF-1000 is currently on the menu for top cyclist according to Cycling Highlights. He's not talking names but obviously you can make your conclusion about potential suspects.

CyclingHighlights, the guy saying this or that rider was Piccolo's team mate, that rider's is Frank VDB son in law (Merlier) etc etc. that rider was in a breakaway with a busted rider, etc etc
it's laughable. I know twitter and forums are there to be wild, but stupid takes like those just give away the fact he's ready to accuse or hint at anyone without proof.
and this new product he talks about is for horses, not even on Wada's list

 

[solo80k]

and this new product he talks about is for horses, not even on Wada's list

That's why we'll be soon talking about hp instead of W/kg output. 😜

 

[Extinction]

Why doesn't Pog (or any of these guys) post his VO2 max? The reason is so obvious as to be absurd.

 

[Cookster15]

Just after a year of the most ridiculous performance of all time as well.

Yep, Combloux TT. Absolutely ridiculous.

 

[Cookster15]

Why doesn't Pog (or any of these guys) post his VO2 max? The reason is so obvious as to be absurd.

It can't be more absurd than the claims I have read for Vingegaard by his father and others. Didn't someone claim Vingo recorded a VO2 max of 103? Perhaps that is unverified but if true its a world record by a wide margin.

 

[Extinction]

It can't be more absurd than the claims I have read for Vingegaard by his father and others. Didn't someone claim Vingo recorded a VO2 max of 103? Perhaps that is unverified but if true its a world record by a wide margin.

It's not been verified and I suspect spurious, but the fact that cyclists today don't publicize what is so obviously an indicator of natural talent means we have entered the synthetic age and for a long time.

 

[Cookster15]

It's not been verified and I suspect spurious, but the fact that cyclists today don't publicize what is so obviously an indicator of natural talent means we have entered the synthetic age and for a long time.

Agree with this. Was just looking at the 2024 Tour results. Some of those riders lower in the top 10 were doing their best ever numbers - like Landa even though they finished many minutes behind. But I still don't get how this doesn't trigger an adverse finding on the ABP? Any synthetic substance, even genetic doping risks being detected if not immediately then certainly in retrospective testing. The biological passport even tracks ratio of young vs old blood cells - be that natural or synthetic. Any other substance capable of transporting oxygen is also susceptible to detection. I think maybe the UCI is looking the other way - like they did with Armstrong?

 

[Invicituz]

It's been reported that Tadej Pogačar has a VO2 max of 89.4 ml/kg/min.

Vingegaard's VO2 max at 17 years of age is reported to have been around 97 ml/kg/min.

 

[Rob5091]

I think maybe the UCI is looking the other way - like they did with Armstrong?

With so much more money floating around, I'd be surprised if there was not any more "donations".

 

[Extinction]

It's been reported that Tadej Pogačar has a VO2 max of 89.4 ml/kg/min.

Vingegaard's VO2 max at 17 years of age is reported to have been around 97 ml/kg/min.

I've not seen these, do you have the sources?

 

[Extinction]

Agree with this. Was just looking at the 2024 Tour results. Some of those riders lower in the top 10 were doing their best ever numbers - like Landa even though they finished many minutes behind. But I still don't get how this doesn't trigger an adverse finding on the ABP? Any synthetic substance, even genetic doping risks being detected if not immediately then certainly in retrospective testing. The biological passport even tracks ratio of young vs old blood cells - be that natural or synthetic. Any other substance capable of transporting oxygen is also susceptible to detection. I think maybe the UCI is looking the other way - like they did with Armstrong?

They've "changed everything" so that nothing has changed (see ABP). Of course they've been looking the other way, following Armstrong it continued with Sky and now UAE and Visma, etc. The team budget increases prohibit another massive bringing down of a marquis rider/team. Cycling and the Tour may not survive another Festina or Armstrong affair. It explains why Riis is a persona non grata, but somehow Gianetti (once DS of Saunier-Duval of Riccardo Ricco and Leonardo Piepoli) is still welcomed with open arms. The hipocrasy in this sport knows no bounds.

 

[Cookster15]

I've not seen these, do you have the sources?

Understanding VO2 Max - REBEL Store

If, like many, you spent three weeks in July enthralled watching the Tour de France, you will have heard the metric VO2 Max referred to numerous times when discussing the performances of the top riders. If you weren’t watching, what exactly were you doing? Tour runner-up, Jonas Vingegaard is...

rebelstore.co.za

 

[Extinction]

Understanding VO2 Max - REBEL Store

If, like many, you spent three weeks in July enthralled watching the Tour de France, you will have heard the metric VO2 Max referred to numerous times when discussing the performances of the top riders. If you weren’t watching, what exactly were you doing? Tour runner-up, Jonas Vingegaard is...

rebelstore.co.za

I actually heard Vingo has reached 106, which seems absurd, but nothing on Pogacar.

 

[Blobs]

Just after a year of the most ridiculous performance of all time as well.

At the time sure, but Pog's performances this year have now pushed it out of the top 5.

 

[Salvarani]

At the time sure, but Pog's performances this year have now pushed it out of the top 5.

Going from hospital to best level ever is still way more insane to me.

In 2023 Pog was put down by a crash and then made changes in the offseason with new trainer and whatnot. All this was put out and he is good all year, like he usually is. Always at a high level. He is still young enough that he still makes improvements and factoring in the bad luck he has suffered in 2023 and bad tactics 2022, when regarding the Tour, it is not more insane than the other alien who just super-peaks on rocket fuel.

 

[Blobs]

Going from hospital to best level ever is still way more insane to me.

Both are absurd, but Pog going from an extremely good, yet still in line with what we've seen from him previously, and some way off EPO-era, level, to by far the greatest level by anyone ever, somewhere between stage 11 and 14 in the Tour, after having already won the Giro and a monument (and almost another) earlier in the season, takes the cake for me.

 

[Salvarani]

Both are absurd, but Pog going from an extremely good, yet still in line with what we've seen from him previously, and some way off EPO-era, level, to by far the greatest level by anyone ever, somewhere between stage 11 and 14 in the Tour, after having already won the Giro and a monument (and almost another) earlier in the season, takes the cake for me.

Ok, not for me.

 

[Cookster15]

At the time sure, but Pog's performances this year have now pushed it out of the top 5.

Nah, Combloux beats all. A 58Kg skeleton remember.

 

[Raest]

Going from hospital to best level ever is still way more insane to me.

In 2023 Pog was put down by a crash and then made changes in the offseason with new trainer and whatnot. All this was put out and he is good all year, like he usually is. Always at a high level. He is still young enough that he still makes improvements and factoring in the bad luck he has suffered in 2023 and bad tactics 2022, when regarding the Tour, it is not more insane than the other alien who just super-peaks on rocket fuel.

Nah, Combloux beats all. A 58Kg skeleton remember.

One could argue that every stage won by Pogacar in this year's Tour beat the Combloux stage in ridiculousness but that's not the point is it? It's not about who is the biggest doper, that's just whataboutism at its finest, but about the blatant doping practices that are again evident in professional cycling.

 

[Salvarani]

One could argue that every stage won by Pogacar in this year's Tour beat the Combloux stage in ridiculousness but that's not the point is it? It's not about who is the biggest doper, that's just whataboutism at its finest, but about the blatant doping practices that are again evident in professional cycling.

It doesnt beat the Combloux spectacle whatsoever, which says how much of an outlier that performance was.

Again? It has always been there and always will. It is deep-rooted in the sport, like many other endurance sports, to even be able to practice it at an elite/pro level. It is not healthy whatsoever.

 

[Blobs]

It doesnt beat the Combloux spectacle whatsoever, which says how much of an outlier that performance was.

But this years Pog would still have beaten him that day, so why is that performance more suspicious than Pog this year?

 

[Froome]

Vingegaard-best perfomance ever on Combloux ITT.

At the same time...."Vingegaard can't beat this new version of Pogacar in the Tour".

It makes all of the sense in the world, as much as telling someone was in peak shape ever in the Tour, after 2 weeks in April, in the intensive care.

 

[Salvarani]

But this years Pog would still have beaten him that day, so why is that performance more suspicious than Pog this year?

We dont know that.

And that performance is still a big outlier when looking at it. Especially compared to the rest of the field that day.

 

[Blobs]

We dont know that.

And that performance is still a big outlier when looking at it. Especially compared to the rest of the field that day.

If Vingegaard was at his highest ever level this year, as you say, then it's the only logical conclusion.

It was probably similar, compared to the rest of the field, to Plateau de Beille this year, and Pog still destroyed him there.