Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[pastronef]

GiaNetti, just 1 N

 

[Aimar16]

Add in Arab money

Arab money involved

What does this have to do with "Arab money"? When exactly has an Arab country rigged a major sporting event with the intention of winning it? The biggest cheats in the history of sport have always come from the Western world. Like West Germany rigging the 1954 FIFA World Cup final, english rigged the whole 1966 World Cup....

 

[Ripper]

What does this have to do with "Arab money"? When exactly has an Arab country rigged a major sporting event with the intention of winning it? The biggest cheats in the history of sport have always come from the Western world. Like West Germany rigging the 1954 FIFA World Cup final, english rigged the whole 1966 World Cup....

How about massive amounts of money, and perhaps less ethical concern (although that could be part of massive $$).

 

[Krzysztof_O]

According to Mauro the new generation of cyclists is honest and fair so he isn't afraid that they do something illegal and hide it from him (like Ricco and Cobo). This should end the debate on Pogi, who is surely a good boy who doesn't take shortcuts (as he described himself).

 

[Aimar16]

How about massive amounts of money, and perhaps less ethical concern (although that could be part of massive $$).

As if other teams don't spend a lot of money. Jumbo with the money laundering owner. Ineos with the shady brexit oligarch who immediately after brexit relocated to the tax haven Monaco and moved part of his business to France...

 

[Ripper]

As if other teams don't spend a lot of money. Jumbo with the money laundering owner. Ineos with the shady brexit oligarch who immediately after brexit relocated to the tax haven Monaco and moved part of his business to France...

It depends on the team, doesn't it? You've picked 2 other teams that have been called out both in terms of very suspicious riders and having ridiculous budgets, which really just reinforces the point that the poster was making. And if course there are numerous ways having all that $$ (in comparison to other teams) helps, not all of which are clinic material.

 

[Aimar16]

It depends on the team, doesn't it? You've picked 2 other teams that have been called out both in terms of very suspicious riders and having ridiculous budgets, which really just reinforces the point that the poster was making. And if course there are numerous ways having all that $$ (in comparison to other teams) helps, not all of which are clinic material.

You are falsifying what the poster wrote. The poster is specifically suspicious of "Arab money"

Add in Arab money and the whole operation becomes suspect.

I just would prefer he was doing it in another organization that didn't have Gianetti and Arab money involved.

 

[yaco]

You are falsifying what the poster wrote. The poster is specifically suspicious of "Arab money"

I never realised Arab money was sponsoring cycling in the 80's, 90's and naughties.

 

[Extinction]

You are falsifying what the poster wrote. The poster is specifically suspicious of "Arab money"

Oh, it's not just Arab money I'm suspicious of, don't get me wrong. However, given the Arab world has zero interest in cycling and the authoritarian way in which Arab states are governed, the blatant human rights violations (UAE, including arbitrary detention, cruel and inhuman treatment of detainees, supression of freedom of expression, and violation of the right to privacy), etc; I don't think those that court Arab financing have many scruples, or are overly concerned for their image of running "clean" teams. Not that getting your money from Radcliffe or, heaven forbid, the Kazaki state, ensures any better. Yet putting Gianetti and Arab money together for me sends sirens off.

 

[Aimar16]

Oh, it's not just Arab money I'm suspicious of, don't get me wrong. However, given the Arab world has zero interest in cycling and the authoritarian way in which Arab states are governed, the blatant human rights violations (UAE, including arbitrary detention, cruel and inhuman treatment of detainees, supression of freedom of expression, and violation of the right to privacy), etc; I don't think those that court Arab financing have many scruples, or are overly concerned for their image of running "clean" teams. Not that getting your money from Radcliffe or, heaven forbid, the Kazaki state, ensures any better. Yet putting Gianetti and Arab money together for me sends sirens off.

Just as the biggest cheats in sport, the most egregious human rights abuses and atrocities have come from the Western world.

Tbh, I find it ridiculous that some people believe that one of the most powerful people in the world like MDZ is sitting in his palace thinking about how to pump up a Slovenian cyclist with drugs to win a cycling race with a UAE badge.

 

[Ripper]

Just as the biggest cheats in sport, the most egregious human rights abuses and atrocities have come from the Western world.

Tbh, I find it ridiculous that some people believe that one of the most powerful people in the world like MDZ is sitting in his palace thinking about how to pump up a Slovenian cyclist with drugs to win a cycling race with a UAE badge.

Riiiiiiiight.

And your last paragraph is completely missing the point.

 

[Ripper]

Oh, it's not just Arab money I'm suspicious of, don't get me wrong. However, given the Arab world has zero interest in cycling and the authoritarian way in which Arab states are governed, the blatant human rights violations (UAE, including arbitrary detention, cruel and inhuman treatment of detainees, supression of freedom of expression, and violation of the right to privacy), etc; I don't think those that court Arab financing have many scruples, or are overly concerned for their image of running "clean" teams. Not that getting your money from Radcliffe or, heaven forbid, the Kazaki state, ensures any better. Yet putting Gianetti and Arab money together for me sends sirens off.

Gotta ad Murdoch to that

 

[Nick2413]

Just as the biggest cheats in sport, the most egregious human rights abuses and atrocities have come from the Western world.

Tbh, I find it ridiculous that some people believe that one of the most powerful people in the world like MDZ is sitting in his palace thinking about how to pump up a Slovenian cyclist with drugs to win a cycling race with a UAE badge.

Doping occurs in every competitive country in the world and has been proven many times over in non western countries. This is an outrageous and silly claim. The very fact that UAE even has a cycling team, with not a single UAE rider on it, is evidence that they are indeed investing millions of dollars into winning races with a UAE badge. They might not even be aware any of the riders are on drugs, but that’s the whole point - pay to win at all costs. That’s not a knock on them or any country in specific, it’s just one of the most ridiculous forms of denialism I’ve ever seen to only blame certain countries for doping when the actual hard data says otherwise.

 

[Extinction]

Just as the biggest cheats in sport, the most egregious human rights abuses and atrocities have come from the Western world.

Tbh, I find it ridiculous that some people believe that one of the most powerful people in the world like MDZ is sitting in his palace thinking about how to pump up a Slovenian cyclist with drugs to win a cycling race with a UAE badge.

Or let's say the biggest human rights abuses have been committed by the Western World (along with just about every civilization, from Far Eastern, to Middle Eastern, to African, to South American, etc., on a vast scale, which is a constant of civilization itself), and continues to do so on a more or less proxy basis through the arms trade and other forms of state support to the worst regimes around the globe, whenever it's economic interests are at stake.

Arguably, however, the money coming from the various Western corporate entities investing in European cycling, has little to do directly with state sponsored torture and other human rights violations such as that coming into the sport from the Arab world like UAE and Bahrein.

The MDZs of the Arab world don't have to worry about pumping a Slovenian with dope to crush the field, it's what they've got their Euro friends in the sport on the payroll for.

 

[Aimar16]

Doping occurs in every competitive country in the world and has been proven many times over in non western countries. This is an outrageous and silly claim. The very fact that UAE even has a cycling team, with not a single UAE rider on it, is evidence that they are indeed investing millions of dollars into winning races with a UAE badge. They might not even be aware any of the riders are on drugs, but that’s the whole point - pay to win at all costs. That’s not a knock on them or any country in specific, it’s just one of the most ridiculous forms of denialism I’ve ever seen to only blame certain countries for doping when the actual hard data says otherwise.

Look dude. I didn't claim that Pog, Gianetti are clean or that non western countries don't doping. The poster's claim was that they are dirty because "Arab money" is involved in their success. To me, this is clear xenophobia and Islamophobia and poster try to make racism look like an anti-doping crusade. So you completely missed the point, or you are just another Islamophobe.

Or let's say the biggest human rights abuses have been committed by the Western World (along with just about every civilization, from Far Eastern, to Middle Eastern, to African, to South American, etc., on a vast scale, which is a constant of civilization itself), and continues to do so on a more or less proxy basis through the arms trade and other forms of state support to the worst regimes around the globe, whenever it's economic interests are at stake.

Arguably, however, the money coming from the various Western corporate entities investing in European cycling, has little to do directly with state sponsored torture and other human rights violations such as that coming into the sport from the Arab world like UAE and Bahrein.

The MDZs of the Arab world don't have to worry about pumping a Slovenian with dope to crush the field, it's what they've got their Euro friends in the sport on the payroll for.

EasyPost owner who is a big Trump supporter and donor, while Trump conspired to kill Julian Assange and according to a UN report, Assange was tortured in a maximum security prison in the UK for exposing US war crimes, the murder of a Reuters' journalist and large-scale corruption in the US government.

Trek's founder and owner is just chilling in Bush's presidential council while Bush invades and bombs other countries on fabricated grounds causing the deaths of millions of Iraqis and kidnap, torture people just for fun.

Okay dudes there is nothing to see here, these western companies are all good, honest people and they are here for one thing to fight dirty "Arab money".

Btw, this was the last post on this topic for me as it is getting completely OT.

 

[Extinction]

The poster's claim was that they are dirty because "Arab money" is involved in their success. To me, this is clear xenophobia and Islamophobia and poster try to make racism look like an anti-doping crusade.

This is utter nonesense. It would be like taking umbrage with the illegal land-grab policies of Palestinian Arab territory by the State of Israel for being antisemetic. You clearly have a rather narrowly circumscribed view on the issue, if you accuse me of that, which is itself a sort of fascism by the way. Oh please, the inquisitors of righteousness are out on the hunt to place the heretics on trial. It's getting to the point at which we can't make critcism of any identity or category without being labled racist, or x-phobic, or whatever accusations the enforcers of moral rectitude want to dish out. Evidently my specific observation of Arab regime violations of human rights (part of the wealth of which is funding two World Tour cycling teams) is racist too. Well have fun with that one, because you may as well accuse organizations like Human Rights Watch of being racist. What an intellectually poor state we have devolved into. So I'll restate my premise: Arab money (i.e. from the regime, not Arabs in general) in tandem with Gianetti makes for an unsavory combination. Feel free to make a list of all the other unsavory money-personality combos in cycling, however, mine was an observation relevant to the title of this thread: TP and MG.

 

[Fergoose]

I think 'Arab money' is an appropriate distinct term in cycling for four reasons.

1. the money comes from supporters and participants in authoritarian regimes. They've grown up knowing the rule of law does not apply to them.
2. they intentionally embed their nations name in the team, unlike Katusha, Ineos, Jumbo or even Astana (the latter being a the capital city I accept)
3. said regimes have shown a willingness to project national prestige through sports they typically dont have much of a track record in (hosting football world cup and F1 races). This is distinct in some ways to Russian oligarchs (representing personal prestige rather than national). So I think it's fair to say the basis of the funding of teams is primarily about national prestige and that this provides an extremely high motivation to succeed (not dissimilar to state wide doping regimes like the old Warsaw Pact). History shows tying national prestige to sports is a combination for a 'win at all costs'attitude. Be it doping or training gymnasts from age 3 for 16hrs a day.
4. there is no intent to develop Arab riders. It's purely for bragging rights. If there is no intention for a nationally owned and named team to develop (any?) domestic riders then I think its reasonable to suspect the reasons for the investment stand even less chance of being wholesome.

Despite the amazing inconsistency of Bahrain Victorious before and after police activity I've no grounds for thinking the Arab owned teams cheat more than others. But I think to suspect they have a higher than average chance of having a 'win at all costs' mentality is fair, even when compared to a superficially similar Katusha, Jumbo, Ineos, Astana. For the record I think Ineos had a 'bend the letter of the law with TUEs at all costs' which they've since abandoned (coinciding with a demise). For all I know the Authoritarian Arab regime teams may limit themselves to TUE exploitation or not dope at all. Or perhaps Bahrain are as dirty as police intelligence suggests and UAE are not.

Regardless, I think the term 'Arab Teams' is a suitable abbreviation of Authoritarian Arab regime Teams and can be used without any obvious racist intent. Its primarily about describing rich Arab guys splashing cash on teams AND overtly tying the team to national prestige.

 

[noob]

Let's see how Almeida goes. It does look like he's been catching up with his teammates Pog and Ayuso. But they seem to wait to feed Majka until the tour.

Plus now we know why Yates didn't pace for Almeida today; he told the teamcar "it's in the bag".

 

[noob]

UAE is so creepy. That press officer always following Almeida like a shadow checking that he says and does everything according to script. No race organisation whatsoever, but the PR and thought control instead extreme. Everything about the surface, patching up and lying. So creepy.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

UAE is so creepy. That press officer always following Almeida like a shadow checking that he says and does everything according to script. No race organisation whatsoever, but the PR and thought control instead extreme. Everything about the surface, patching up and lying. So creepy.

Let's cut them some slack, Teddy once said that Mauro was a good guy and deserved the second chance (it's at least the fourth in his case though ).

 

[pastronef]

UAE is so creepy. That press officer always following Almeida like a shadow checking that he says and does everything according to script. No race organisation whatsoever, but the PR and thought control instead extreme. Everything about the surface, patching up and lying. So creepy.

who?

 

[noob]

who?

This guy. Hao Yang Zhao

好樣照 (auto translation) (no pinyin on my computer).

 

[pastronef]

This guy. Hao Yang Zhao

好樣照 (auto translation) (no pinyin on my computer).

you mean you saw him on tv after the finish lines staying with Almeida and checking what he says?

 

[noob]

you mean you saw him on tv after the finish lines staying with Almeida and checking what he says?

Always. (When I've don PR work the job has been about not being seen and being in the background, not being in front of the camera directing my client. Especially not physically. )

But Catalunya was absurd.

I cannot find the pic now, but there's pic serie that shows how he puts his arm around Almeida back to push/guard/urge him towards Soler to handshake.

What is both so creepy (and hilarious black humour) is that all that is done in front of cameras which makes it completely obvious.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1638583881933758472

Edit found it: It's even their official insta all of it.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1638219394865045508

 

[Tinnekeisabella]

This guy. Hao Yang Zhao

好樣照 (auto translation) (no pinyin on my computer).

Then you have not seen that Luke Maguire press guy….he is always 10 cm away from Tadej…