Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[Salvarani]

Wow!!! He won a stage in Paix!!!! And Luniganigia!?!? Lugnangiana!!!!!!


3 is not "a lot" lmao

He also had many podiums and top 10s. Which consistently means being one of the best in races.

 

[E_F_]

No you don't get it!! He somehow found a way to beat

Evgenii Kazanov​

!!!!


He finished 107 in the Russian national uphill time trial this year! He's the real deal!

 

[E_F_]

But he had many good results in his first U23 year...

He also had many podiums and top 10s.

You were the one who claimed he won a lot of junior races.

 

[Salvarani]

Compare this to Remco and you can put the "talent-card" away

But there have been a few riders like Remco not being able to repeat such results.

How is Herzog doing in the pros?

Marco Brenner?

Dominating juniors aint everything.

There are plenty of riders who had good junior careers who kept developing each season and into the pros. Like Pog, who was a very good junior and even better in the U23s. Then as a pro as well.

 

[Salvarani]

You were the one who claimed he won a lot of junior races.

You are the one wanting to say he did nothing. When it isnt the case.

 

[E_F_]

You are one saying he did nothing.

Yeah, nothing that would suggest the greatest rider ever, that's for damn sure.

 

[GuntherL1]

Not really. It's pretty obvious that Evenepoel is more competitive in various types of terrains and races than Vingegaard.

Interesting. You can predict stuff that has never happened yet. Do you do lottery numbers?

 

[GuntherL1]

But there have been a few riders like Remco not being able to repeat such results.

How is Herzog doing in the pros?

Marco Brenner?

Dominating juniors aint everything.

There are plenty of riders who had good junior careers who kept developing each season and into the pros. Like Pog, who was a very good junior and even better in the U23s.

A very good junior? Seriously? You don't check results, do you?

 

[Forever The Best]

This is going to end really bad, like ended for Ricardo ricco.

Gianetti and Matxin don't give again a damn anymore, they don’t even care to disguise a bit this year.

The oil money buy everything, that's the only thing who can make them safe in the future, to control the authorities.

Cycling learned from its mistakes (i.e. catching popular riders/winners and decreasing the popularity of the sport)
Pogacar/Gianetti/Matxin also learned from Ricco, like Sky/Froome learned from USPS/Armstrong.

 

[Salvarani]

A very good junior? Seriously? You don't check results, do you?

He has plenty of good results. Wins and many tops 10s. Podiums.

 

[E_F_]

He has plenty of good results. Wins and many tops 10s. Podiums.

He had results that suggested he would probably become a pro. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[AttaqueDeRolland]

Interesting. You can predict stuff that has never happened yet. Do you do lottery numbers?

Mate, what the *** are you on about? Remco has won a whole host of one-day races, he is the reigning World and Olympic time-trial champion, he won Brussels Cycling Classics and a stage of Belgium Tour where they did both Paddestraat and Lippenhovestraat. It's not even a question if Remco's skillset is more diversified than Vingegaard's, that's clearly a factual statement.

 

[GuntherL1]

No. He only won one race against nobodies in his first two seasons and using top tens to predict this kind of career is simply ridiculous.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

He had results that suggested he would probably become a pro. Nothing more, nothing less.

He did more than that though. Nothing that screamed all year dominator, of course, but if you didn't know who he was before the 2018 Tour de l'Avenir, that's on you.

 

[Salvarani]

He had results that suggested he would probably become a pro. Nothing more, nothing less.

No, he was consistently performing well in many races. Took steps every season through 2015-2018. Showcasing both abilities in one-day races and stage-races. Against pros as well. Riding for a small club and national team.

 

[E_F_]

He did more than that though. Nothing that screamed all year dominator, of course, but if you didn't know who he was before the 2018 Tour de l'Avenir, that's on you.

You're probably right. But I didn't really follow cycling back then, so...


Nah, you know what. Primozic performed much better than him and he didn't turn pro. Probably going to turn pro seems very fair.

 

[GuntherL1]

Mate, what the *** are you on about? Remco has won a whole host of one-day races, he is the reigning World and Olympic time-trial champion, he won Brussels Cycling Classics and a stage of Belgium Tour where they did both Paddestraat and Lippenhovestraat. It's not even a question if Remco's skillset is more diversified than Vingegaard's, that's clearly a factual statement.

Well, Vingegaard doesn't ride them... Right? Check the last two seasons. He only rode San Sebastian after an exhausting Tdf.

Well... Vingegaard beat Evenepoel in the final time trial of the TdF, so maybe he should give it go. Remember the Brabantse Pijl in 2022? He couldn't follow the skilled racers because it was raining. I think you're overestimating his skill set. It's not a coincidence he hasn't tried Flanders yet.

 

[Netserk]

Is this product on the WADA banned list? If not, it's a non-issue at the moment.

It does not have to be explicitly named to be banned, just to fall within a banned category, e.g.:

S2
PEPTIDE HORMONES, GROWTH FACTORS, RELATED SUBSTANCES, AND MIMETICS

PROHIBITED AT ALL TIMES (IN- AND OUT-OF-COMPETITION)
All prohibited substances in this class are non-Specified Substances.

The following substances, and other substances with similar chemical structure or similar biological effect(s), are prohibited.

1. ERYTHROPOIETINS (EPO) AND AGENTS AFFECTING ERYTHROPOIESIS
Including, but not limited to:
[...]
1.4 Transforming growth factor beta (TGF-β) signalling inhibitors, e.g. luspatercept; sotatercept.
[...]

3. GROWTH FACTORS AND GROWTH FACTOR MODULATORS
Including, but not limited to:
• Fibroblast growth factors (FGFs)
• Hepatocyte growth factor (HGF)
• Insulin-like growth factor 1 (IGF-1) and its analogues
• Mechano growth factors (MGFs)
• Platelet-derived growth factor (PDGF)
• Thymosin-β4 and its derivatives e.g. TB-500
• Vascular endothelial growth factor (VEGF)

and other growth factors or growth factor modulators affecting muscle, tendon or ligament protein synthesis/degradation, vascularisation, energy utilization, regenerative capacity or fibre type switching.

So what's actually in SGF 1000?
Some reports from labs gave, “ovine transforming growth factor-beta”, “hepatocyte growth factor,” “fibroblast growth factor” and evidence of , "acepromazine, levamisole, detomidine, pyrilamine, lidocaine, MEGX, xylazine, and caffeine."

So clearly banned if that's what it contains.

 

[Blobs]

Not having any noticeable performance before his 23th birthday.

So because he won l'avenir he could win every GT and every monument for the next 10 years, and it would still be more believable than Vingegaard?

 

[Samu Cuenca]

You're probably right. But I didn't really follow cycling back then, so...

I didn't follow cycling as closely as I do now back then either, but I had heard about him, and he was the main reason I decided to watch the broadcasted stages from that edition of l'Avenir. And while he didn't do anything overly spectacular in that race, his consistency still meant he could beat all other riders of whom many were older than him.

Did that guarantee he would ever become of one of the top riders in the sport? No, and it certainly didn't indicate he would go on to one day win races left and right either (but not many riders really look like that as young riders or go on to achieve that either). However many very successful riders have had as good or worse junior and/or U23 results than him.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

Why are people arguing about his results on juniors as if they have any relevance to the gianetti clown show that has snowball since 2019

In my opinion it was pretty clear that pogacar was a very talented u23, same as most other top dopers from cycling history

 

[snipeheem]

how good he was before Mauro?

 

[Netserk]

Why are people arguing about his results on juniors as if they have any relevance to the gianetti clown show that has snowball since 2019

In my opinion it was pretty clear that pogacar was a very talented u23, same as most other top dopers from cycling history

Yeah, the improvement that is most suspicious is his YoY. He is much stronger in 2024 than in 2022 & 2023.

But more so, it is his absolute level now and how much stronger he is than the strongest peloton ever. He could have dominated to the same extent since he was 17, and it’d still stink.

 

[topcat]

We've been down this road before. Nobody would say Armstrong or Froome were the most talented riders of their generation. Pogacar isn't either.
Where do we go from here?
I want to watch a race with unpredictability, competition and suspense. Especially, I want a race where I don't know the outcome in advance and I have to delude myself into watching saying maybe, just maybe.

 

[Netserk]

He dominated 2021, but was unable to drop his rivals in Liège. Now he can go solo from wherever he wants to and win.