Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[Cookster15]

The Visma 2023 dominance narrative is almost entirely shaped by that Vuelta where they went 1-2-3

Not sure how you come to that conclusion. As pointed out Visma had 69 wins in 2023. Take away Pogi and I don't think UAE have gotten close?

Before the 2023 Vuelta there was the Giro and the Tour. Roglic won the Giro for Visma overhauling Thomas on that stage 20 TT. Then Vingegaard stomped Pogi by 7 minutes at the Tour followed by their podium lock out at the Vuelta. So Visma locked out all three grand Tours.

Strangely since Sep Kuss won that Vuelta he has dropped off the planet.

Victories for Jumbo-Visma 2023

Jumbo-Visma won 69 races in 2023. The biggest victories are Tour de France General classification by Jonas Vingegaard, Giro d'Italia General classification (Primož RogliÄ) and La Vuelta Ciclista a España General classification (Sepp Kuss).

www.procyclingstats.com

 

[Red Rick]

Not sure how you come to that conclusion. As pointed out Visma had 69 wins in 2023. Take away Pogi and I don't think UAE have gotten close?

Before the 2023 Vuelta there was the Giro and the Tour. Roglic won the Giro for Visma overhauling Thomas on that stage 20 TT. Then Vingegaard stomped Pogi by 7 minutes at the Tour followed by their podium lock out at the Vuelta. So Visma locked out all three grand Tours.

Strangely since Sep Kuss won that Vuelta he has dropped off the planet.

Victories for Jumbo-Visma 2023

Jumbo-Visma won 69 races in 2023. The biggest victories are Tour de France General classification by Jonas Vingegaard, Giro d'Italia General classification (Primož RogliÄ) and La Vuelta Ciclista a España General classification (Sepp Kuss).

www.procyclingstats.com

Yes, let's compare UAE minus Pogacar to Jumbo-Visma with Roglic and Vingegaard. The most neutral of metrics.

Let's ignore that Pogacar vs Vingegaard was a close battle for 2 weeks and that the gap being 7 minutes was much more due to Pogacar getting dropped by frigging Kwiatkowski.

Let's ignore that Roglic only barely won the Giro, and he won it by only one stage, and that it was a Giro in which for much of the time the narrative was that Roglic was washed.

Let's ignore that during the Tour Jumbo were trying for much of the time to win stages with Van Aert too and kept failing at that.

Let's ignore that Jumbo didn't win any monuments or WC, let alone winning them by stupendously long attacks because tactics don't matter anymore.

 

[Cookster15]

Yes, let's compare UAE minus Pogacar to Jumbo-Visma with Roglic and Vingegaard. The most neutral of metrics.

Let's ignore that Pogacar vs Vingegaard was a close battle for 2 weeks and that the gap being 7 minutes was much more due to Pogacar getting dropped by frigging Kwiatkowski.

Let's ignore that Roglic only barely won the Giro, and he won it by only one stage, and that it was a Giro in which for much of the time the narrative was that Roglic was washed.

Let's ignore that during the Tour Jumbo were trying for much of the time to win stages with Van Aert too and kept failing at that.

Let's ignore that Jumbo didn't win any monuments or WC, let alone winning them by stupendously long attacks because tactics don't matter anymore.

It was wrong to say Visma's 2023 dominance narrative was almost entirely shaped by that Vuelta. What about all the other races and wins since the beginning of that season? Its a long list - 69 wins. I provided a link.

 

[Red Rick]

It was wrong to say Visma's 2023 dominance narrative was almost entirely shaped by that Vuelta. What about all the other races and wins since the begging of that season? Its a long list - 69 wins. I provided a link.

Because it's not a holistic view of the situation at all, and if they had won 69 races winning only Giro and Tour and not going 1-2-3 in the Vuelta nobody would give a crap about it.

 

[E_F_]

*** weather innit?

 

[acm]

Hahahah

 

[markene2]

Been saying for over 10 years by now that motors is in use in the peloton. When will you guys finally start to believe.

 

[ashhutch1997]

This will kill the sport, what's the point in watching a race where you know the result before the race.

 

[E_F_]

This will kill the sport, what's the point in watching a race where you know the result before the race.

Especially when the whole thing plays out in such a farcical manner. Nothing happens all day, the Pogster floats away, they self-destruct behind.

 

[noob]

Glad I'm not watching

 

[ashhutch1997]

Especially when the whole thing plays out in such a farcical manner. Nothing happens all day, the Pogster floats away, they self-destruct behind.

What annoys me is that noday even dares to question this. Lance Armstrong, Chris Froome ect got absolutely hammered every press conference. Heck, just look at Mauro Gianetti's history, yet nothing.
Unfortunately in this day and age, you aren't allowed to question the mainstream narrative like the past, you just get called a 'hater' or a 'conspiracy therist'.

 

[Ripper]

What do people expect when the supposed "best climber in the world" can keep up with Van der Poel on the flats and cobbles of Roubaix?

It reminds me of when Pantani or Heras won time trials. We all know what that meant.

Boy doesn't need to peak. These are all just Sunday group rides to him.

 

[Stablo]

Glad I'm not watching

I stopped watching when Pog just floated away and the only one who had even a small chance to challenge had clearly a bad day.

 

[Ripper]

What annoys me is that noday even dares to question this. Lance Armstrong, Chris Froome ect got absolutely hammered every press conference. Heck, just look at Mauro Gianetti's history, yet nothing.
Unfortunately in this day and age, you aren't allowed to question the mainstream narrative like the past, you just get called a 'hater' or a 'conspiracy therist'.

Pretty much! You'll get canceled!

I mean, of all people to be managing a team, no one spends much time bringing up the past of those two.

The race for second place is interesting!

 

[acm]

It just looks too easy to be true. I don't know how anyone can still believe he's clean.

 

[ashhutch1997]

It just looks too easy to be true. I don't know how anyone can still believe he's clean.

The thing is I know they are all doping, but this is royaly taking the piss. I can't believe it but I'm starting to question that motor doping could be happening..

 

[Epicycle2]

Definitely seems like Gianetti and Tadej's team supercharged the program after Tadej actually looked tired during Roubaix and Amstel.

Plus they know with the Tour route being so brutal this year that they'll have to push Tadej's recovery ability to a new level to guarantee more domination so this is probably a test for that.

 

[Casual cyclist]

What annoys me is that noday even dares to question this. Lance Armstrong, Chris Froome ect got absolutely hammered every press conference. Heck, just look at Mauro Gianetti's history, yet nothing.
Unfortunately in this day and age, you aren't allowed to question the mainstream narrative like the past, you just get called a 'hater' or a 'conspiracy therist'.

That's it. Simply speaking, the main reason for that is the much increased degree of monopolization everywhere especially in the last few years starting from covid.

 

[Casual cyclist]

The thing is I know they are all doping, but this is royaly taking the piss. I can't believe it but I'm starting to question that motor doping could be happening..

Just starting now, huh. Good for you.

 

[ashhutch1997]

Just starting now, huh. Good for you.

I don't want to believe it bro that's why..

 

[acm]

The thing is I know they are all doping, but this is royaly taking the piss. I can't believe it but I'm starting to question that motor doping could be happening..

It's getting to the point where I'm starting to think that doping should be allowed. Everyone is responsible for their own health and what they take.

 

[Casual cyclist]

Definitely seems like Gianetti and Tadej's team supercharged the program after Tadej actually looked tired during Roubaix and Amstel.

Plus they know with the Tour route being so brutal this year that they'll have to push Tadej's recovery ability to a new level to guarantee more domination so this is probably a test for that.

More like "supercharged his bike" to make sure there is sufficient cushion to allow for the unforeseen and avoid any chance of embarrassment.

 

[Epicycle2]

More like "supercharged his bike" to make sure there is sufficient cushion to allow for the unforeseen and avoid any chance of embarrassment.

If it is motor doping, I hope whoever's looking the other way is seriously getting paid because that's a gangster movie level of corruption.

 

[Abedfo]

Another ebike assist attack! Just pushes the button and rides off at the same cadence.

 

[Red Rick]

Gianetti is truly the Bald Horseman