Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[DONCA]

The guy is a 2020 TdF stage winner. Im pretty sure he knows what he is talking about.

The guy is part of the industry sure he wants to get another contract next year.

 

[Ripper]

I think it’s fair to be cautious with anything Antoine Vayer posts — his tone is often provocative, and he has a tendency to overstate things. That said, not everything he shares is nonsense, and in this particular case, it’s worth separating the messenger from the message.

Regarding ITTP, there seems to be some confusion:

- ITTP is not the same as efaproxiral (RSR-13).
While both are allosteric effectors of hemoglobin, ITTP is a distinct molecule with stronger oxygen-release capacity. Efaproxiral was explored in the early 2000s, but ITTP only started appearing in the literature around 2010–2012, and was developed as a more potent and stable alternative.

- Studies have shown performance-enhancing effects.
Peer-reviewed publications (e.g., PLOS ONE, 2012; Respiratory Physiology & Neurobiology, 2011) report significant improvements in tissue oxygenation and endurance capacity in animal models. No human trials exist yet, but the physiological basis is solid.

- ITTP is not currently on the WADA Prohibited List by name.
It may fall under broad categories like “blood manipulation,” but it’s not explicitly mentioned, and to date, it has not triggered any athlete positives — except for one case in French horse racing (2019), where a custom test had to be developed.

- Detection is not straightforward.
ITTP has a short half-life (1–3 hours), leaves no lasting markers in the blood, and doesn’t raise hemoglobin or hematocrit. That makes it invisible to the biological passport and difficult to detect without a targeted test — which, to our knowledge, doesn’t yet exist in anti-doping labs for humans.

Ding ding ding

I think we have a winner

 

[kingjr]

wellens. another uae transformation.

this was a rider who would only get any results near the start of the season and then would largely disappear.

last year I remember being shocked that he won the Belgian ITT.

now he is killing the mountains of the dauphine and TDF, as well as soloing the Belgian road race and a stage.

suddenly at age 34. give me a freakin' break.

and also narvaez -- now a mountain goat -- never performed like this in the mountains.

Yeah, Wellens was almost as fast as noted mountain goats Bruno Armirail, Victor Campenaerts, and Tobias Foss. That's a red flag if ever I saw one.

 

[SorelyBoy]

This is an interesting development: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2025/07/25/tour-france-bikes-hidden-motors/
Are we about to go mainstream? Will other journalists start investigating? Early days but one pebble can start an avalanche.

 

[bollington]

I couldn't say if he's on the juice or not, but Pogacar looks pretty bored right now, like he is on a club ride with retirees

 

[kingjr]

I couldn't say if he's on the juice or not, but Pogacar looks pretty bored right now, like he is on a club ride with retirees

I mean, if Visma could get Tadej so bored that he stops riding the Tour, that would be a major win for them.

 

[solo80k]

Well, I guess exhaust fumes ban made Pog and Jonas look less mutant in the last week.

 

[Rackham]

So who's up for a little conspiracy theory regarding David Rozman and Ineos? i.e. Rozman apparently has Slovenian links.

And suddenly Pog is allowing Ineos to win 2 stages.

Makes you think. Or it could just be coincidental. But it's funny nonetheless.

 

[SorelyBoy]

I couldn't say if he's on the juice or not, but Pogacar looks pretty bored right now, like he is on a club ride with retirees

We were just saying that this looks like a local club ride where they’ve been lucky enough to pick up a top class professional out in a training run who decided to ride with them for a few kilometres just for the craic, in the knowledge that he’ll leave them all for dead once he gets bored.

 

[E_F_]

This is an interesting development: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2025/07/25/tour-france-bikes-hidden-motors/
Are we about to go mainstream? Will other journalists start investigating? Early days but one pebble can start an avalanche.

Does anyone have access to the article?

 

[Tim Cahill]

So who's up for a little conspiracy theory regarding David Rozman and Ineos? i.e. Rozman apparently has Slovenian links.

And suddenly Pog is allowing Ineos to win 2 stages.

Makes you think. Or it could just be coincidental. But it's funny nonetheless.

Yes I thought so too, didn't want to say as it seemed too conspiratorial but as you've mentioned it.

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Rozman hired his friend Žiga Jerman at Ineos I believe, who was at FDJ when Schmidt was involved there, now he's at UAE. Pogacar's best mate from his teen years apparently, the Ljubljana days.

Very sordid stuff, a lot of these Slovenian's seem to be finding second lives as Masseurs!

To be fair to Arensman, nothing I've seen suggests him to be dodgy (other than the team), I think Rozman is more an inner circle guy, with the G's and Wiggo's of the world.

 

[ashhutch1997]

Those aero gains for clothes are arguably non existent. Those solid helmets from Bell everyone bought for their kid in the 1990s test better than most aero helmets these days (not talking about TT ones). There was a recent test of about 20 different aero socks and only a few had better aero than some normal worn out casual socks the tester used for a baseline, most of them tested worse.
Puppy paws and supertucking has been banned.

Tour magazine tested the Dogma F10 as more aero than many contemporary aero bikes.
Tires have been the same since the 2010s, GP5000s have been around since then, Veloflex tires from 2010s all test about as good as you can get.

IMO the best bikes were the last generation of rim brakes 2015-19. They were lighter and still very areo, plus way more reliable.

 

[zlev11]

IMO the best bikes were the last generation of rim brakes 2015-19. They were lighter and still very areo, plus way more reliable.

yep, i recently brought in my 2015 Cannondale Supersix for a tune up and the mechanic couldn't believe how light it was, with just regular old Mavic Ksyrium wheels on it too. he said the disc brake bikes he usually works on now are so much heavier.

 

[ColonelKidneyBeans]

The guy is part of the industry sure he wants to get another contract next year.

The 5 minutes slower claim is completely farcical, that would mean that if we were to give Armstrong's bike to Thomas/Vinge/pogacar for their 2022 ascent of the alpe, they would suddenly be slower than basically every winning time dating back to the 70's...

 

[SorelyBoy]

Does anyone have access to the article?

Here you go:

Tour de France confronts a new threat: Are cyclists using tiny motors?​

Kevin Sieff
MUR-DE-BRETAGNE, France — After the world’s best cyclists charged up the final climb in Stage 7 of the Tour de France, passing a roaring crowd at the finish line, a group of officials in black polo shirts darted toward their bikes.
The officials put red bracelets on the carbon frames. Their job was to conduct a little-known check in one of the world’s most scandal-stained sports: The bikes were being inspected for tiny motors.
Eight bikes were wheeled to a black tent a few feet from the podium, the handlebar tape still wet with riders’ sweat. One belonged to the winner of the stage, Tadej Pogacar. The other bikes belonged to riders who cycling officials had targeted based on questionable performances or tips.
Twenty years after a doping scandal upended the sport, professional cycling is pursuing dual challenges of keeping the world’s most famous cycling race honest and convincing a skeptical audience of the Tour’s legitimacy. That’s why Nicholas Raudenski, a former U.S. Homeland Security investigator, was standing next to the finish line as officials escorted the bikes to an X-ray machine.
Raudenski was hired last year as the head of the global cycling federation’s unit against technological fraud, a form of cheating known colloquially as “mechanical doping.” If he caught anyone, it would send a shock through a sport in which athletes routinely do the superhuman. What if the reason cyclists were able to glide up the Pyrenees mountains was because they weren’t pedaling unassisted?
Raudenski knew that only one professional cyclist had been caught competing with a hidden motor — a Belgian rider at the 2016 cyclo-cross world championships under-23 race. But the technology had improved dramatically since then. If he wasn’t vigilant, Raudenski believed, the Tour could be consumed by riders propelled by tiny motors.
The cycling federation, known by its name in French, Union Cycliste Internationale (UCI), was also trying to send a message to its fans. Many had followed the growing online discourse suggesting that cycling was once again turning a blind eye to cheaters. Fans posted videos about how easy it had become to sneak miniature motors into bike frames; they analyzed race footage which allegedly showed superhuman performances; they quoted former cyclists who swore the sport was still corrupt.
“If people are watching the Tour at home, or they’re out here braving the heat, they need to be confident that what they see is legitimate, that it’s credible,” said Raudenski. “Without controls, it turns into a circus. ... It turns in to motorized bike races.”
Some fans have found an additional reason for skepticism in the performance of Tadej Pogacar, the Slovenian cyclist who, at 26, is competing for his fourth Tour de France victory. By some measures, he is a stronger rider than even Lance Armstrong during his drug-aided peak. Armstrong, who now has a popular podcast, perhaps unhelpfully called Pogacar the greatest cyclist of all time and said he’s glad they never raced head-to-head.
Pogacar has repeatedly denied both mechanical and conventional doping allegations, calling cycling “a victim of its past.”
“There was no trust, and it was up to us, the cyclists, to regain the trust. But there’s nothing we can do,” he said at a news conference last year.
In another sport, the rise of a generational talent might prompt an outpouring of admiration and a renewed interest in top competitions, like what Usain Bolt and Michael Phelps did for their disciplines. But the shadow of the doping scandals of the late 1990s and early 2000s, in which Armstrong and other top riders were retroactively found to be taking performance enhancing drugs, continues to undermine the sport.
“When someone is that good, that much better than everyone else, it’s not surprising that people ask the same questions that they were asking a generation ago,” said Brian Cookson, the former head of the global cycling federation.
The way the sport drug tests its athletes has changed. Cycling now spends far more money on anti-doping programs than any other sport and its tests have become more sensitive. Athletes present daily whereabouts to authorities during the offseason, so they can be available for unscheduled drug tests. The kind of “blood doping” that Armstrong utilized, which was difficult to detect in the early 2000s, is now easily flagged.
“There’s been a clear shift in the way that doping has been tackled in the sport,” said Olivier Banuls, the head of testing at the International Testing Agency, which runs the anti-doping program for professional cycling.
Relatively few well-known professional cyclists have tested positive for drugs in the last decade, which Banuls says is proof of a strong testing regime and a changed culture. But some fans of the sport saw in that void the likelihood of foul play.
And then, amid conventional doping suspicions, rumors about small motors emerged. The threats were concerning enough the French prosecutor’s office took up the case. Cycling officials saw another existential threat to the sport, potentially more corrosive than drugs.
As electronic bikes — with motors that provide up to 1,000 watts of power — have become available for recreational cyclists, hobbyists began building lighter road bikes with more discreet motors. Some of those are about 50 watts, hidden near the rear hub. It’s theoretically enough power to change the conclusion of a race.
There’s no proof that professional cyclists are using those systems (the French prosecutor dropped its case), but rumors have surfaced enough to encourage skepticism. In 2021, the Swiss newspaper Le Temps reported that three riders claimed they heard “strange noises” coming from the rear wheels of their competitors in the Tour de France. A Hungarian engineer said he had been commissioned to make bikes with hidden motors as far back as 1998 to be used by professionals. No cyclists were formally linked to those allegations.
Raudenski’s unit is trying to close gaps that would have allowed cyclists to avoid detection. During the Tour de France, bikes are now taken directly to be tested instead of returning first to team mechanics, as they once were. The bikes in question are weighed and then scanned with a handheld X-ray machine and tested with a magnetometer. In some cases, the bikes are almost completely disassembled.
UCI announced last year that they would pay informants and whistleblowers who have information about mechanical doping. Raudenski wouldn’t disclose what information those informants have offered, but said, “We have people reaching out all the time.”
After leaving the U.S. government, Raudenski worked as an internal investigator at FIFA, the world soccer association, where he looked into match fixing and corruption. He’s aware that his work is both about catching possible cheaters — “I ask myself, ‘If I wanted to use a motor at a race, how I would do it?’” — as well as signaling to cycling fans that the sport has regained its integrity.
The day before the Mur-de-Bretagne finish, Raudenski’s unit inspected a bike that belonged to the Tudor Pro team. That team’s coach, Sebastian Deckert, said he too was frustrated by the distrust still attached to cycling. He said he didn’t understand the mechanics of inserting a motor into a bike frame, but was supportive of officials testing one of his riders’ bikes.
“Anything that is possible to prevent cheating should be done,” he said.

 

[daking123]

Just watched the Pogacar interview he’s frustrated that UAE (really just him) did all the work today while Jonas sat back. But come on the ego is unreal. Jonas has attacked him repeatedly this Tour and still couldn’t drop him. Isn’t that proof you’re the strongest? You can’t dominate and then complain others won’t help you. Pogacar wants it both ways and honestly, it feels like there’s nothing he wouldn’t do to win… even if that means firing up a motor.

 

[kingjr]

Just watched the Pogacar interview he’s frustrated that UAE (really just him) did all the work today while Jonas sat back. But come on the ego is unreal. Jonas has attacked him repeatedly this Tour and still couldn’t drop him. Isn’t that proof you’re the strongest? You can’t dominate and then complain others won’t help you. Pogacar wants it both ways and honestly, it feels like there’s nothing he wouldn’t do to win… even if that means firing up a motor.

I feel he still treats cycling as a game, expecting everyone to just play along, and gets upset when they don't. It's like a child having his toy taken away.

 

[Mayomaniac]

I feel he still treats cycling as a game, expecting everyone to just play along, and gets upset when they don't. It's like a child having his toy taken away.

Pogacar is just a little brat at heart.

 

[kingjr]

Pogacar is just a little brat at heart.

No, I think he's quite pleasant overall. Just needs to learn a few lessons, which is difficult when you have a massive fanbase treating you like a god, and a team that's unlikely to give you much pushback, either.

 

[FrontHeadlock]

Just watched the Pogacar interview he’s frustrated that UAE (really just him) did all the work today while Jonas sat back. But come on the ego is unreal. Jonas has attacked him repeatedly this Tour and still couldn’t drop him. Isn’t that proof you’re the strongest? You can’t dominate and then complain others won’t help you. Pogacar wants it both ways and honestly, it feels like there’s nothing he wouldn’t do to win… even if that means firing up a motor.

Exactly. "Oh Jonas, please pull me so I can outspirnt you at the end and gain another 7 seconds". Lmao at this absolute dork.

 

[anti -e-bike]

Does anyone have access to the article?

https://archive.li/AHx31

with pictures

 

[Divergence]

The guy is a 2020 TdF stage winner. Im pretty sure he knows what he is talking about.

One of the great fallacies is that pro riders know what they are talking about when it comes to technology. Just listen to some of Dowsett's interviews/podcasts.

 

[pelotonIQ]

Here you go:

Tour de France confronts a new threat: Are cyclists using tiny motors?​

Kevin Sieff
MUR-DE-BRETAGNE, France — After the world’s best cyclists charged up the final climb in Stage 7 of the Tour de France, passing a roaring crowd at the finish line, a group of officials in black polo shirts darted toward their bikes.
The officials put red bracelets on the carbon frames. Their job was to conduct a little-known check in one of the world’s most scandal-stained sports: The bikes were being inspected for tiny motors.
Eight bikes were wheeled to a black tent a few feet from the podium, the handlebar tape still wet with riders’ sweat. One belonged to the winner of the stage, Tadej Pogacar. The other bikes belonged to riders who cycling officials had targeted based on questionable performances or tips.

This was what I always was saying in this forum (that Pogacar's bike is regularly checked). Now with this article, you can also hear it from the horses mouth too. They found no motor in Tadej's bike.

 

[ashhutch1997]

yep, i recently brought in my 2015 Cannondale Supersix for a tune up and the mechanic couldn't believe how light it was, with just regular old Mavic Ksyrium wheels on it too. he said the disc brake bikes he usually works on now are so much heavier.

Yeah I had a Specialized Venge disc brake but sold it and went back to rim brakes. Lighter, faster and more reliable. Modern bikes are way to overcomplicated.

 

[ashhutch1997]

This was what I always was saying in this forum (that Pogacar's bike is regularly checked). Now with this article, you can also hear it from the horses mouth too. They found no motor in Tadej's bike.

A lot of us on here don't believe that motors are being used. I personally think Gianetti has found a new form of EPO, that's less detectable than CERA, his other find.