I was a massive Pogacar fan, but last the last 2 years were just too much. I don't nessacerly have an issue with pro athletes doping, but it's gotten to a stage where it's completely taking the p*ss.[deleted]
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I was a massive Pogacar fan, but last the last 2 years were just too much. I don't nessacerly have an issue with pro athletes doping, but it's gotten to a stage where it's completely taking the p*ss.[deleted]
But 2024 TdF PdB is a very valid point of reference. For the record I think they are all doing something. But I do tire of a lack of objectivity in The Clinic by rival fans.With this I have to totally disagree with. It wasn't this particular day or performance, but the way this one guy does anything he wants, when ever he wants in an endurance sport. I might be a bit biased, cause I like Remco because of his natural progression and ability. I would also turn against him if he started doing poggie kind of seasons, it is just not beliavable. And now matter what anyone tried to convince me about, I will never believe that pog is naturally more talented than Remco or even MDVP. It would have never happened, but if it was without Gianetti&Co this dominance, but nah never. In an endurance sport like cycling the pog-thing is not real in a modern highly professional peloton. We used to laugh at the Landis raid, Froome was bad, Contador was suspect often, but now something way! more unbeliavable is the new normal. I am just out of words anymore.
But on Gianetti, he made a name for himself with Ricciardo Ricco at the 2008 TdF. But Mauro Gianetti is no Dr Michele Ferrari. Maybe this is UAE money? Just trying to explain impartially.
I knew it would happen before the start (see my earlier post). He's never been a one day racer and end of season form has been poor, so it was obvious it was for the team, or money,or both.Also, why did Jonas pull the pin with 109 km to go? Why did he show up if he was in such poor form? Disappointing.
I don't know what your point is. The entire UAE team has been riding at a ridiculous level, so Vine's performance, who has always been fast in the TT, is little surprising. Look at how Almeida almost won the Vuelta. I doubt Pogi destroying Remco in the WCITT, would have been prudent before what they expected (and got) in Kigali and yesterday. Utter carnage. Even UAE must realize when gluttony becomes excessive. For the conspiracy theorists, perhaps they only gave him a normal bike in the TT to cool things down a bit.but then why let Vine be so much ahead... it if was team picture, that was being managed, that part didn't help it... also it seems rather funny image management, to then dominate again on the next weekend. No sorry, I won't buy this as the excuse that can take the blame for my great disappointment.
I thought Gianetti made a name for himself by being a doped rider during a very dirty period of racing and almost dying from doping? And then, yes, managing multiple teams with dopers galore.But on Gianetti, he made a name for himself with Ricciardo Ricco at the 2008 TdF. But Mauro Gianetti is no Dr Michele Ferrari. Maybe this is UAE money? Just trying to explain impartially.
It has nothing to do with one particular climb or even a whole GT. I don't believe that the others are clean either, come on it's pro cycling. The thing just is, that this pog(and UAE) madness is so far ahead of anything natural and what has ever been seen, that it just makes the sport unbearable these days. And yes I don't believe in miracles like this and can't dream big 😉like one infamous cheater said back in the day and that the thig he was doing, wasn't even close to being this crazy.But 2024 TdF PdB is a very valid point of reference. For the record I think they are all doing something. But I do tire of a lack of objectivity in The Clinic by rival fans.
Pog, Vingegaard and Remco all went under Pantani’s record by a significant margin that day. Vingegaard did despite his well known comeback from massive injuries. Remco, who you find more believable, beat a 57Kg EPO fueled rider by over 1 minute on an 8% 16km MTF at the end of a huge stage in hot weather. Clean? Not sure how?
IMO the doping omertà held because it doesn’t matter if other riders have a doping advantage of you are simply not doping as effectively why would you stir the pot? I think the term I read was “don’t spit in the soup”?
The other point not being discussed is age. You refer to natural progression. Pog was barely 20 years old when he came to UAE. Nobody is at peak level then. Everyone gets better in their mid 20’s to early 30s. Pog is now 26. Maybe we all need to look out for Del Toro now?
But on Gianetti, he made a name for himself with Ricciardo Ricco at the 2008 TdF. But Mauro Gianetti is no Dr Michele Ferrari. Maybe this is UAE money? Just trying to explain impartially.
The point is Ricco was laughable. Nobody was surprised when he was busted for CERA. And pretty sure Saunier Duval wasn’t the only team with dodgy management who are still involved in other teams today?I thought Gianetti made a name for himself by being a doped rider during a very dirty period of racing and almost dying from doping? And then, yes, managing multiple teams with dopers galore.
It's like Gianetti has never known a non-doping method of racing.
And of course there is Matxin.
Exactly. I probably dislike Remco even more than Tadej haha. Though I still hope he can beat Pogacar same as I welcome anyone who can for the sake of competition. I am Dutch and sure I will be biased towards MVDP but still I am actually more supportive of Van Aert. I guess I often just choose the underdog... Again, for the sake of competition.[deleted content]
I am not sure this was entirely correct but from what I read Pogacar arrived very late in Kigali, this could affect his state of mind his energy et cetera. And that in itself shows he's human, doped or not, everyone can still be affected by circumstances, diseases and so on. I think Pogacar just didnt prep ideally, yet let's not forget, its not like Pogacar completely failed, still rode a fine TT.I don't know what your point is. The entire UAE team has been riding at a ridiculous level, so Vine's performance, who has always been fast in the TT, is little surprising. Look at how Almeida almost won the Vuelta. I doubt Pogi destroying Remco in the WCITT, would have been prudent before what they expected (and got) in Kigali and yesterday. Utter carnage. Even UAE must realize when gluttony becomes eccessive. For the conspiracy theorists, perhaps they only gave him a normal bike in the TT to cool things down a bit.
Yet he would not totally dominate GT's, Paris Roubaix and so on and so on. No one is as all round as Pogacar is.The thing is, if Pogi wasn't racing, Remco would have won solo most of these hilly races. As he has done before. And Remco is also the sole superior ITT champ.
Had there be no Remco, Pogi would still not win any ITT. Olympics, WC, EuropeanYet he would not totally dominate GT's, Paris Roubaix and so on and so on. No one is as all round as Pogacar is.
Well yeah, hasn't it been the talking point that things have changed right around covid? Maybe the sport looked at what the past 20 years had done to it's image compared to other sports and changed it's narrative to forget about doping. It's of course disgusting that the approach to trying to catch cheaters doesn't bring nobility to the sport, but rather taints it compared to others, but that's the world we're living in.Cycling has been quickly recovering from doping for some time. There are way less questions and suspicions than 20, 10 or even 5 years ago. Pogi had to answer a lot of questions during his long leadership at the Tour'2021 but now he's simply the GOAT so no questions are needed.
Well yeah, hasn't it been the talking point that things have changed right around covid? Maybe the sport looked at what the past 20 years had done to it's image compared to other sports and changed it's narrative to forget about doping. It's of course disgusting that the approach to trying to catch cheaters doesn't bring nobility to the sport, but rather taints it compared to others, but that's the world we're living in.
Thanks for this. I recall that story. Not sure how many here actually read it closely enough to understand. Basically the biopassport boils down to tracking the 14 markers listed below against a rider's baseline (not sure how that is obtained either).Analysis of Aderlass athletes who were found to be blood doping showed no biopassport abnormalities, reinfusion seems to just occur at a smaller but more frequent rate as evidenced and as Dr. Fuentes suggested, I imagine there are also other workarounds;
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Biological Passport: Have dopers found ways to beat it?
Procycling investigates the cracks that have appeared in the tool credited with cleaning up cyclingwww.cyclingnews.com
I understand it is constantly being updated based upon new parameters, but given the hundreds of blood-doping positives in cycling and athletics since it's introduction that weren't also accompanied by AAFs I would suggest it just provides a stumbling block to this method rather than an outright bulwark.
I'm not sure about UAE, perhaps they have found something else more fast-acting, Vingegaard's program does feel like something that preparation is required for, hence him falling off a cliff today and in San Sebastian last time.
This is what I wrote a year ago and the time has given me the reason.One of the most succesfull season in cycling history, beating climbing records day in day out, winning races with historical solo breakaways as it was usual... and everything with Gianetti and Matxin behind close doors.
I wrote a message during last Tour about Matxin: this is his "modus operandi" and he is not going to stop. This time they are not in a random team like Saunier Duval, they are under the protection of a massive sponsor which is investing a lot of money to be the best and that's what are they doing, just being men o a mission.
I have to recognize that I don't watch a race where Pogaçar is involved since mid Tour de France. It is so obvious what is going to happen that I don't want to get frustated. I have been cycling fan since I was a kid and I never had the felling of being wasting my time watching a WWF show.
P.D.: I do believe in electronic or motor doping, just take the example of Foliforov in the Giro 2016 ITT.
That's so ridiculous. Suppressing critical voices. Hardly surprising for a team from the UAE.Hahaha! The omerta is alive an well. I made a couple of actually reasonable questions on pogs Instagram about the level, all year a round top form and never getting tired. No insults, no curse words and just honest questions. The comments got removed fast by the UAE/pog socialmedia team. Feels like im done, enjoy the clownshow then humanity. Just wondering if the UCI or UAE get any money from me if I stick to streams? 😂trying not to fund this dictatorship sponsored clownshow anymore.