Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[Stablo]

I was reminded of this in the 2024 Tour when all three riders were faster than Pantani's 1998 record time on Plateau de Beille:

New Top 100 Plateau de Beille: The takeover

1. 2024: 39:50 Tadej Pogacar 23.95 km/h 2. 2024: 40:58 Jonas Vingegaard 23.29 km/h 3. 2024: 42:41 Remco Evenepoel 22.35 km/h 4. 1998...

www.climbing-records.com

I wish the fan groups of other riders would try to be a little more objective when complaining about Pog's performances.

With this I have to totally disagree with. It wasn't this particular day or performance, but the way this one guy does anything he wants, when ever he wants in an endurance sport. I might be a bit biased, cause I like Remco because of his natural progression and ability. I would also turn against him if he started doing poggie kind of seasons, it is just not beliavable. And now matter what anyone tried to convince me about, I will never believe that pog is naturally more talented than Remco or even MDVP. It would have never happened, but if it was without Gianetti&Co this dominance, but nah never. In a endurance sport like cycling the pog-thing is not real in a modern highly professional peloton. We used to laugh at the Landis raid, Froome was bad, Contador was suspect often, but now something way! more unbeliavable is the new normal. I am just out of words anymore.

 

[Peyroteo94]

So many Remco fans here. Lovely!

 

[Peyroteo94]

With this I have to totally disagree with. It wasn't this particular day or performance, but the way this one guy does anything he wants, when ever he wants in an endurance sport. I might be a bit biased, cause I like Remco because of his natural progression and ability. I would also turn against him if he started doing poggie kind of seasons, it is just not beliavable. And now matter what anyone tried to convince me about, I will never believe that pog is naturally more talented than Remco or even MDVP. It would have never happened, but if it was without Gianetti&Co this dominance, but nah never. In a endurance sport like cycling the pog-thing is not real in a modern highly professional peloton. We used to laugh at the Landis raid, Froome was bad, Contador was suspect often, but now something way! more unbeliavable is the new normal. I am just out of words anymore.

"Might"? It seems you are a prime example of "rider x is doping because my favorite rider can't beat him".

 

[Stablo]

I've had a good laugh telling friends your idea of how he lost WC TT because they could not get motor past the border control. Seems they managed to find a guard willing to look the other way for the RR I guess
Of course, he didn't win more stages in the second half of the Tour because he wanted to manage the image... just like last years Vuelta... or that funny story hen they forgot to fill the motor battery before Amstel this year...

Wasn't Pogačar second strongest in the Flanders 2022? wasn't he in the same years winning HC finishes vs Jonas at the Tour? Pretty close to being both mountain goat and "a big boys classic dominator" (only thing that changed in big boys classics in this time is that he changed places with MvdP in Flanders, but how did he dare not win in the first appearance is really not nice of Pogi, also how dare he improve so much at 22 years of age).
Does it not make sense, that a rider that can routinely compete for the win in Flanders would also have good chances at Rubaix?
So being second (strongest) at Tour and Flanders is "realistically plausible," or was it not already in 2022? Because I thought the "transformation after learning to "train" at +25 years of age" made a difference in your eyes? Or does being first instead of second change everything?

Well i didn't understand even half of what your saying or trying to say, so let me just stay out of this🙏🏼border guard? Your friends? 🥹my story? Seriously what are you talking about?

 

[ashhutch1997]

So many Remco fans here. Lovely!

I was a massive Pogacar fan, but last the last 2 years were just too much. I don't nessacerly have an issue with pro athletes doping, but it's gotten to a stage where it's completely taking the p*ss.

 

[Peyroteo94]

I was a massive Pogacar fan, but last the last 2 years were just too much.

How many times did you write this?

 

[Stablo]

So many Remco fans here. Lovely!

Mostly cycling fans I think, but anyone than pog is my biggest fandom in cycling. When something is wrong it is wrong. To be honest even thou i sympathise Remco like i did on Contador before, but i would never accept pog kind of bs from anyone that i stand with in support. Never liked Lance, Froomie etc. either and they where easy on the level of cheating compared to this.

 

[Stablo]

"Might"? It seems you are a prime example of "rider x is doping because my favorite rider can't beat him".

How can you understand things so wrongly? You feel that pog is business as usual? Ricco vol. 3.0. or even more..geez even Lance didn't make me this frustrated with the sport I love. "My rider is not winning" is just so very lame. It has absolutely nothing to do with for example Remco, otherwise than it's just absurd.

 

[ashhutch1997]

How many times did you write this?

Loads of times . It's because people like to accuse people of being sad because Pogacar beat their favorite rider, which is not that case at all with me and lots of other posters.

 

[Stablo]

Hahaha! The omerta is alive an well. I made a couple of actually reasonable questions on pogs Instagram about the level, all year a round top form and never getting tired. No insults, no curse words and just honest questions. The comments got removed fast by the UAE/pog socialmedia team. Feels like im done, enjoy the clownshow then humanity. Just wondering if the UCI or UAE get any money from me if I stick to streams? 😂trying not to fund this dictatorship sponsored clownshow anymore.

 

[Stablo]

Loads of times . It's because people like to accuse people of being sad because Pogacar beat their favorite rider, which is not that case at all with me and lots of other posters.

This exactly. Yeah I Like Remco a bit more than the other riders, but it has nothing to do with this disgust for the current events. To be totally honest, all facts considered it would be more plausible for Remco to do these things especially in one day races, but i would freaking suspect it a lot if he was doing anything compared to the biggest cheat of cycling..and by far.

 

[Stablo]

Before I go to bed I want to say, that I have never understood these glory hunter fans. The ones that shout goat and maybe elevate themself while only rooting for the winner. That really requires a different set of mind.

 

[how yes no?]

Well i didn't understand even half of what your saying or trying to say, so let me just stay out of this🙏🏼border guard? Your friends? 🥹my story? Seriously what are you talking about?

Better for both us not to go down the rabbit hole, I agree.
Go on fanboying, but if I were you'd I'd be less worried about Pog damage control, because while Pog will be around, Remco will at best only ever be second, and start preparing some material for guys like Seixas and even his teammate Lipowitz (I'm sure he will have a different doctor than Remco), so you are not caught off-guard.

 

[Stablo]

Better for both us not to go down the rabbit hole, I agree.
Go on fanboying, but if I were you'd I'd be less worried about Pog damage control, because while Pog will be around, Remco will at best only ever be second, and start preparing some material for guys like Seixas and even his teammate Lipowitz (I'm sure he will have a different doctor than Remco), so you are not caught off-guard.

Which rabbit hole? What did i make to make you feel so offended? How on earth did you think that i had something to do with border control 🤯and you were even laughing it with your friends 🥲I do actually have some contacts around, but this just seems scary!!

 

[Cookster15]

With this I have to totally disagree with. It wasn't this particular day or performance, but the way this one guy does anything he wants, when ever he wants in an endurance sport. I might be a bit biased, cause I like Remco because of his natural progression and ability. I would also turn against him if he started doing poggie kind of seasons, it is just not beliavable. And now matter what anyone tried to convince me about, I will never believe that pog is naturally more talented than Remco or even MDVP. It would have never happened, but if it was without Gianetti&Co this dominance, but nah never. In an endurance sport like cycling the pog-thing is not real in a modern highly professional peloton. We used to laugh at the Landis raid, Froome was bad, Contador was suspect often, but now something way! more unbeliavable is the new normal. I am just out of words anymore.

But 2024 TdF PdB is a very valid point of reference. For the record I think they are all doing something. But I do tire of a lack of objectivity in The Clinic by rival fans.

Pog, Vingegaard and Remco all went under Pantani’s record by a significant margin that day. Vingegaard did despite his well known comeback from massive injuries. Remco, who you find more believable, beat a 57Kg EPO fueled rider by over 1 minute on an 8% 16km MTF at the end of a huge stage in hot weather. Clean? Not sure how?

IMO the doping omertà held because it doesn’t matter if other riders have a doping advantage of you are simply not doping as effectively why would you stir the pot? I think the term I read was “don’t spit in the soup”?

The other point not being discussed is age. You refer to natural progression. Pog was barely 20 years old when he came to UAE. Nobody is at peak level then. Everyone gets better in their mid 20’s to early 30s. Pog is now 26. Maybe we all need to look out for Del Toro now?

But on Gianetti, he made a name for himself with Ricciardo Ricco at the 2008 TdF. But Mauro Gianetti is no Dr Michele Ferrari. Maybe this is UAE money? Just trying to explain impartially.

 

[AlpRaid]

So many Remco fans here. Lovely!

if you did not have your own doubts, why are you here? why not just ignore all this bs?

 

[AlpRaid]

"Might"? It seems you are a prime example of "rider x is doping because my favorite rider can't beat him".

and you are a prime example of someone who started following cycling with the "emergence" of armstrong and had no idea he was a complete and utter fraud when all of Europe (and anyone who knew cycling) did.

the fact that you are simply remaking the same mistake you made before is sadly predictable.

 

[AlpRaid]

But on Gianetti, he made a name for himself with Ricciardo Ricco at the 2008 TdF. But Mauro Gianetti is no Dr Michele Ferrari. Maybe this is UAE money? Just trying to explain impartially.

lol. he made his name way before as a super-doped rider requiring emergency hospitalization (google it).

gianetti + cycling = doping.

all he has ever known is doping, and to extremes others didn't dare -- as a rider and then as a manager.

what made him suddenly stop?

there's nothing.

no way around that.

it's like in Armstrong's time. everyone in cycling knew that you only go to Ferrari for doping. all cyclists (and their wives!) knew what armstrong was doing (and why he desperately tried to hide it and then made up the excuse that he was only consulting him for a tilt at the world hour record - which of course was never the plan, and he never did).

if uae chose gianetti as DS, it was because he specifically had that track record -- why else would you hire a man with such a resume? if every success he had is due to doping, what insight could he possibly bring as DS to a supposedly "clean" team. zero. nothing.

it's why I simply laugh at anyone who listens to Bruyneel. what does he know about race tactics? all he knows is riding when you know you are more doped than all the other riders. how the hell does that help you with knowing tactics?

 

[Rob5091]

Also, why did Jonas pull the pin with 109 km to go? Why did he show up if he was in such poor form? Disappointing.

I knew it would happen before the start (see my earlier post). He's never been a one day racer and end of season form has been poor, so it was obvious it was for the team, or money,or both.

 

[Extinction]

but then why let Vine be so much ahead... it if was team picture, that was being managed, that part didn't help it... also it seems rather funny image management, to then dominate again on the next weekend. No sorry, I won't buy this as the excuse that can take the blame for my great disappointment.

I don't know what your point is. The entire UAE team has been riding at a ridiculous level, so Vine's performance, who has always been fast in the TT, is little surprising. Look at how Almeida almost won the Vuelta. I doubt Pogi destroying Remco in the WCITT, would have been prudent before what they expected (and got) in Kigali and yesterday. Utter carnage. Even UAE must realize when gluttony becomes eccessive. For the conspiracy theorists, perhaps they only gave him a normal bike in the TT to cool things down a bit.

 

[Ripper]

But on Gianetti, he made a name for himself with Ricciardo Ricco at the 2008 TdF. But Mauro Gianetti is no Dr Michele Ferrari. Maybe this is UAE money? Just trying to explain impartially.

I thought Gianetti made a name for himself by being a doped rider during a very dirty period of racing and almost dying from doping? And then, yes, managing multiple teams with dopers galore.

It's like Gianetti has never known a non-doping method of racing.

And of course there is Matxin.

 

[Stablo]

Meh, just meh, in highschool debate competitions it was 3 levels above this.

Meh, just meh, in kindergarten there were more meaningfull conversations, than trying to convince a pog fanboy aboutt the fact, that yes his hero is actually a cheat with the real world bad boys and money behind him.

 

[Stablo]

Better for both us not to go down the rabbit hole, I agree.
Go on fanboying, but if I were you'd I'd be less worried about Pog damage control, because while Pog will be around, Remco will at best only ever be second, and start preparing some material for guys like Seixas and even his teammate Lipowitz (I'm sure he will have a different doctor than Remco), so you are not caught off-guard.

Quite deep from you to teach about fanboyism, You will realise how ridicilous that statement was when you mature and understand the world around you a bit better.

 

[Stablo]

But 2024 TdF PdB is a very valid point of reference. For the record I think they are all doing something. But I do tire of a lack of objectivity in The Clinic by rival fans.

Pog, Vingegaard and Remco all went under Pantani’s record by a significant margin that day. Vingegaard did despite his well known comeback from massive injuries. Remco, who you find more believable, beat a 57Kg EPO fueled rider by over 1 minute on an 8% 16km MTF at the end of a huge stage in hot weather. Clean? Not sure how?

IMO the doping omertà held because it doesn’t matter if other riders have a doping advantage of you are simply not doping as effectively why would you stir the pot? I think the term I read was “don’t spit in the soup”?

The other point not being discussed is age. You refer to natural progression. Pog was barely 20 years old when he came to UAE. Nobody is at peak level then. Everyone gets better in their mid 20’s to early 30s. Pog is now 26. Maybe we all need to look out for Del Toro now?

But on Gianetti, he made a name for himself with Ricciardo Ricco at the 2008 TdF. But Mauro Gianetti is no Dr Michele Ferrari. Maybe this is UAE money? Just trying to explain impartially.

It has nothing to do with one particular climb or even a whole GT. I don't believe that the others are clean either, come on it's pro cycling. The thing just is, that this pog(and UAE) madness is so far ahead of anything natural and what has ever been seen, that it just makes the sport unbearable these days. And yes I don't believe in miracles like this and can't dream big 😉like one infamous cheater said back in the day and that the thig he was doing, wasn't even close to being this crazy.

 

[Cookster15]

I thought Gianetti made a name for himself by being a doped rider during a very dirty period of racing and almost dying from doping? And then, yes, managing multiple teams with dopers galore.

It's like Gianetti has never known a non-doping method of racing.

And of course there is Matxin.

The point is Ricco was laughable. Nobody was surprised when he was busted for CERA. And pretty sure Saunier Duval wasn’t the only team with dodgy management who are still involved in other teams today?