Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[TheKidsCallMeBoss]

They finance a team (which became the best in the world). They organize a WT stage race. They bought Colnago. MyWhoosh, headquartered in Abu Dhabi (Gianetti is a member of the board), organizes the UCI Esports World Championships (held in Abu Dhabi). They spend a lot of money in cycling (from their point of vue it might not really be a lot). Yet they still have no riders and no fans (you just need to have a look at the UAE Tour to see that there are more camels than people along the course).

Don't ask me why they're interested. Maybe some lunatic convinced them that cycling was an big thing, or they're run by a real cycling fan, or it's part of a larger “sportwashing” mission, or they just don't know what to do with their money. The fact is that for the past ten years, they've been really interested in it.


I find this way of reducing the Clinic to a battle between fanboys (the same that one can read till indigestion throughout the rest of the forum) quite insulting. In any case, I don't recognize myself in this kind of thing at all. And most of the time, I read less blind fanboyism in this part of the forum than elsewhere.

Have you ever did any kind of sport in your life? The process of a country producing a world-class athlete all of a sudden is not something that happens.

The UAE has been sponsoring cycling since 2017, and they have been winning major races since 2020. If a little Arab kid aged 5-7 thought this sport was cool, then it will take another decade or so for that to translate into results on the international stage. I checked the PSC website and found that there was no UAE junior national championship until 2022, but there is one now. I also saw that the champion came fourth in the 2025 Asian Championship. Of course, he will probably never be the best at world level, but that's what they call progress. The next generation may be even more talented than him...

It's ridiculous that people on a cycling forum are angry just because a country is encouraging its residents to take part in this sport.

By the way, the UAE is a rich country, not a poor joke like we are here in the EU. They invest in a variety of sectors of the economy, creating opportunities and jobs for local people. The money they invest in cycling is literally like a drop in the ocean. It's completely irrelevant to them, but folks act like they're trying to take over the world with it.

 

[Extinction]

Bottom line is this is the sport of cycling. You are not going to find any top pro who is squeaky clean. None. So sadly most of what gets discussed in the Clinic boils down to my doper is being beaten and I'm not happy.

This is disingenuous, sorry. I would have sort of agreed with you in the pre-EPO days, but no longer. Especially with the ever widening gap between the super funded teams, of which UAE is at the top, and the rest of the outfits struggling for the scraps to varying degrees.

The situation has only aggravated the cycling at "two speeds" phenomenon, which began in the 90s. I don't care if my doper gets beaten by someone else's. No, what annoys me is, number one, having a Gianetti directing the top team of the sport and, secondly, the fact that you give him 60 million euros from Middle East oil and you get a Pogacar. Now I don't doubt Pog has talent, but I also am quite sure he would not be destroying the field with 100 km solos, were it not for him riding for Gianetti with a 60 million budget to work with.

Each is free to find what is attractive and entertaining as they please. But for me this is not it.

 

[Lorzenz08]

This is disingenuous, sorry. I would have sort of agreed with you in the pre-epo days, but no longer. Especially with the ever widening gap between the super funded teams, of which UAE is at the top, and the rest of the outfits struggling for the scraps to varying degrees.

The situation has only aggravated the cycling at "two speeds" phenomenon, which began in the 90s. I don't care if my doper gets beaten by someone else's. No, what annoys me is, number one having a Gianetti directing the top team of the sport and, secondly, the fact that you give him 60 million euros from Middle East oil and you get a Pogacar. Now I don't doubt Pog has talent, but I also am quite sure he would not be destroying the field with 100 km solos, were it not for him riding for Gianetti with a 60 million budget to work with.

Each is free to find what is attrattive and entertaining as they please. But for me this is not it.

You forget that he does "100km solos" only when there is a climb hard enough. He can't do it on MSR or PR or any other flat course.

He uses his GOAT climbing abilities to create a massive gap, and then his rouleur abilities to maintain that gap.

He is just the best climber of all time and top 3 rouleur of his generation.

 

[Extinction]

You forget that he does "100km solos" only when there is a climb hard enough. He can't do it on MSR or PR or any other flat course.

He uses his GOAT climbing abilities to create a massive gap, and then his rouleur abilities to maintain that gap.

He is just the best climber of all time and top 3 rouleur of his generation.

Sorry, it's not credible in this day and age. The level is too high. Not even in the 80s did we witness such feats. It's a mockery of the sport on an outfit run by Gianetti, who is laughing all the way to the bank. It's truly a grotesque world, when the personification of doping himself, who nearly died as a result, makes a killing off the sport in this manner.

 

[Extinction]

I mentioned some. e.g. Emirates airlines are UAE. You can also Google what UAE invest in cycling, I added that up-thread. But that spend is dwarfed by what they spend on European soccer for example.

Evereything is relative, interject 60 million into a cycling team and bingo.

 

[AttaqueDeRolland]

By the way, the UAE is a rich country, not a poor joke like we are here in the EU. They invest in a variety of sectors of the economy, creating opportunities and jobs for local people. The money they invest in cycling is literally like a drop in the ocean. It's completely irrelevant to them, but folks act like they're trying to take over the world with it.

I hope this entire paragraph is satire. If not, it is pure and utter ignorance. There's really no in-between.

 

[aphronesis]

This is disingenuous, sorry. I would have sort of agreed with you in the pre-EPO days, but no longer. Especially with the ever widening gap between the super funded teams, of which UAE is at the top, and the rest of the outfits struggling for the scraps to varying degrees.

The situation has only aggravated the cycling at "two speeds" phenomenon, which began in the 90s. I don't care if my doper gets beaten by someone else's. No, what annoys me is, number one, having a Gianetti directing the top team of the sport and, secondly, the fact that you give him 60 million euros from Middle East oil and you get a Pogacar. Now I don't doubt Pog has talent, but I also am quite sure he would not be destroying the field with 100 km solos, were it not for him riding for Gianetti with a 60 million budget to work with.

Each is free to find what is attractive and entertaining as they please. But for me this is not it.

How does what you’ve said contradict the assessment of overall “discussions” in the clinic? UAE’s resources are tangent to that.

 

[aphronesis]

I hope this entire paragraph is satire. If not, it is pure and utter ignorance. There's really no in-between.

Dedocumented migrant workers in tent cities doesn’t signal opportunity for you?

 

[TheKidsCallMeBoss]

I hope this entire paragraph is satire. If not, it is pure and utter ignorance. There's really no in-between.

Would you like to explain yourself in more detail instead of calling others ignorant and highlight what is not true in that text?

 

[Divergence]

On the German broadcast today, the commentators pretty much said they believe Pog is doping and everybody knows who is the guy behind him, i.e., Gianetti. The English one Neve dares to open up that particular can of worms.

 

[kingjr]

On the German broadcast today, the commentators pretty much said they believe Pog is doping and everybody knows who is the guy behind him, i.e., Gianetti. The English one Neve dares to open up that particular can of worms.

Got a timestamp for me?

Nevermind, found it (around 11km before the finish). I'd say your post is about 40% accurate.

 

[Gianetti_Is_The_Goat]

On the German broadcast today, the commentators pretty much said they believe Pog is doping and everybody knows who is the guy behind him, i.e., Gianetti. The English one Neve dares to open up that particular can of worms.

It's all fun and games until the viewership drops because people don't want to watch this absurdity any more. It's ridiculous. Merckx' 1969 season doesn't even come close.

 

[Divergence]

Got a timestamp for me?

Nevermind, found it (around 11km before the finish). I'd say your post is about 40% accurate.

Hmm maybe with about 7km to go, but I am not sure.

 

[Extinction]

How does what you’ve said contradict the assessment of overall “discussions” in the clinic? UAE’s resources are tangent to that.

No, they, UAE resources, aren't tangent, but integral to the outlier, for all the reasons I said. As far as overall "discussions" are concerned, we may may as well watch YouTube! As they say, money talks, bullsh..it walks.

 

[Berniece]

On the German broadcast today, the commentators pretty much said they believe Pog is doping and everybody knows who is the guy behind him, i.e., Gianetti. The English one Neve dares to open up that particular can of worms.

A Belgian commentator was also questioning it all during the UEC RR. The other one was trying to spin it, that it's normal, but he wasn't having it.

 

[Unchained]

On the German broadcast today, the commentators pretty much said they believe Pog is doping and everybody knows who is the guy behind him, i.e., Gianetti. The English one Neve dares to open up that particular can of worms.

I didn't see the broadcast, but it will be really clear if German commentators have proof of doping or they and the network have awesome insurance and bank accounts.
Again I didn't watch or hear the German broadcast but they will likely not be doing much in bike racing if they said current TDF and repeat world champion is doping without proof in hand. It's not opening up a can of worms as much as multiple lawsuits against the network and persons making the claim.

 

[Unchained]

Got a timestamp for me?

Nevermind, found it (around 11km before the finish). I'd say your post is about 40% accurate.

This makes more sense.. A TV personality and network would be out of their minds to accuse someone of a serious crime without including the evidence that they used for the statement. Germany has a robust court system for liable and defamation. Crazy and costly.

 

[Divergence]

Got a timestamp for me?

Nevermind, found it (around 11km before the finish). I'd say your post is about 40% accurate.

Well, in my opinion, saying what they said on an official broadcast in German is tantamount to saying they believe he is doping.

 

[Unchained]

A Belgian commentator was also questioning it all during the UEC RR. The other one was trying to spin it, that it's normal, but he wasn't having it.

Your normal posts usually have a bit more detail, so are you saying that Belgian race commentator(s) accused Pogacar or UAE of a crime?
I didn't hear it, I seldom watch Belgian coverage, I do watch Spanish, English, French, Italian and German broadcasts , whatever comes up on my streaming service..and most of the time I get TNT, Eurosport or YouTube or Facebook stream from someone who has what I don't.
There are dozens of Mexicans that stream races that Del Toro is in.
I still miss my early experiences with steephill.tv..they would have a bunch of links to races..
curious does Belgian coverage have French and Flemish ?

 

[red_flanders]

Bottom line is this is the sport of cycling. You are not going to find any top pro who is squeaky clean. None. So sadly most of what gets discussed in the Clinic boils down to my doper is being beaten and I'm not happy.

This is disingenuous, sorry. I would have sort of agreed with you in the pre-EPO days, but no longer. Especially with the ever widening gap between the super funded teams, of which UAE is at the top, and the rest of the outfits struggling for the scraps to varying degrees.

The situation has only aggravated the cycling at "two speeds" phenomenon, which began in the 90s. I don't care if my doper gets beaten by someone else's. No, what annoys me is, number one, having a Gianetti directing the top team of the sport and, secondly, the fact that you give him 60 million euros from Middle East oil and you get a Pogacar. Now I don't doubt Pog has talent, but I also am quite sure he would not be destroying the field with 100 km solos, were it not for him riding for Gianetti with a 60 million budget to work with.

Each is free to find what is attractive and entertaining as they please. But for me this is not it.

Both things can be true.

• All top pros are almost certainly doing something
• Some teams still have meaningful advantages due to money, connections, corruption, etc.

And there's really no way to know what's fair and what isn't. There really can't be any long-held secrets, as riders move teams and likely spill the beans. But sure, one team might hold an advantage for a couple years. See Visma, then UAE.

 

[ashhutch1997]

It's all fun and games until the viewership drops because people don't want to watch this absurdity any more. It's ridiculous. Merckx' 1969 season doesn't even come close.

Yeah this is what will make them pull the plug, let's be real, I bet lots of people on here won't be watching I'l Lombardia, as we all know what will happen. If we on here, who are hardcore fans aren't tuning in, then the casuals will certainly get tired of it. The thing is, you see all the comments on posts of the race online calling him the 'goat', but the chances are these people haven't even watched the race, they just want to join the bandwagon, I bet they aren't watching the full 5 hour broadcast like us.
Regardless, I think the TDF next year will have its lowest viewing figures in the UK for decades, with TNT putting it behind a pay wall and also Pogacar's dominance. Who wants to pay £30 a month the watch the same guy win every race without even getting out of breath? I certainly won't.

 

[Berniece]

Your normal posts usually have a bit more detail, so are you saying that Belgian race commentator(s) accused Pogacar or UAE of a crime?

They didn't accused them. He openly questioned what was happening. He said he has been watching cycling for 30-40 years, and he can't explain this.

 

[AlpRaid]

He said he has been watching cycling for 30-40 years, and he can't explain this.

bingo.

 

[kingjr]

Well, in my opinion, saying what they said on an official broadcast in German is tantamount to saying they believe he is doping.

I'd prefer you'd post direct quotes before you tell your opinion, but it's your call.

 

[Extinction]

Both things can be true.

• All top pros are almost certainly doing something
• Some teams still have meaningful advantages due to money, connections, corruption, etc.

And there's really no way to know what's fair and what isn't. There really can't be any long-held secrets, as riders move teams and likely spill the beans. But sure, one team might hold an advantage for a couple years. See Visma, then UAE.

Money talks, bull-sheet walks. Trust fund does wonders. In any case, only a select few actually know what's going on at the top.