If cycling can survive Armstrong it can survive anything. Lance Armstrong was the biggest star cycling has ever had, even people who had no interest in cycling knew who he was and his story. Let's be real, unless you are either Slovenian or a cycling fan, the chances are that people have never heard of Tadej Pogačar.
It was mostly commercially driven and in this America excels. For the rest of the word at the time, outside cycling, most only knew of Armstrong through Nike publicity and it didn't increase the audience.
Armstrong was a big deal over here as well. My grandfather who wasn't even into cycling had his book at home and 8-year-old me was begging him to let me read it (he thought it wasn't appropriate for one as young as me, but I got him around after a couple of months). I still saw kids who weren't even into cycling wear Livestrong wristbands years later, and everybody knew who he was. Part of that's of course because Ullrich was huge at the time, so cycling got plenty of attention anyway, but Armstrong's story still had a big impact on its own (Remember, Ullrich didn't race in '99).
In Italy, as in much of Europe, Armstrong outside the cycling community was marginal at best.
How doe we measure that, and how do we compare that to cyclists in general?
Cycling globally is measureably less impactful than a host of sports, with Armstrong being noteworthy in relative stature.
It's a Byzantine administrative bureauocracy that works to sustain itself. Fighting doping has never been their true goal, but image management.
If you bury your head in the sand much more you'll pop out of the ground somewhere in Australia. Why are you even here? I'm sure there is a Pogacar is the Goat circlejerk thread on the forums here somewhere, you'll feel right at home.
The latter being the point that ashhutch made, right?
If it is too late to take that emotional investment back, I wonder how much active damage control is going on now to ensure nothing is exposed and the impression is given that the UCI has everything under control? The whole strategy and communication about motors seems to fit this picture. Most likely there is nothing at all going on but the show, including the useless checks using tablets, seems to fit in a strategy were they want to paint a picture of a clean sport.
Everything makes so much more sense if all that *** is performative.
None of this lets Pogi, UAE or Gianetti off the hook but objectivity is important. Merckx was still more ridiculous and there were none of the "methods" and sophistication around back then that we suspect today. I think blood doping had been tried but I haven't read anywhere that Merckx was into that or that blood doping was responsible for his records.
| Pogacar | |
2024 | 9959 km in 58 days | PCS points: 4588 | UCI points: 11655 |
| 2025 (7-Oct) | 8394 km in 49 days | PCS points: 4646 | UCI points: 10880 |
| Merckx | |
1974 | 15958 km in 93 days | PCS points: 5564 |
1973 | 14655 km in 87 days | PCS points: 5707 |
1972 | 14385 km in 80 days | PCS points: 6275 |
1969 | 12145 km in 73 days | PCS points: 4734 |
Right, but now the focus is a recrudecence of "everbody was doped then," but cycling has "faught the war," so now everything is ***-dory. Nothing to see just trust us.
In those days training was equal to racing so Merckx raced 1.5x as much.None of this lets Pogi, UAE or Gianetti off the hook but objectivity is important. Merckx was still more ridiculous and there were none of the "methods" and sophistication around back then that we suspect today. I think blood doping had been tried but I haven't read anywhere that Merckx was into that or that blood doping was responsible for his records.
But I am glad there were no online cycling forums back then
Objectively Pogacar is still a long way short of Merckx best seasons. Below tables are from PCS. And according to a Google search 1969 wasn't Merckx best year - 1972 and 1974 were.
Also check how many racing kilometres and days Merckx was doing compared to what they are doing now (assuming Pog is typical for the top riders today):
Pogacar 9959 km in 58 days | PCS points: 4588 | UCI points: 11655 2025 (7-Oct) 8394 km in 49 days | PCS points: 4646 | UCI points: 10880 Merckx 15958 km in 93 days | PCS points: 5564 14655 km in 87 days | PCS points: 5707 14385 km in 80 days | PCS points: 6275 12145 km in 73 days | PCS points: 4734
In those days training was equal to racing because sports science had not yet revealed it wasn't the best way to improve performance and recover. Yet Eddy Merckx still recovered from frequent racing to set those records.
It's not that easy. We gain nothing by addressing our concerns to people with vested interest in the sport. Also, with only a list of red flags and no hard evidence it is difficult to engage with third parties such as medical experts to give authority to doping use as it will be contested and countered by all legal options by an entity with no financial limits (UAE). Journalists with the financial means to thoroughly investigate and uncover clear evidence would be an option but currently it seems they are not involved in our sport. The other option is the police but they will only engage if there is a clear trace.
I know it isn’t easy but there are many millions of Euros at stake - even in this sport.
Vingegaard must have ticked the box marked 'let's make the most boring rider in the peloton the unlikeliest Tour de France winner' on the UCI's to-do list
Merckx was caught three times anyway.None of this lets Pogi, UAE or Gianetti off the hook but objectivity is important. Merckx was still more ridiculous and there were none of the "methods" and sophistication around back then that we suspect today. I think blood doping had been tried but I haven't read anywhere that Merckx was into that or that blood doping was responsible for his records.
But I am glad there were no online cycling forums back then
Objectively Pogacar is still a long way short of Merckx best seasons. Below tables are from PCS. And according to a Google search 1969 wasn't Merckx best year - 1972 and 1974 were.
Also check how many racing kilometres and days Merckx was doing compared to what they are doing now (assuming Pog is typical for the top riders today):
Pogacar 9959 km in 58 days | PCS points: 4588 | UCI points: 11655 2025 (7-Oct) 8394 km in 49 days | PCS points: 4646 | UCI points: 10880 Merckx 15958 km in 93 days | PCS points: 5564 14655 km in 87 days | PCS points: 5707 14385 km in 80 days | PCS points: 6275 12145 km in 73 days | PCS points: 4734
In that region of that era were all the biggest talents, so what is your point? You can't mix apples with oranges. Or else we could magically put Pogi in the Merckx era and vice versa.
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