Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[Ripper]

The photo in that post is clearly a grimace. Obviously you missed that when watching live. Yes maybe nearer the top. But that is also where the effort of his attack would show as the body switches from anaerobic to aerobic and lactic acid energy systems.

It was also not a seated attack as others complain of.

Again, of course I think he is doping so our concern here is unfair advantages. I just prefer to try to be objective. A lot of stuff gets posted in The Clinic which isn’t.

I get that the photo shows a grimace! 🤣 But if it was near the top of the climb, wasn't that like 4-5 kilometers after his attack? My point was that typically after a strong effort you will see signs of heavier breathing/physical compensation, especially if you continue to ride hard. This is important because it suggests Pog could have gone much harder if he needed to.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

I get that the photo shows a grimace! 🤣 But if it was near the top of the climb, wasn't that like 4-5 kilometers after his attack? My point was that typically after a strong effort you will see signs of heavier breathing/physical compensation, especially if you continue to ride hard. This is important because it suggests Pog could have gone much harder if he needed to.

Pog hardly ever breathes very hard. Recently I saw it during his Rwanda TT so maybe high altitude hit him hard there. It's also true that if you breathe too hard you are too much into the red and your effort intensity is impossible to continue for long.

 

[Gianetti_Is_The_Goat]

The photo in that post is clearly a grimace. Obviously you missed that when watching live. Yes maybe nearer the top. But that is also where the effort of his attack would show as the body switches from anaerobic to aerobic and lactic acid energy systems.

It was also not a seated attack as others complain of.

Again, of course I think he is doping so our concern here is unfair advantages. I just prefer to try to be objective. A lot of stuff gets posted in The Clinic which isn’t.

Who cares?
The point remains that he dominates everywhere all the time against any opposition and beats them by a large margin and this season they crush the number of team victories without a decent sprinter...

 

[Cookster15]

Who cares?
The point remains that he dominates everywhere all the time against any opposition and beats them by a large margin and this season they crush the number of team victories without a decent sprinter...

Plenty. I merely responded to a comment claiming Pogacar showed no pain or effort when he attacked. Clearly untrue.

Take it to the UCI or a journalist you are not going to solve Pogacar or Gianetti here.

I’ve also challenged the meme of the OP that as a yet to turn 20 year old he had achieved nothing before he came to UAE. Few do at that age, even those you presumably believe in. Paul Seixas is an outlier.

 

[Stablo]

The difference between Pogacar in TTs and RRs is something that needs explanation beyond a simple "he is better on a road bike" answer. In an RR he attacks 40, 50, 70, 80 km and gains a minute or more on the best TT rider in decades and in a 20, 30, 40 km TT it's basically the opposite. The difference in aerodynamics between a TT setup and RR setup cannot explain the difference. Pogacar spend a lot of time in windtunnels too. Pogacar's attack during a RR with superior climb speed is also only part of the story as it only explains part of the time gap. So it basically must come down to difference in performance decline during a +200 km race? But this is strange too because the attack on the climb should deplete the reserves of Pogacar faster while Remco has exceptional recovery too during a hard race. So what makes Pogacar the better TT rider during the final of a RR while he is so far off in a TT? Merckx excelled at both. Remco excels at both (relative to everyone except Pogacar as we have seen during his last 3 RRs). Pogacar needs the road bike to excel.

This is truly strange and have also mentioned it before. In the WC the difference was hilarious, a few training days and a week between doesn't explain that. If you leave the ridicilous watt bombs in the climbs behind, it's truly unbeliavable how well he can maintain and open up a gap to everyone else on the flat and rolling terrain, specially to an aerobullet like Remco. Yesterday wasn't even that attritional before the attack, that it should be some recovery thing. It just doesn't make any sense when you compare how the two riders look on the bike.

 

[Stablo]

there are buttons (usually used for shifting) in di2 shifter on top of hoods Pogi has... now of course for the cult around here, this is just a perfect excuse, cause they will say oh how nice, they just re-programmed the buttons to control the motor ^^

I don’t think the pressing the buttons necessary explains anything, but at least i haven't seen others doing it so clearly almost every time they attack. What is more of a cult, the ones that believe this all year around super form and "Landises" or the once that thing something is seriously rotten.

 

[Stablo]

Pog hardly ever breathes very hard. Recently I saw it during his Rwanda TT so maybe high altitude hit him hard there. It's also true that if you breathe too hard you are too much into the red and your effort intensity is impossible to continue for long.

Or is it only cause of the TT-bike, that he really needs to make an effort for once😉

 

[Revelation]

Lol thank you for your attention to this matter and for completely missing the point. I am so glad you are happy with the current "situation" 😍like I said, even the state of the forum has gone bad. (I still really hope I don't get banned again for saying how I feel😅)

You should react with to a couple more thousand posts, that is sure to turn the forum around. Keep up the good work.

 

[Peyroteo94]

This constant thinking on doping, totally ignoring his change of coach is what makes this thread unreadable sometimes.
Is he doping? Of course. Nothing changed after 2023 when we talk about doping. But I can assure you his training methods improved massively but some here just like to hate and try to ignore his change in coaching at all costs.

 

[Netserk]

Take it to the UCI or a journalist you are not going to solve Pogacar or Gianetti here.

Close the clinic then.

Funnily enough, that has never been your line in Vingegaard's thread here despite plenty of activity in it.

 

[Netserk]

This constant thinking on doping, totally ignoring his change of coach is what makes this thread unreadable sometimes.
Is he doping? Of course. Nothing changed after 2023 when we talk about doping. But I can assure you his training methods improved massively but some here just like to hate and try to ignore his change in coaching at all costs.

Lol. Of course his training changed too, but non-dope factors don't lift someone already so good so much.

When do you think he started using CO?

 

[SorelyBoy]

My main issue with Pogacar is since the his transformation post 2023, he's been full gas on top form from February to October, that just isn't human. He shows no sign of fatigue or building form.

Yes. And then, just every so often, he looks comparatively normal, at least a level or two below what we expect from him. That translates into a poor/just ok ITT or a top 5/podium placement in a one day race. Then, the next day or next race he’s superhuman again, without need to find form again or ride defensively through a period of illness. In fact, when he’s been under the weather he often still rides better than anyone else. And those accelerations, at least Nibali just held on to the team car and did it in plain sight.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Lol. Of course his training changed too, but non-dope factors don't lift someone already so good so much.

When do you think he started using CO?

In 2023 he was using for sure.

 

[Netserk]

In 2023 he was using for sure.

For sure? Has he said so?

 

[Peyroteo94]

Lol. Of course his training changed too, but non-dope factors don't lift someone already so good so much.

When do you think he started using CO?

I can't agree with you. I don't expect his doping program to be better than what Visma is doing. Simon Yates won a Giro and he was dead for 5 years.
There are 2 differences in Pogacar's training that seem to nake a huge difference:
- Heat training. How the hell wasn't he doing this with San Milan?
- Strenght training (specially core training). San Milan is against this (off bike) even if multiple articles say otherwise.

I could add his body composition clearly changed in the last years. Comparing 2021 Pogacar with 2024 or 2025 Pogacar is like comparing night and day.

It's very obvious Pogacar wasn't well coached. He even said he felt alone after his crash in 2023 LBL.
These are things I didn't invent. I will leave here a podcast with Sola.

View: https://youtu.be/oO7izytuYPQ?si=tIizzFfQ5jKi09I0

 

[Peyroteo94]

For sure? Has he said so?

I found this article.

“Carbon monoxide rebreathing is a method to assess total haemoglobin mass and has been used in altitude training and research for over 20 years,” a statement from UAE said. “It is a well-established, safe, professional method that is backed by a very large amount of research

Road cycling: how a legitimate blood test became the focus of performance abuse claims

Carbon monoxide rebreathing, which may give riders an edge, caused controversy at this year’s Tour de France

www.theguardian.com

 

[BubbaChuck]

remco was completelly cooked,when pog went.and we are talking about pogacar,lmaoo.

 

[Netserk]

I found this article.

“Carbon monoxide rebreathing is a method to assess total haemoglobin mass and has been used in altitude training and research for over 20 years,” a statement from UAE said. “It is a well-established, safe, professional method that is backed by a very large amount of research

Road cycling: how a legitimate blood test became the focus of performance abuse claims

Carbon monoxide rebreathing, which may give riders an edge, caused controversy at this year’s Tour de France

www.theguardian.com

There is nothing in the article about Pogi using it before 2024. Not even about UAE using it before that.

They confirmed last year that Pogi used it (legally), but afaik have never ever confirmed use before last year.

 

[Netserk]

I can't agree with you. I don't expect his doping program to be better than what Visma is doing. Simon Yates won a Giro and he was dead for 5 years.

That's irrelevant to my point. For argument's sake, the UAE doping program could be from the stone age in 2023, and then in 2024 they merely caught up with Visma. That is still an improvement stemning from doping.

 

[TheKidsCallMeBoss]

Won the Tour de l'Avenir without winning a stage and was pretty passive, then got humbled by Marc frigging Hurshi in the U23 world championships. Then joins UAE and Gianetti and becomes a mutant overnight.

Do people here actually watch cycling, or are they just professional 'experts' on the clinic?

Pogacar won the Tour de l'Avenir by a bigger margin than anyone else since 2010. He did so in a very competitive field, with almost everyone in the top 14 becoming at least a decent pro. Moreover, Pog was the third youngest in the top 14.

Tour de l'Avenir is a six-man national team race. It's not like he had Politt and Wellens there to control the break, then Sivakov, Majka, Yates, and Almeida started setting a fast pace and he attacked... the Slovenian team was weak and when the mountains came, he only had three teammates left.

Looking back at the 2018 Tour de l'Avenir mountain stages: stage 7, Colombia controlled and Sosa attacked, only Pog and McNulty were able to keep up with him. Pog worked the hardest, trying to open up the gap against the others, and at the end of the stage, he took the yellow jersey. McNulty, who mostly had a free ride behind Pog and Sosa, celebrated early at the finish line, and Sosa jumped ahead of him.

Stage 8. Again, there were many attacks, and Pog had to close the gaps alone without his teammates. Mader managed to gain an advantage on the descent and won the stage. Pog finished with the other contenders.

Stage 9. The queen stage. Pog attacked 18 kilometers before the finish. No one from the GC group could keep up with him. He caught Ries (who had gone a little earlier) quickly and dragged him to the finish line, almost catching up with the Spanish breakaway rider. Ries won the sprint, as Pog worked the most, setting the pace throughout the entire climb. But most importantly, Pog clocked more than a minute on the climb over the other GC contenders and cemented his GC lead.

Stage 10, last stage. Pog made a mistake or his bike was crap, I don't know. But he went off the road massively on the descent. He lost more than a minute, spent almost the entire stage riding solo to catch up with the GC group, managed to make up for the more than one-minute deficit, and celebrated his overall victory at the finish line.

 

[ColonelKidneyBeans]

This constant thinking on doping, totally ignoring his change of coach is what makes this thread unreadable sometimes.
Is he doping? Of course. Nothing changed after 2023 when we talk about doping. But I can assure you his training methods improved massively but some here just like to hate and try to ignore his change in coaching at all costs.

I think the "new training" excuse rubs people the wrong way because when he was already insanely good between 2020-23, there was no end to the "San Millan is a genius! Z2!!!" narrative, but now when there's a need to explain another massive jump in performance, he's suddenly a hack.

 

[dr.eve]

This constant thinking on doping, totally ignoring his change of coach is what makes this thread unreadable sometimes.
Is he doping? Of course. Nothing changed after 2023 when we talk about doping. But I can assure you his training methods improved massively but some here just like to hate and try to ignore his change in coaching at all costs.

You want to hear people saying he has a better coach now? Sure fine here you go, he has a better coach now and that must have let to some improvements and also tactically.

I also think Pogacar is talented and very skilled, doping aside.

For me this topic is about him doping and Gianetti's role in it.

For me the main thing is his top shape all year long, showing dominance on speed dial.

Some people here recently suggested that this is not odd because others simply never attempted it. I am fairly confident that if a MVDP or anyone else felt physically they could continue going on without a longer break they would damn sure do so. Only, and really only out of everyone, Pogacar is an exception to this.

 

[Peyroteo94]

You want to hear people saying he has a better coach now? Sure fine here you go, he has a better coach now and that must have let to some improvements and also tactically.

I also think Pogacar is talented and very skilled, doping aside.

For me this topic is about him doping and Gianetti's role in it.

For me the main thing is his top shape all year long, showing dominance on speed dial.

Some people here recently suggested that this is not odd because others simply never attempted it. I am fairly confident that if a MVDP or anyone else felt physically they could continue going on without a longer break they would damn sure do so. Only, and really only out of everyone, Pogacar is an exception to this.

I want people to be a little bit more rational and not say he had an improvement like "donkey" Froome. This significant leap in his performance looks way more related to his change in coaching than doping related. Gianetti is there since 2019 (when Pogacar started to ride with UAE).

 

[Netserk]

I want people to be a little bit more rational and not say he had an improvement like "donkey" Froome. This significant leap in his performance looks way more related to his change in coaching than doping related. Gianetti is there since 2019 (when Pogacar started to ride with UAE).

I think the two are intertwined. Not only that Sola also changed his doping program, but that the change in doping program allowed him to train differently.

And when the improvement is so big (from an already very high level), different training alone is not anywhere near able to account for it.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

I want people to be a little bit more rational and not say he had an improvement like "donkey" Froome. This significant leap in his performance looks way more related to his change in coaching than doping related. Gianetti is there since 2019 (when Pogacar started to ride with UAE).

Its said that Froomey ran faster than lions back in Africa before he got that godzilla disease. He still recovered well and won 4 Tours (next year epic battle for 5th vs Pogi).