- Jul 7, 2013
- 8,255
- 15,118
- 23,180
If the bio passport can't detect such a strong boost then it's pretty much useless nowadays (it definitely wasn't the case in 2010s during the great "slowdown").
The biological passport is hopefully updated and adopted to current situation? It should be possible to test for new artificial hemoglobin variants.
- May 22, 2024
- 547
- 737
- 3,780
- May 22, 2024
- 547
- 737
- 3,780
- Oct 13, 2024
- 175
- 319
- 1,530
I would hope so too, though I would not be surprised if it isn't. New tests are not always easy to develop, and if they are, sometimes they are costly and this can be a factor in what do you take a long in your testpanel and what not.
On top of that, the article linked previously also says it has a very narrow detection period due to its short halflife. That could make it rather useless to put in the bloodpassport. You may test for it but if in practice you can not actually detect it in most cases than it just gives an inaccurate image of fairness.
- Sep 14, 2019
- 713
- 1,276
- 8,180
A lot of people are discounting the fact that Pogi won Tour de l'Avenir with 0 team support at 19.. he literally had 0 teammates.
This simple fact shows that his margin of progression from that point was off the charts
This simple fact shows that his margin of progression from that point was off the charts
Last edited:
- May 9, 2025
- 463
- 665
- 2,980
- Apr 8, 2023
- 5,694
- 6,615
- 16,180
Bahrain and UAE had connections to Slovenian cycling clubs back then, so it's not surprising that Pogi ened up with one of the two.
- May 22, 2024
- 547
- 737
- 3,780
- Jul 31, 2024
- 832
- 895
- 4,180
I saw a post of someone about this thread on the remco thread is the next merckx thread.
Not sure if i posted this there and it was removed or i forgot to press the post button.
But perhaps it's better I post this here to begin with.
Your post in the remco thread is bit weird.
You mention his clinic thread, not his main thread. It's only natural for people to be talking about Pogacar in his clinic thread. It's a thread were people discuss possible doping use.
It ain't a good sign that all riders seem to be able to surpass the records of known doped riders with seeming ease. But Pogacar more than anyone looks like a red flag.
From his entourage (Gianetti), from some of his comments denying involvement with carbon monoxide when his team acknowledged it's use a day later, from his riding style, ... .
It would be strange indeed if people don't have questions.
I'm not sure if remco rides clean but if i was betting man, i definitely would not place my bets on Pogacar riding clean.
Now maybe he never gets caught, or it's covered with the mantle of love like they did for Anquetil, Merxkx, Indurain, ... .
But him riding clean seems near impossible to me.
Not sure if i posted this there and it was removed or i forgot to press the post button.
But perhaps it's better I post this here to begin with.
Your post in the remco thread is bit weird.
You mention his clinic thread, not his main thread. It's only natural for people to be talking about Pogacar in his clinic thread. It's a thread were people discuss possible doping use.
It ain't a good sign that all riders seem to be able to surpass the records of known doped riders with seeming ease. But Pogacar more than anyone looks like a red flag.
From his entourage (Gianetti), from some of his comments denying involvement with carbon monoxide when his team acknowledged it's use a day later, from his riding style, ... .
It would be strange indeed if people don't have questions.
I'm not sure if remco rides clean but if i was betting man, i definitely would not place my bets on Pogacar riding clean.
Now maybe he never gets caught, or it's covered with the mantle of love like they did for Anquetil, Merxkx, Indurain, ... .
But him riding clean seems near impossible to me.
Cookster15
Moderator
- May 14, 2011
- 6,273
- 6,788
- 23,180
Suspicion of Pogacar is completely understandable knowing his off the charts performances and the history of cycling - and not just because of his association with Giannetti and UAE's resources. I can't imagine he would not be doping to achieve these historically incredible levels.
However, based upon the watts / kg against historical performances in the EPO era I seriously doubt any of the top GC contenders are riding clean. e.g. In the 2024 Tour, Remco also beat Marco Pantani's unfettered EPO fueled PdB record by over a minute (6.4W/Kg for 42 minutes).
Pantani's Alpe d'Huez record wasn't challenged during the Sky era whom many (most?) had accused of doping since 2012. But the AdH record looks very vulnerable now. Before 2020 it was generally accepted that 6 watts per kilo on >30 minute climbs was the ceiling for clean performances. Even during Cadel Evans time he was accused of doping and yet Evans's best climbing performance was below 6 watts / kg.
But really what this comes down to is unfair advantages. IMO that's why some Remco fans come to this thread. In 2024 it was Vingegaard fans. In 2022 and 2023 it was Pogacar fans who came to the Clinic to reconcile how their rider was beaten at the biggest race in the sport. It can actually be quite amusing after crucial MTF or TT stages in the Tour how fans of losing riders flood to the Clinic to protest. But that is why we have the Clinic!
To me what has happened since 2020 is still explained by an arms race. Visma -> UAE -> Visma -> UAE. Red Bull have the financial resources to make it a three way race. Watch Remco and Lipowitz next year in case Red Bull gives them wings!
However, based upon the watts / kg against historical performances in the EPO era I seriously doubt any of the top GC contenders are riding clean. e.g. In the 2024 Tour, Remco also beat Marco Pantani's unfettered EPO fueled PdB record by over a minute (6.4W/Kg for 42 minutes).
Pantani's Alpe d'Huez record wasn't challenged during the Sky era whom many (most?) had accused of doping since 2012. But the AdH record looks very vulnerable now. Before 2020 it was generally accepted that 6 watts per kilo on >30 minute climbs was the ceiling for clean performances. Even during Cadel Evans time he was accused of doping and yet Evans's best climbing performance was below 6 watts / kg.
But really what this comes down to is unfair advantages. IMO that's why some Remco fans come to this thread. In 2024 it was Vingegaard fans. In 2022 and 2023 it was Pogacar fans who came to the Clinic to reconcile how their rider was beaten at the biggest race in the sport. It can actually be quite amusing after crucial MTF or TT stages in the Tour how fans of losing riders flood to the Clinic to protest. But that is why we have the Clinic!
To me what has happened since 2020 is still explained by an arms race. Visma -> UAE -> Visma -> UAE. Red Bull have the financial resources to make it a three way race. Watch Remco and Lipowitz next year in case Red Bull gives them wings!
- May 29, 2011
- 3,553
- 1,659
- 16,680
Agree it's an arms race but IMHO relative unfair advantages creating stupidly uncompetitive races do not cover it, because absolutely unreal performances (and juvenile celebration thereof) rub me the wrong way to begin with.
There have been questionable performances, but no effortless multiyear all season all terrain annihilation that we've never seen before. Get ready for 2026, because I'm pretty sure that the Mexican wonderkid who never won anything until he got in touch with Gianetti is on a similar program.
The TdF always raised eyebrows, but at least you could enjoy the rest of the season. That's over now.
I've been watching some vintage cycling races over the last few days (well, some races from 2022, but they really felt vintage to me). While I recognize all the riders (who, in my opinion, aren't racing by the rules either), I don't recognize Pogacar. What, unable to get in the breakaway? Six riders following his attack? A bad day? It was even a little frustrating, because I'm now used to the new Pogacar. Back then, he was still a normal rider. Probably the best, but normal.
When people came here after La Flèche Wallonne 2025, it wasn't because their favorite rider hadn't won. It was because they had shouted “WTF” at their screens. It doesn't matter who their favorite riders are, we don't care, because absolutely no rider had the slightest chance of keeping up with this attack.
The Pogacars of 2022 and 2023 would be crushed by today's Pogacar. At this point, it's a change of nature. I can't find any explanation outside witchcraft. That's not the case for the other riders. Not one of them.
I completely understand why a rider like Remco has to deny reality in order to keep going. I don't understand why a mere cycling fan would do so.
Armchair Cyclist
Moderator
- Mar 22, 2010
- 15,378
- 11,388
- 28,180
Moderator:
No discussion of thaumaturgy in this part of the forum please. That discussion is strictly limited to the Cauldron subforum.
Not necessarily off his charts, though. He has always shown tactical ability to win whether team support is present or not. He seldom seems to waste energy and that tactical skill is best learned young.
We compare him to Merckx based on wins. I would offer that he has qualities closer to a Lemond, who managed to work his way through adversaries on his own team to win. Not to mention a huge bias against a non-continental rider dominating the sport.
TRENDING THREADS
-
Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread- Started by DNP-Old
- Replies: 36K
-
Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread- Started by Lequack
- Replies: 41K
-
Teams & Riders The Great Big Cycling Transfers, Extensions, and Rumours Thread- Started by RedheadDane
- Replies: 13K
-
-
Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives- Started by johnymax
- Replies: 23K
-
Teams & Riders Jonas Vingegaard thread: Love in Iberia- Started by Samu Cuenca
- Replies: 10K
-
Teams & Riders Chris Froome Discussion Thread.- Started by Miburo
- Replies: 22K
Facebook
Twitter
Instagram