Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[Pozzovivo]

What are you trying to say?

That when a rider is a little stronger than the rest in this type of race. This is just how it looks. Vollering did a very similar thing to Pogacar one hour later. I'm trying to coutner the narrative that every time someone wins a race in impressive fashion, it must be doping related.

That it's normal that a guy dominates nearly every race on any terrain all season? Usually with ease and often with long solos.

Never said anything remotely close to this ever.

But I'd bet Vollering will probably dominate in stage races and ardennes, what does this tell us? Remco will too.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

What is the point of this comment?

"You probably also believed team sky were using blood bags" They didn't.

Its not that difficult to process. You made a broad statement as in "You've made up your mind a long time ago and the rest is confirmation bias". It deserved a response.

 

[Bronstein]

What is the point of this comment?

"You probably also believed team sky were using blood bags" They didn't.

Rozman and Mark Schmidt. Not to mention Leinders.

 

[Abedfo]

Well that frees my evening up then

 

[Gianetti_Is_The_Goat]

That when a rider is a little stronger than the rest in this type of race. This is just how it looks. Vollering did a very similar thing to Pogacar one hour later. I'm trying to coutner the narrative that every time someone wins a race in impressive fashion, it must be doping related.

Never said anything remotely close to this ever.

But I'd bet Vollering will probably dominate in stage races and ardennes, what does this tell us? Remco will too.

A little stronger? Have you watched the race? He attacked time after time and whenever the world champion ITT came too close, he just distanced him whenever he wanted. He then dropped MvdP and took 30 (!) seconds on him after the Paterberg. He performs the same superhuman performances every single time, whether it's a monster solo in Strade Bianche or an insane catch up in MSR. When do performances become too insane to believe? I'd love to know.

I don't care about women's cycling, but I'm pretty sure Vollering doesn't have Pogacars results of the past few seasons. Not by a long shot.

 

[TheKidsCallMeBoss]

Visma is checking the motor on Pogi's bike

https://twitter.com/x/status/2040840949195047368

View: https://x.com/BikeBlz/status/2040840949195047368

 

[Berniece]

MVDP said he was pushing 650 watts when Pogi rode away

 

[Red Rick]

That when a rider is a little stronger than the rest in this type of race. This is just how it looks. Vollering did a very similar thing to Pogacar one hour later. I'm trying to coutner the narrative that every time someone wins a race in impressive fashion, it must be doping related.

Never said anything remotely close to this ever.

But I'd bet Vollering will probably dominate in stage races and ardennes, what does this tell us? Remco will too.

Vollering hadnt done the majority of the pulling for the last 50 km

 

[Pozzovivo]

Vollering hadnt done the majority of the pulling for the last 50 km

Not a perfect comparison of course, and in the same sense, Vollering's competitors did not relay with her for the last 80-100 km either. I think the performances look quite similar. MVDP pulled maybe 40/60 with Pog? Remco meanwhile pulled 100% the last 50 km?

 

[Didinho]

MVDP said he was pushing 650 watts when Pogi rode away

Pogi did 640W for 1’13” there while being 8-9kg(?) lighter.

 

[Pozzovivo]

A little stronger? Have you watched the race? He attacked time after time and whenever the world champion ITT came too close, he just distanced him whenever he wanted. He then dropped MvdP and took 30 (!) seconds on him after the Paterberg.

Pog was 6-7 seconds stronger than MVDP on the last Kwaremont. If MVDP follows there perhaps they go to the line together.
It was very strong of course - as one should expect from a monument winning ride.

When do performances become too insane to believe? I'd love to know.

Well, for instance, I think some of the climbing performances in the Tour de france is pretty crazy - much more so than today's performance. But that does not count as real evidence of foul play. Imo. I'd like to understand more about how it is possible. But few serious journalists and scientists seem to care sufficiently.

I don't care about women's cycling, but I'm pretty sure Vollering doesn't have Pogacars results of the past few seasons. Not by a long shot.

Well, I do follow womens cycling and it's the rule rather than the exception of having the top riders winning from the first to the last race day, one days and GC's alike. Tiny, TDF GC champ PFP finishes second in RVV today! It's completely common.

 

[AttaqueDeRolland]

That when a rider is a little stronger than the rest in this type of race. This is just how it looks. Vollering did a very similar thing to Pogacar one hour later. I'm trying to coutner the narrative that every time someone wins a race in impressive fashion, it must be doping related.

It might be useful to look at patterns and the overall picture instead of feigning that this single race exists in some sort of vacuum. Today's excursion might not have been his wildest or most impressive ride, but the issue arises when one rider is likely to win all five monuments, the Tour de France, and the World Championship in one and the same season. And then we haven't even considered the fashion with which he wins these.

Maybe he "only" won by 34 seconds today, but what we witnessed today was a Tour de France-winning climber basically taking 80 percent of all the turns in the last 55 kilometers with arguably the strongest cobble-specialist of this generation glued to his back wheel, only to then drop him like a sack of potatoes once he saw fit.

You're absolutely correct that it doesn't have to be doping-related every time a rider wins a race in this fashion, but sometimes it would genuinely be moronic to dispel the notion. Again, it's not about this one win. It's about the bigger picture and the patterns.

Just to be absolutely crystal clear about the bigger picture and the patterns: This is a rider from a nation that very recently had a notorious and rather large doping scandal, who is riding for two of arguably the worst doping sinners in modern history, representing a nation state that has zero qualms with modern-day slavery, doing things that would have been considered so laughably suspicious if they had been done by Chris Froome or Lance Armstrong, all while basically breathing through his nose.

This particular bird looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, so what exactly do you think we're looking at?

 

[Pozzovivo]

It might be useful to look at patterns and the overall picture instead of feigning that this single race exists in some sort of vacuum. Today's excursion might not have been his wildest or most impressive ride, but the issue arises when one rider is likely to win all five monuments, the Tour de France, and the World Championship in one and the same season. And then we haven't even considered the fashion with which he wins these.

Maybe he "only" won by 34 seconds today, but what we witnessed today was a Tour de France-winning climber basically taking 80 percent of all the turns in the last 55 kilometers with arguably the strongest cobble-specialist of this generation glued to his back wheel, only to then drop him like a sack of potatoes once he saw fit.

You're absolutely correct that it doesn't have to be doping-related every time a rider wins a race in this fashion, but sometimes it would genuinely be moronic to dispel the notion. Again, it's not about this one win. It's about the bigger picture and the patterns.

Just to be absolutely crystal clear about the bigger picture and the patterns: This is a rider from a nation that very recently had a notorious and rather large doping scandal, who is riding for two of arguably the worst doping sinners in modern history, representing a nation state that has zero qualms with modern-day slavery, doing things that would have been considered so laughably suspicious if they had been done by Chris Froome or Lance Armstrong, all while basically breathing through his nose.

This particular bird looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, so what exactly do you think we're looking at?

Not really disagreeing with anything you say. But, the debate prior to my comment was about how this performance today was evidence of doping. The pattern seem to be that everytime a rider who many don't like, wins, then it's evidence of doping. Just go to this thread after Pog wins, Vingegaards thread after he wins, or anyone else like remco or mvdp.

That is the narrative I'm arguing against. This ride was, to me, not that different from what Vollering did to her competitors one hour later. She rides for the wholy church of FDJ - so where are all the conspiracies?

But to be clear, the overall picture is very suspect. I agree with that.

 

[E_F_]

It's completely unbelievable, ok big issue for sure. But if it was at least fun or unpredictable...

 

[E_F_]

I think the performance today was completely off the charts ridiculous. Clearly invincible, never in doubt, spent bullets all over the place. Remember spending bullets? This guy is a machine gun. It used to be, you only dominate if you raced smart. He didn't, but he didn't even seem tired anyway. And he wasn't racing against some bums, he was racing against MvdP and Evenepoel who are themselves completely unbelievable for asterisks sake!!

 

[Pozzovivo]

I think the performance today was completely off the charts ridiculous. Clearly invincible, never in doubt, spent bullets all over the place. Remember spending bullets? This guy is a machine gun. It used to be, you only dominate if you raced smart. He didn't, but he didn't even seem tired anyway. And he wasn't racing against some bums, he was racing against MvdP and Evenepoel who are themselves completely unbelievable for asterisks sake!!

He did get tired, why else did he slow down on the last kwaremont?

And he was quite similar to last year on the climbs today.

https://twitter.com/x/status/2040842917804142929

View: https://x.com/ammattipyoraily/status/2040842917804142929?s=20

 

[Cookster15]

the trick is to open your eyes
in combination with your cognitive possibilities
in order to fathom the deception

behold the charlatan of charlatans on his e-bike

the fool will fall

The onus is on people who think Pogacar has a motor to explain how that is possible? Its not difficult for his bike to be checked.

 

[ivanic]

that wheel doesn't convince me... a hybrid energy accumulator like kers is not impossible.

https://twitter.com/x/status/2040798304187867378

View: https://x.com/cyclingontnt/status/2040798304187867378/


what's next? where is WADA? everything happened while Froome was getting sticks in the face for HUMAN performances.

 

[Abedfo]

The onus is on people who think Pogacar has a motor to explain how that is possible? Its not difficult for his bike to be checked.

It clearly is difficult or they wouldn't use it.

 

[110]

The onus is on people who think Pogacar has a motor to explain how that is possible? Its not difficult for his bike to be checked.

it is not difficult to bribe people with money

see for example Hein Verbruggen
UAE = UCI
checking means nothing when everything is rotten to bottom
and full of corruption

perhaps you mean cheque

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

 

[AttaqueDeRolland]

He did get tired, why else did he slow down on the last kwaremont?

And he was quite similar to last year on the climbs today.

https://twitter.com/x/status/2040842917804142929

View: https://x.com/ammattipyoraily/status/2040842917804142929?s=20

Interesting times. 1 minute and 20 seconds faster in total than in 2023. Six seconds faster in total than last year, and his fastest third ascent so far. Tiredness is relative, so compared to earlier versions, it doesn't really look like he got particularly tired today.

 

[Gianetti_Is_The_Goat]

Interesting times. 1 minute and 20 seconds faster in total than in 2023. Six seconds faster in total than last year, and his fastest third ascent so far. Tiredness is relative, so compared to earlier versions, it doesn't really look like he got particularly tired today.

and all that after maintaining the distance to the World Champion ITT for 40 km.

 

[AttaqueDeRolland]

and all that after maintaining the distance to the World Champion ITT for 40 km.

To be fair, Remco is clearly washed, couldn't even keep Jonas at bay on the flats in Catalunya.

 

[Cookster15]

It clearly is difficult or they wouldn't use it.

Its not difficult. The wheels and bottom bracket are in plain sight. If the UCI is following its own rules his bike would be checked by a qualified mechanic after the finish. And all types of possible electro mechanical assistance will be seen if they look at wheels and disassemble the bottom bracket.

Plus the UCI claim to use x-ray machines. If all of this is not happening for major races then people need to be screaming - including rival teams as I've said before here.

It is far, far more difficult to scrutineer formula one cars for illegal devices and software.

 

[Red Rick]

Interesting times. 1 minute and 20 seconds faster in total than in 2023. Six seconds faster in total than last year, and his fastest third ascent so far. Tiredness is relative, so compared to earlier versions, it doesn't really look like he got particularly tired today.

He's like 5 minutes faster over the final 55km while taking way more turns and a much more aggressive pre finale.

Only caveat is I can't find his 2025 strava file quickly