TdF Stage 12 - Fri 16th - Bourg-de-Péage - Mende 210.5km

[slowoldman]

I think Contador's only tactical error today was not agreeing to gift Rodriguez the stage in exchange for sharing the work all out to the finish in order to put maximum time into Schleck. I believe he wavered and eased up somewhat because he wanted to see if Vinokourov could latch on and get the win.

And I think that tactical error says less about Contador's understanding of tactics and more about his desire to be a good teammate.

yup.
Vino rode well, he was upset at not getting a stage win (not at Contador going by him).
Contador's attack was fine too, hurt Schleck the Arrogant. (I mean Schleck the younger).
Where Alberto made his mistake in my opinion was not agreeing to gift the stage to Rodriquez, as mentioned by Cali.
I think that is what Rodriquez asked when Contador shook his head no. Rodriquez was obviously sitting on and could have provided a little more horsepower and possibly a few more seconds. Contador tried sprinting against him so I read that as he wanted the stage too. That was Contador's tactical mistake of the day, the only one.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Horner said it the other day... they're not going to burry themselves for a guy who is in 8th place (which Levi was in at that time Horner said this).

Unless, of course, that guy is Lance.

 

[theovaf]

OK this is a first after 5 years of following...
Vino is one of my fav riders as he seems willing to give his all anytime.
I would like him to win today as he worked hard for his team leader and still came 500m away from a stage win.
I am convinced that he is frustrated only by comming so close and not making it.
What Conta did was right, as he saw a chance and just went after it. Still he waited to see if Vino could make a comeback.

So here's my take
Vino drove the brake for Saxo to chase (job done)
Vino attacked the other three with a chance to win (done)
Vino had to survive in order to win (came close but didn't make it)
JR attacked to win (PERFECT)
AC countered
AS couldn't follow, so AC rode hard to the finish.
OK, maybe AC could have gained more than 10sec, but AS rides his bike too

 

[schnebit]

Unless, of course, that guy is Lance.

Hmm... I don't remember him saying that...

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Hmm... I don't remember him saying that...

He doesn't have to.

 

[CatsNK]

OK this is a first after 5 years of following...
Vino is one of my fav riders as he seems willing to give his all anytime.
I would like him to win today as he worked hard for his team leader and still came 500m away from a stage win.
I am convinced that he is frustrated only by comming so close and not making it.
What Conta did was right, as he saw a chance and just went after it. Still he waited to see if Vino could make a comeback.

So here's my take
Vino drove the brake for Saxo to chase (job done)
Vino attacked the other three with a chance to win (done)
Vino had to survive in order to win (came close but didn't make it)
JR attacked to win (PERFECT)
AC countered
AS couldn't follow, so AC rode hard to the finish.
OK, maybe AC could have gained more than 10sec, but AS rides his bike too

I love your summary. Thank you for this post!

 

[Oldman]

yup.
Vino rode well, he was upset at not getting a stage win (not at Contador going by him).
Contador's attack was fine too, hurt Schleck the Arrogant. (I mean Schleck the younger).
Where Alberto made his mistake in my opinion was not agreeing to gift the stage to Rodriquez, as mentioned by Cali.
I think that is what Rodriquez asked when Contador shook his head no. Rodriquez was obviously sitting on and could have provided a little more horsepower and possibly a few more seconds. Contador tried sprinting against him so I read that as he wanted the stage too. That was Contador's tactical mistake of the day, the only one.

And for the time being reinforces the desparate situation that Saxo has on their hands. I think AC will/should keep sitting on Schleck and following this script. It would be nice to have the jersey before the TT for insurance but more important to have Saxo blow their wad defending it for now.

 

[Bala Verde]

Post race interviews on letour.fr:

Vinokourov – “I have complete confidence in Alberto…”

It took over an hour for an escape group to go clear and when it did, the Astana representative was the ever-aggressive Alexandre Vinokourov. He led most of the way up the final climb but his team had to settle for second and third... and the ’Fighting Spirit’ award for stage 12.

“I remember this climb from the Tour in 2005 and also from when I won here in the GP Midi Libre early in my career. The last climb of the stage is only a little part of the way but I believe it was a good chance to get some time back on Andy.
“It is a little disappointing not to win the stage but again it was a good gain in the general classification. We certainly the team would have like to win the stage with either Alberto or myself but the circumstances didn’t allow that. There are still plenty of stages to come and I have complete confidence in Alberto.”


Andy Schleck – “The game can begin now.”

When a rider like Alberto Contador attacks on a steep climb like the one in Mende, it would normally be cause for serious concern for he who wears the yellow jersey. Andy Schleck is not an ordinary rider though, he kept his cool, mapped out a plan and stuck to it. Yesterday he may have said that he like the ‘Montée Laurent Jalabert’ but his appraisal had changed by the end of stage 12 even if he lost only 10 seconds to his main rival.

"This morning I counted on losing a couple of seconds to Alberto today because I really don’t like this climb. It’s on my black list. It’s really short and you cannot really find a rhythm so my plan was to just stay on his wheel but he never came past me. I tried to play it a little bit cool at the bottom but he just stayed behind me. Then he attacked at just the right moment and I was not able to follow.
“I just kept calm and I told myself, ‘Right, on the steep part I’ll hold my rhythm’… then at the top I wanted to speed up. And at the end he only gained 10 seconds, and that’s like what I took out of him at Morzine-Avoriaz.
“There’s no real lesson from today’s stage. I could not have done anything differently. The team did a really great job today. The race went really fast right from the start this morning and, after a while, there was a group out there with riders who were quite close in the classification but I said to the team, ‘Right, we ride and we keep them at a certain limit, but the riders who are out there are ones who I’ll gain time on in the Pyrenees… so even if I lost the yellow jersey, it’s okay’. If one of them took the lead, I would not really have cared because I am still only aiming to have the yellow jersey in Paris.”

 

[hrotha]

Lance is not Merckx, never was. On the other hand if Lance was in his prime I think he would have put 30-40 seconds into his rivals. I believe Lance will put in a show in the next few days.

Nevermind "Lance in his prime". This kind of finish was perfect for 1995 Lance.

 

[schnebit]

He doesn't have to.

That makes absolutely no sense... the comment was about Levi, not Lance.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

That makes absolutely no sense... the comment was about Levi, not Lance.

The point is that Horner would have never made that comment if it had been Lance in 8th place rather than Levi.

 

[Ryaguas]

Alberto had no teammates at the bottom of the climb, he was just following Saxo Bank wheels!

Of course... this climb was not that long to put Tiralongo and Dani to hammer like demons like is going to happen on sunday in Le Port de Pailheres or in Le Ax - 3 Domaines... today they were resting...

Alberto's probably the only guy in the peloton who doesn't need guys around him at the base of the climb.

That's true but for this climb in special he doesn't need help... is just too short and he know it PRETTY WELL...

Ok lets see what is going on in the twitter
El Pistolero

Dia muy duro hoy con final en Mende,recortando 10" importantisimos,marcada por la confusion en la situacion de carrera debido a la radio

"Tough day with the final in Mende, cutting 10'' very important seconds, marked by the confusion in the race situation caused by the radio"

mmmm Astana was having problems with the radio?
AS

Hard day didn't feel to good today!my team was awesome @albertocontador got your 10 second back from so we equal again

sooo a bad day ah?? told you Andy... take care about the things that you say...

about this day:

Here is the highlights of the stage 12 from versus

If you see the repetition: first when AC reach Vino he try to wait for him but Vino at that time was cooked, he close the gap in the flat but that wasn't enough... 2nd when AC and Purito were finishing AC was looking and looking back cuz he was checking Purito and cuz Vino was almost there but when Purito start the sprint AC had no other choice to do the same...

Vino was upset not with AC but with him cuz he almost got the stage victory but the gas wasn't enough and cuz Astana couldn't get the victory after all that effort... forget about Vino showing the door to AC or with problems in the Astana bus or another soap opera like that...

Astana tactics ALMOST perfect... a shame that Vino couldn't get the victory , AS back to the reality dropping BIG TIME and losing 10secs... he is really touched now cuz he now that AC can drop him and with the pyrénees hanging around this is a really bad news for him... and the pshycological impact woth it the attack and all the effort that AC made in this final climb...

Kreuziger dropping Basso? GREAT!!!! now I know that Roman have the "GO" from here to the rest of the tour... Menchov staying with AS? nice he is reaching his top form... also SSanchez could stay with AS too... Bad for Basoo, Levi and Gesink they were suffering in this pretty short climb, they have to be worried with the pyrenees almost there...

Anyway... great fireworks! Nice AC showing AS who is the real climber here, awesome job by Vino despite the final, Great victory by Purito Rodriguez, a shame that Ale-jest lost La maillot vert I hope that he will recover it tomorrow and I did it well with my predictions haha

P.S: Less trolling, more nice discussions =D

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

I don't think Gesink is worried of the Pyrenees because he is dropped on a typical anti-Gesink climb.
Same goes for Leipheimer, you can't get it more anti-Leipheimer than this.
Short, steep, super-explosive. I don't know why you see that as a sign for everything.

If you take this stage as base for what's going to happen. You're gonna be very suprised on sunday.

 

[Nickbeam]

I don't think Gesink is worried of the Pyrenees because he is dropped on a typical anti-Gesink climb.
Same goes for Leipheimer, you can't get it more anti-Leipheimer than this.
Short, steep, super-explosive. I don't know why you see that as a sign for everything.

If you take this stage as base for what's going to happen. You're gonna be very suprised on sunday.

ye, i agree with you. But Menchov's ability to stay with AS in such percentages and tempo gives me a lot of optimism

 

[Epicycle]

Really surprised to see Andy get caught unaware by Contador's attack. Especially since Alberto attacked at such an obvious time, after Rodriguez went. Andy had to realize this type of thing could be so dangerous, everybody knows Alberto and Rodriguez are the most explosive climbers in the peloton. Andy could have really used Frank today.

 

[joe_papp]

Nice summary re. Vino

OK this is a first after 5 years of following...
Vino is one of my fav riders as he seems willing to give his all anytime.
I would like him to win today as he worked hard for his team leader and still came 500m away from a stage win.
I am convinced that he is frustrated only by comming so close and not making it.
What Conta did was right, as he saw a chance and just went after it. Still he waited to see if Vino could make a comeback.

So here's my take
Vino drove the brake for Saxo to chase (job done)
Vino attacked the other three with a chance to win (done)
Vino had to survive in order to win (came close but didn't make it)
JR attacked to win (PERFECT)
AC countered
AS couldn't follow, so AC rode hard to the finish.
OK, maybe AC could have gained more than 10sec, but AS rides his bike too

+1

Excellent summary.

Vino was just epic today. It's great to see him doing exactly what he promised he would do, which is fulfill super-domestique duties on behalf of AC. It's great not to hear the anti-Vino brigade slagging him off anymore, as there's really nothing left with which to impeach him.

Does anyone note a stage still to come that offers Vino as good a chance to win as this one just completed? I'm really pulling for the guy and if anyone "deserves" to win a stage, it's him. Vino actually animates the race, and even better is the fact that now most of his ferocious attacks are also tactically-astute (whereas before, perhaps b/c of the charge, he was just as likely to attack dramatically but ineffectively, as he was to make a calculated display of power).

I may have to start a general "Vino's Comeback" thread, if there isn't one already.

Hmmm., I wonder if he's going to release his autobiography anytime soon; perhaps it could be sponsored by a consortium of Kazakh oil, gas and mineral companies and could feature a shot of Vino on the back cover in his honorary colonel's uniform (or whatever he is). And w/ a forward by AC thanking him for not stabbing him in the back during the Tour, a la Hinault to LeMond in '86.

 

[Ryaguas]

If you take this stage as base for what's going to happen. You're gonna be very suprised on sunday.

Nah I don't think so...right now nobody can afford to lose even a single second against others GC contenders, doesn't matter if the climb don't suit you or whatever reason that you might have...

What happen today is prolly what is going to happen on sunday... or maybe worse... I can't wait to see the real pyrenees taking his toll...

 

[BroDeal]

I wish Contador would not have taken over the pace setting from J-Rod and just followed him until (or if) the catch of Vino was made. Vino had a good chance of winning that stage if Contador would not have pushed the pace. Contador still would have gained a few seconds over Schleck.

 

[Cervelo77]

Astana tactics ALMOST perfect... a shame that Vino couldn't get the victory , AS back to the reality dropping BIG TIME and losing 10secs... he is really touched now cuz he now that AC can drop him and with the pyrénees hanging around this is a really bad news for him... and the pshycological impact woth it the attack and all the effort that AC made in this final climb...

I think you're overselling AC's advantage. Schleck hates this climb by his own admission. It's too short, more of a power climb. Ax-3 should be epic.

Kreuziger dropping Basso? GREAT!!!!

I don't disagree. I would like to see Kreuziger attack, if he can.

 

[CatsNK]

Hmmm., I wonder if he's going to release his autobiography anytime soon; perhaps it could be sponsored by a consortium of Kazakh oil, gas and mineral companies and could feature a shot of Vino on the back cover in his honorary colonel's uniform (or whatever he is). And w/ a forward by AC thanking him for not stabbing him in the back during the Tour, a la Hinault to LeMond in '86.

I hope it has LOTS of pictures. Actually, it could be all pictures and I'd be just fine with that.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

I don't think Gesink is worried of the Pyrenees because he is dropped on a typical anti-Gesink climb.
Same goes for Leipheimer, you can't get it more anti-Leipheimer than this.
Short, steep, super-explosive. I don't know why you see that as a sign for everything.

If you take this stage as base for what's going to happen. You're gonna be very suprised on sunday.

I like this Gesink kid, though frankly, he needs to start charging Leipheimer. All the other tow services charge.

 

[Publicus]

I think you're overselling AC's advantage. Schleck hates this climb by his own admission. It's too short, more of a power climb. Ax-3 should be epic.


I don't disagree. I would like to see Kreuziger attack, if he can.

That's funny because Andy was talking about putting MORE time into AC yesterday and that AC couldn't drop him. Now post-race he says that he always thought he would lose time, blah blah blah.

It reminds me of last year whenever AC gained time on him, he always chalked it up to something OTHER than AC just being better than him.

 

[Ryaguas]

I may have to start a general "Vino's Comeback" thread, if there isn't one already.

Hmmm., I wonder if he's going to release his autobiography anytime soon; perhaps it could be sponsored by a consortium of Kazakh oil, gas and mineral companies and could feature a shot of Vino on the back cover in his honorary colonel's uniform (or whatever he is). And w/ a forward by AC thanking him for not stabbing him in the back during the Tour, a la Hinault to LeMond in '86.

Plz Joe create it... I'm pretty sure that a lot of Vino's fans (as me) want to give their points of view and support about what Vino has done until now in the year and La Grande Boucle

I will be the first one in getting that BIO hahaha

 

[Kwibus]

ye, i agree with you. But Menchov's ability to stay with AS in such percentages and tempo gives me a lot of optimism

That was actually the biggest suprise indeed!

 

[Kwibus]

Nah I don't think so...right now nobody can afford to lose even a single second against others GC contenders, doesn't matter if the climb don't suit you or whatever reason that you might have...

What happen today is prolly what is going to happen on sunday... or maybe worse... I can't wait to see the real pyrenees taking his toll...

That's quite narrowminded as this climb was short and explosive and the climbs in the Pyrenees are long which requires different skills.