TdF Stage 12 - Fri 16th - Bourg-de-Péage - Mende 210.5km

[flicker]

+1

Excellent summary.

Vino was just epic today. It's great to see him doing exactly what he promised he would do, which is fulfill super-domestique duties on behalf of AC. It's great not to hear the anti-Vino brigade slagging him off anymore, as there's really nothing left with which to impeach him.

Does anyone note a stage still to come that offers Vino as good a chance to win as this one just completed? I'm really pulling for the guy and if anyone "deserves" to win a stage, it's him. Vino actually animates the race, and even better is the fact that now most of his ferocious attacks are also tactically-astute (whereas before, perhaps b/c of the charge, he was just as likely to attack dramatically but ineffectively, as he was to make a calculated display of power).

I may have to start a general "Vino's Comeback" thread, if there isn't one already.

Hmmm., I wonder if he's going to release his autobiography anytime soon; perhaps it could be sponsored by a consortium of Kazakh oil, gas and mineral companies and could feature a shot of Vino on the back cover in his honorary colonel's uniform (or whatever he is). And w/ a forward by AC thanking him for not stabbing him in the back during the Tour, a la Hinault to LeMond in '86.

Maybe Vino can ride on Bahatis' 2012 team. It could include Dario Frigo, Rebellien and our beloved Floyd, not to mention Botero.

 

[flicker]

I like this Gesink kid, though frankly, he needs to start charging Leipheimer. All the other tow services charge.

The problem is Levi is a midget and Gesink is a giant. Not much benefit tere for Bob.

 

[Kwibus]

I like this Gesink kid, though frankly, he needs to start charging Leipheimer. All the other tow services charge.

I'm pretty sure his intentions in the Pyrenees are to drop Leipheimer and VDB. Normally he should be able to do it, but then again you just never know. I mean Gesink is still young and it's his first real TdF as last year he was out after 4 days.

 

[Mach Schnell]

And I had previously mulled over the idea that we might have seen the end of the Contador mini-era.
Doh!!
Looks like AC is back "in-form", Schlecklet better look on the shelf for a can of whoop-a** to open up in the Pyrenees.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Maybe Vino can ride on Bahatis' 2012 team. It could include Dario Frigo, Rebellien and our beloved Floyd, not to mention Botero.

I know it's tough for you these days flicker.

 

[Ryaguas]

I think you're overselling AC's advantage. Schleck hates this climb by his own admission. It's too short, more of a power climb. Ax-3 should be epic.

I don't disagree. I would like to see Kreuziger attack, if he can.

That's funny because Andy was talking about putting MORE time into AC yesterday and that AC couldn't drop him. Now post-race he says that he always thought he would lose time, blah blah blah.

It reminds me of last year whenever AC gained time on him, he always chalked it up to something OTHER than AC just being better than him.

Dang you Publicus!!!! you stole my response!!! I will put you in my ignore list!!!!

as Publicus stole my answer I want to talk about Kreuziger... First I'm totally fingers crossed to see him in Astana with El Pistolero next year, I think that he will be a WAY better teacher and mentor than Basso... and if you put Vino in that formula well you have IMO the perfect trio... is a shame that Vino is getting old if he were just 4 years younger... sigh...

Now that we know that Kreuziger has green light to attack and go on his own we can expect more attacks from him... he has already attacked in the Tour, in Lamoura, but that attack wasn't successful... He wants to win an stage so he will attack soon!

 

[Nickbeam]

Gesink is doing really well. if he finishes in top 6 or 7, it would be great for him and his future. but he badly needs to improve his TT .

 

[hrotha]

I hope Kreuziger is better now than in the last mountain stage, I'd love to see him at least 5th and with a shot at the podium.

More importantly though, I love Van den Broeck.

 

[flicker]

I know it's tough for you these days flicker.

Ha, gotcha moose. Read back on me my 2nd choice after Lance was Kloeden, 3rd Wiggins 4th Contador. Go pistalero!

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Nah I don't think so...right now nobody can afford to lose even a single second against others GC contenders, doesn't matter if the climb don't suit you or whatever reason that you might have...

What happen today is prolly what is going to happen on sunday... or maybe worse... I can't wait to see the real pyrenees taking his toll...

You are thinking too narrowminded if you think it doesn't matter wether a climb is 3km or 15km. It's a different way of climbing, something you seem to fail to grasp.

 

[Cervelo77]

Unless, of course, that guy is Lance.

Well, I guess in the past one of those guys (Leipheimer, LA) has shown a capability to put in large decisive attacks capable of taking minutes. Another has not. Does one bury himself for a guy mostly capable only of wheel following (except if the race is in California)?

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Also, Kreuziger isn't going to be a factor.

 

[Cervelo77]

That's funny because Andy was talking about putting MORE time into AC yesterday and that AC couldn't drop him. Now post-race he says that he always thought he would lose time, blah blah blah.

It reminds me of last year whenever AC gained time on him, he always chalked it up to something OTHER than AC just being better than him.

Whatever. AC is the more talented rider, I've no doubt. I was simply saying that it's not a good climb on which to judge their relative capability to win the race.

 

[Ryaguas]

You are thinking too narrowminded if you think it doesn't matter wether a climb is 3km or 15km. It's a different way of climbing, something you seem to fail to grasp.

mmmm maybe I'm too extremist but I still think that is now or never... each second counts and if I were Gesink who "can't" TT I would be really worry about each second that I could lose...

about Levi well with his ultimate wheel sucking technique and since he is much better TTer than the most of the Top 10 contenders, he maybe is not THAT worry...

 

[Anonymous]

Maybe Alberto should give Vino his "2010 Commemorative TdF Watch" a bit early. Might ease the tension at dinner tonite.

BTW, Rodriguez beat Vino by 4 seconds.

Seriously, does anyone think Rodriguez would still have won if he attacked alone?
C'mon, no way.
Vino would NOT have let a more tired Rodriguez beat HIM in a sprint.

Yes, the 10 seconds gained by Alberto will cause "Psycho Damage".
But who will be the rider suffering that damage?
Who will have trouble sleeping tonite?

Okay, that is just stupid. Rodriguez beats him in the sprint in just about any situation.

 

[flicker]

mmmm maybe I'm too extremist but I still think that is now or never... each second counts and if I were Gesink who "can't" TT I would be really worry about each second that I could lose...

about Levi well with his ultimate wheel sucking technique and since he is much better TTer than the most of the Top 10 contenders, he maybe is not THAT worry...

Oh if only Levi learned to suck Andys' wheel.....

 

[Anonymous]

And I had previously mulled over the idea that we might have seen the end of the Contador mini-era.
Doh!!
Looks like AC is back "in-form", Schlecklet better look on the shelf for a can of whoop-a** to open up in the Pyrenees.

The Frank avatar is fantastic. Nice choice.

 

[Dedelou]

Yeah, I feel a bit the same. Oh well.

he probably would have if Vino had just a little more hummph. The way is saw it ,If Conti doesn't go when he did Vino still would not win the stage Rodriguez would . Rodriguez blasted ahead of the group, nobody but Conti could go with him. With or without Conti , Rodriguez would have passed Vino. Well done Contador..

 

[Cobblestones]

I had to run right after the stage was finished and now I'm catching up with the thread. Lot's of people talking about the psychological blow to Schlecklet, what I haven't seen is that it will also give a boost of confidence to Bertie.

When you think about it, since the prologue, Bertie has only lost time to Schlecklet. During the cobbled stage and later in the Alps. It's the first time, he's reversing this trend. IIRC he said that he's planning to peak during the third week. The 10s gain couldn't come at a psychologically better time for Bertie.

About the stage, I was sad, too that Vino didn't win it in the end. But sometimes circumstances conspire and you just have to suck it up. Astana tactics were great, they put Vino in the break and made Saxo work. Then on the climb, I think Bertie spotted that Schlecklet didn't follow JRod and so he took the chance to put GC time into him.

Could Bertie and Vino have played it better to also get the stage win for Astana? Probably not, but let's see:
1) Bertie refused to gift the stage to JRod and made him sprint for it. But that didn't work to get the win for Astana.
2) Bertie could have let JRod work more. In that case he might have lost most if not all of the precious GC seconds advantage, meaning he would have burned matches with his attack with little or no gain. Possibly JRod might still have sprinted past Vino anyway.
3) Bertie might not have needed to attack at all and stayed with Schlecklet. Still, JRod might have sprinted past Vino. Also, Bertie would not have the benefit of 10" over Schlecklet plus whatever psychological advantage he gained.

As I see it, option one gives one guaranteed result (GC seconds) and a possible stage win (which didn't pan out). Options 2 and 3 might give the stage win, but at a price. I think he did the right thing then and there. In hindsight, he actually should have gifted the stage win to JRod for even more GC seconds.

 

[Dedelou]

Alberto rides for Alberto.

If you're going to attack your teammate, you better win the stage.

Dumbass .

Are you sure you eyes are good? Rodriguez is NOT Alberto's teammate.. Brilliant move by Conti to salvage the effort of Vino and make his sacrifice less than a total waste of tactics. I bet some hypocrites around here would be clamering like pigs at the slaughterhouse if Alberto (who has the power to counter ) sat on Andy's wheel and watch Vino get clobbered by Rodriguez. Bravo Astana
In this Tour each day has brought something , however small, toward the victory.

 

[Sophistic]

Today was basically a 1km race, hardly comparable to a tough mountain stage that ends with an 18km climb.

 

[Mellow Velo]

I don't think Gesink is worried of the Pyrenees because he is dropped on a typical anti-Gesink climb.
Same goes for Leipheimer, you can't get it more anti-Leipheimer than this.
Short, steep, super-explosive. I don't know why you see that as a sign for everything.

If you take this stage as base for what's going to happen. You're gonna be very suprised on sunday.

DT: Do you see Rabo surprising us on Sunday?
They are the only team with two GC threats.
Are they going to ride the Pyreneean stages conservatively; protecting both men in the GC, or are they going to go for broke and try something daring?
If so, what do you think it will be?

 

[Mellow Velo]

Schleck's pre-Mende stage assessment and ambitions:

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/4...or-to-resume-GC-battle-in-Mende-tomorrow.aspx

They don't exactly match his post race comments.

 

[Ryaguas]

In hindsight, he actually should have gifted the stage win to JRod for even more GC seconds.

I'm pretty sure that if El Pistolero has done that Vino would have killed him right after finishing the stage... Vino is not that kind of person who gift stages and I know that AC knows it quite well... Vino killed himself FTW and AC had to do the same as he did... so NO Gifts from Astana today...

 

[flicker]

DT: Do you see Rabo surprising us on Sunday?
They are the only team with two GC threats.
Are they going to ride the Pyreneean stages conservatively; protecting both men in the GC, or are they going to go for broke and try something daring?
If so, what do you think it will be?

Gesink will blow or crash, Menchow 3rd GC overall. Menchov looks sweet.