TDF Stage 14: Saint-Gaudens - Plateau de Beille 168km

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Jul 30, 2009
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psycholist said:
Has anyone here ever ridden up a climb in a race situation on max!!

Clearly not at tdf level - but they are not racing at max - hushovd, Gilbert, Thomas, tommy V are all staying with the GC contenders too easily.

Or maybe - max has been redefined so that bigger one day riders can hang on?

We'll see over the next week and a bit...
 
Jul 15, 2011
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Winterfold said:
Clearly not at tdf level - but they are not racing at max - hushovd, Gilbert, Thomas, tommy V are all staying with the GC contenders too easily.

Or maybe - max has been redefined so that bigger one day riders can hang on?

We'll see over the next week and a bit...

Interesting point, the "selection" were not on max.
 
May 25, 2010
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Back for round 2! A has been mentioned, Hitch, great post up.

On the subject of form:

Whilst it may be true that Contador is hoping to regain health and fitness by the Alpe you have to consider the others in the same situation. The Schlecks only prepare for one race a year, 2 form peaks (Ardennes) so if anyone is going to improve you would have to imagine it'd be them. Basso had no form going into the Dauphine but seems to definitely be on the upwards after his ride on Thursday, he must stand a chance of improving come Galibier + Alpe d'Huez as well. Cadel? He may be on peak now, his result show that its likely so how long can he hold for? As for Samu, only he knows.

So the point being, if people are saying Contador will improve his fitness and form then conversely so will his main competitors. The only people I see not improving are those peaking and the youngsters, like Coppel, Taaramae, Uran and Jeannesson.

How much of his "bad" performance is because of the Giro? Just have a look at the other people who are riding the double:

Gadret, who rode to 4th and a stage win in Italy can't even follow wheels at the back of the peloton on a sprint stage before leaving the race exhausted mentally and physically.
Kreuziger, rode to 6th place, came to the tour to help Vino, lost time nearly every time the pace was on pre-Stage 12, come that tage, he rode away on 1 mountain and bonked on the next.
Szmyd, come to the front and instead of sinking battleships he just sinks the destroyers, with Andy starting the fireworks whilst he was pacesetting.

Is there anymore example? So we have 2 GC contenders, gone or just hanging on, a super-domestique being slightly less super. In fact the only 2 people I can think of to be any different is Porte, who rode the Giro as a prep race and Dupont, who was stronger than Roche but will that last?

So Contador is clearly handicapped from racing the Giro. The next question now is how much is the knee affecting him? Combine the two and is this the Contador we get, the one who can only just hang onto the major players wheels?

Evans, Basso and the Brother Dimm will have to try and exploit this and hopefully will we see a quicker pace being set on the climbs to try and isolate Contador. However whilst Leopard have the stronger team, it seems Contador's domestiques can stay there longer than theirs, and Contador has no reason to send his team to the front at all now, than onus is on the others. Will Monfort and Fugslang hand around this time? Liquigas may help earlier on but who other than Szmyd do they have for the mountain? It seems Cadel only has Morabito so he needs to hang on as long as possible, not set pace.

Certainly going to be interesting (to me at least) stage! :D

Oh and as a footnote I was amazed at Europcar and Tommy's riding, he'll probably pay for it but well done to him and Rolland, who must be developing into an amazing climber. Rolland, Jeannesson, Vanendert were certainly the biggest surprises on the first MTF, hopefully they can emulate it and we see more from them and the next tier climbers.
 
Apr 28, 2009
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I'm quite sure Szmyd and Basso wasn't at their max on thursday, as mentioned in another thread. In the third week, Szmyd will show you what full throttle means.
 
Kiryienka, solos to an amazing win over one of the toughest climbs in the sport in Italy, then is Hors Delais inside a week in the Tour.

Though to be fair he's been riding a full calendar since March and only came into the Tour side as a backup after Soler's accident.
 
Mar 10, 2009
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TimChristy said:
If Basso is gonna make a move I hope it's from at least 6km out. Also, hope we don't see another 7 man leader group pacing up the climb with attacks only in the final 2km.
As Scarponi displayed in the Giro, the problem with an early attack is it can come back and bite you.

I remember reading an anaylsis of LA's "the look" attack at the bottom of Alpe d'Huez. After about 5 km, the time gap did not change. What that means is that it is far more prudent to wait till near the end to attack, and not risk the possibility that you have misjudged how much petrol you still have left. (Bonking with just 2km left is a whole lot better than bonking with 7km left.)

That being said, I think Liquigas and Leopard are going to try and dislodge as many Saxo riders on the preceeding climbs - which should animate things. But the route doesnt suit that tactic perfectly. As Hitch pointed out, there are two rest days following Saturday, so I think we will see many riders at or above redline.
 
Aug 1, 2009
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Midnightfright said:
Levi to do a Pantani and attack from the off at such a furious pace he will blow all the GC riders to shreds.Knowing his attack is fruitless he does it anyway just for his love of attacking endeavor. Pushing on up the climbs with the crowd cheering his name, he will have to retire due to exhaustion but it will go down in tour folklore and whenever anyone in the future trys a courageous attack we will call it doing a Leipheimer

That would be a beautiful thing, and I would be a fan forever. It's never too late to try something new, and what does he have to lose? :D
 
Apr 14, 2011
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The only people I see not improving are those peaking and the youngsters, like Coppel, Taaramae, Uran and Jeannesson.

I think Coppel and Uran might improve, as they are both recovering from crashes.
 
Just looking at the profile of the stage the last time the Tour finished here (2007), it was a MUCH easier stage compared to what is on tap for tomorrow:

_TDF_2007_PROFIL14.gif


PROFIL.gif


I have to think they aren't going to race too hard until they descend off of Port de Lers.
 
Mar 15, 2009
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therhodeo said:
Levi reading this in the hotel tonight. "So I'm supposed to ride off with no one in front of me? Never really considered that"

Levi just said in an interview, before Kloden abandoned and crashed again and again--that they were all for Kloden and since he was not one for a day long escapade and not one to get in the morning break--that he would try in the alps to go---after there is more separation and the infighting for the podium sets in. He said--no one will care if I get 20-30 seconds.
 
Jul 18, 2010
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benpounder said:
As Scarponi displayed in the Giro, the problem with an early attack is it can come back and bite you.

I remember reading an anaylsis of LA's "the look" attack at the bottom of Alpe d'Huez. After about 5 km, the time gap did not change. What that means is that it is far more prudent to wait till near the end to attack, and not risk the possibility that you have misjudged how much petrol you still have left. (Bonking with just 2km left is a whole lot better than bonking with 7km left.)

That being said, I think Liquigas and Leopard are going to try and dislodge as many Saxo riders on the preceeding climbs - which should animate things. But the route doesnt suit that tactic perfectly. As Hitch pointed out, there are two rest days following Saturday, so I think we will see many riders at or above redline.

Agreed, but I think Basso has the stamina to ride a harder tempo up the climb than any of the other favorites "if" he can get away. He looked smooth on Thursday...just lacking that quick burst to distance himself on the attack
 
Libertine Seguros said:
Kiryienka, solos to an amazing win over one of the toughest climbs in the sport in Italy, then is Hors Delais inside a week in the Tour.

Though to be fair he's been riding a full calendar since March and only came into the Tour side as a backup after Soler's accident.

huh

10 characters
 
Publicus said:
Just looking at the profile of the stage the last time the Tour finished here (2007), it was a MUCH easier stage compared to what is on tap for tomorrow:

_TDF_2007_PROFIL14.gif


PROFIL.gif


I have to think they aren't going to race too hard until they descend off of Port de Lers.

I remember 2007 well.
Dekker riding so hard on the Pailheres that only 20 guys were left over the top... :cool:
 
Mar 10, 2009
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TimChristy said:
Agreed, but I think Basso has the stamina to ride a harder tempo up the climb than any of the other favorites "if" he can get away. He looked smooth on Thursday...just lacking that quick burst to distance himself on the attack
Basso,and Evans (and Leipheimer) dont need to "get away", they all have the capacity to ride someone off their wheel. Contador and Schlecks (as was Marco Pantani) are expolsive. Rather than a relentless wearing down of opponents, the later destroy by forcing another to match accelerations. Tomorrow (today for those across large ponds) will show, hopefully*, which style is more successful. But note, the grinders tend to be better ITTists.

*I so would love an animated stage. We've had some very good stages thus far, but yearn for the GC battle royale.
 

Polish

BANNED
Mar 11, 2009
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The Hitch said:
Due to its length its gradient, its position as the final climb of a 3 day mountain effort, the Plateau de Beile is all set to have the biggest impact on the 2011 Yellow jersey battle of all the mountains in the race.

Due to the 30km of flat preceeding it, the main contenders, exhausted as they may be, are likely to come into the climbs opening 6.9% kilometre together.

Some might argue that it is better to have 2 major climbs in a row, the format the other 3 major mountain stages of this years Tour have adopted, rather than 30km of flat leading up to the Mountain top finish.

But it is important to remember that while there may be no Tourmalet, Iozard or Galibier to launch attacks off, or to tire the riders out immediately before the finale, most often the contenders go into the final climb together anyway. This was after all the case on Saturday at Luz Ardiden, which had been immediately precceeded by 2 major climbs.
The 6 catergorised climbs that precceed the Beille, will have done more than enough to tire the riders out.

And at the end of the day when the riders, tired, legs aching, approach the final 20k of a mountain stage, and the only thing standing between them and the stage finish, between them and glory, is a Hors Caterfory Mountain.

Whats the difference?

PreviewFile.jpg.ashx


The Plateau de Beile is the hardest climb of this years Tour. It is the steepest of all the HC mountains, and one of the longest. At 8% for 15.7km it is longer than Alpe d Huez by 1.7km, while maintaining a similar steepness.

The fact that the second kilometre with an average of 10% already brings the riders into double figure grades, shows just how much of a challenge the climb will pose.

But Beille’s importance goes beyond that. One major critiscism of the big mountains in the Tour de France is that they are used to often. The Tourmalet has been used 4 times in 3 years. Alpe has more times than not in the last half century. Galibier, Aubisque, fans are used to these names. But the Plateau de Beille. This beast has only been used 4 times as a summit finish in the history of the Tour.

And here is where the legend comes in. Only 3 people have won on the Plateau de Beile. Marco “Il Pirata” Pantani. Lance “The Boss” Armstrong. Alberto “ El Pistolero” Contador. The 3 Greatest climbers of all time.

You have to be special to win here.

Plateau-de-Beille-Les-Cabannes-profile.jpg



Km 3-6 all stick at around the climbs average of between 8 and 9% before falling to 7.6 % for 2km.


The gradient then increases greatly to 8.8% 9.6% and 8.6% for the next 3 kilometers respectively. Coming after 7km of climbin this section provides the toughest challenge on the mountain, is the best place for attacks to stick, and is likely to prove the graveyard for some contenders Tour de France hopes.

The last time the Tour came here, it was 2007 and featured the Contador vs Rasmussen battle at its peak. For those who like their facts, it was stage 14 of that yearsTour, which featured the Plateau de Beille and finally Contador raising his arms into the air.

In stage 14 of this years Tour, Can Contador repeat his heroics?


Kilometer 12 is on paper the easiest of the Beille at 6.4% but with any momentum long gone slipstraeam is unlikely to play much of a role. Its still a long way to the top and the climb gets steeper still.

Cycling nuts will line the steep ramps. For Samuel Sanchez and his Pro Continental support team, this is the last chance in front of their own fans. Can they make the most of it?

ae2650c0_Plateau-de-Beille.jpg


Anyone looking for time will have made their move by now and this makes Kilometers 13 and 14 at 7.7% and 7.4% crucial. On this section, approaching the finish, riders will do their best to either create or limit time gaps approaching the final straight. The climb does not ease of at all though. The final 1.5km, where should a small group make it to the top together, the stage will be contested, comes in at 7%.

The battle for the stage and the GC will be equally intriguing.

Whoever is victorious, should not get too far ahead of themselves however. The Alpes are still to come, the main event awaits. But they can permit themselves a smile, and hold one little fact close to their hearts. A record unique in cycling.

On the 4 occasions the Plateau de Beile has been used in the Tour, the winner has gone on to wear Yellow up on the top step in Paris.

As goes the Plateau so goes the Tour.

How will they go this year?

On Saturday, the world finds out.

Great Post Thanks!

The only four winners on The Plateau also won the GC that year.
Here are the times up The Plateau per WIKI:

2007 Alberto Contador 44:08
2004 Lance Armstrong 45:30
2002 Lance Armstrong 45:43
1998 Marco Pantani 43:30*

*The 1998 Tour de France finish was at 1747 m whereas in later years the finish has been at 1780m
 
May 19, 2011
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And Szmyd did not even race full gas in giro, otherwise Nibali will not be at third, LOL he should have plenty reserve, i even doubt that Szmyd did that on purpose to help Basso in full gas at tour:D
kjetilraknerud said:
I'm quite sure Szmyd and Basso wasn't at their max on thursday, as mentioned in another thread. In the third week, Szmyd will show you what full throttle means.
 
May 19, 2011
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i sure want that to happen:D and hopefully gap will be around 1 min
luckyboy said:
I think the group will be fairly large after Col d'Agnes and going into Plateau de Beille.

Basso will ride away from the GC lot and get 30+ seconds/win.
 
May 25, 2010
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Libertine Seguros said:
Kiryienka, solos to an amazing win over one of the toughest climbs in the sport in Italy, then is Hors Delais inside a week in the Tour.

Though to be fair he's been riding a full calendar since March and only came into the Tour side as a backup after Soler's accident.

Yeah of course, he was the first one to abandon wasn't he? I suppose it all leads into the question of whether or not fatigue plays a major part in crashes and risk of injuries

Duartista said:
I think Coppel and Uran might improve, as they are both recovering from crashes.

Prehaps but seeing what a 3 week GT does to their bodies is still an unknown quantity and you can't expect them to perform as a hardened 30 year old would. It'as probably one advantage Danielson has over 4-5 other top 10 aspirants, he can GT. He just has other problems to deal with...

***

Found a insightful article, taking a scientific approach to stage 12. Putting aside the obvious clinic parts I thought the stage analysis was good and backed up some of my thoughts, the pace should be faster and if Contador did lose time because of form loss, he's going to lose a whole heap more today.

http://feedly.com/k/ptKmZpg

Schlecks being the only ones to attack is probably true as well. That may introduce another new dynamic of what will Andy do if Frank is again the better climber and riders himself 20-30secs clear and into the yellow? Will he ride all out for him on stage 18 + 19 so Frank can gain as much time as possible before the Time Trial or will he go for his own glory. Jens himself reckons they rider either/or so Andy riding for his brother would be a sight to see.

Basso and Evans, likely to be the only 2 with them may have to try and team up to combat them, in an "Aldo Sassi" alliance, but what exactly can they do? They're both tempo riders so attacking won't suit them. Only thing I can imagine is combining what domestiques/gregarios they have before the ultimate climb or pacesetting together on the Plateau.

Sanchez will be a spanner in the works, he won't be allowed the same leash as Ardiden, gc radar + parcours.

Likely top 6 in all those names mentioned.