TDF Stage 15: Limoux - Montpellier 187km

[Mambo95]

Hahaha, Philippe Gilbert made a little boy cry today

Why did he make you cry?

 

[El Pistolero]

Lol, Sporza asked some people in Montpellier who has leading the Tour de France after today. No one knew. When they said it was Voeckler they didn't even know who that was. One lady even thought Thomas Voeckler was a Spaniard.

 

[jens_attacks]

Lol, Sporza asked some people in Montpellier who has leading the Tour de France after today. No one knew. When they said it was Voeckler they didn't even know who that was. One lady even thought Thomas Voeckler was a Spaniard.

well not all the people from outside is from these forums,there are normal people too you know...

 

[El Pistolero]

Stage winner in every single GT without skipping any... Hmmm, I'd want to see it, there can't be that many guys who have even ridden 7 in a row, let alone won a stage in every race.

Merckx won the 1972 Tour, 1973 Vuelta and 1973 Giro. That's 3 straight GTs.

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

Merckx won the 1972 Tour, 1973 Vuelta and 1973 Giro. That's 3 straight GTs.

Yeah, I hear Merckx was quite good, but it's a different record for a different, and better, rider.

 

[El Pistolero]

well not all the people from outside is from these forums,there are normal people too you know...

No offence, but if you live in the city that hosts the finish of a Tour stage and don't know the most popular French cyclist you need to get out more.

Even my GF knows who Boonen or Gilbert are and she thought Cavendish could win the Tour because he won so many stages.

 

[c&cfan]

No offence, but if you live in the city that hosts the finish of a Tour stage and don't know the most popular French cyclist you need to get out more.

Even my GF knows who Boonen or Gilbert are and she thought Cavendish could win the Tour because he won so many stages.

that's awesome for a pony.

 

[Wergeland]

Let's be honest here, Gilbert doesn't give a **** about the green jersey. All he wants is stage wins. Otherwise he wouldn't have attacked today and in the third stage Cav won Phil didn't even try to sprint because he didn't want to take risk. Cav won, and only because Phil races for stages and not for green. And because the point system is bogus of course.

Perhaps the most stupid thing I ever read on this forum. Phil is going for it 110% at every intermediate sprint. He attacked half heartedly today to try to shake up the HTC-train.

 

[Mellow Velo]

Perhaps the most stupid thing I ever read on this forum. Phil is going for it 110% at every intermediate sprint. He attacked half heartedly today to try to shake up the HTC-train.

You obviously need to read more of El Pistolero's posts.
I found the one about Cav not give a crepe about the Giro, particularly amusing.

 

[The Hitch]

No one seemed to complain about it being favoured towards the sprinters when the likes of Boonen and McEwen where winning it (no puncheurs in sight). But now a sprinter better than them wins it and suddenly it's unfair.

I certainatly was.

Definately not a Cav hater, but I dont like the system of this jersey.

Thing is, as Cav showed at the Vuelta, he would probably win it even if you didnt bias it heavily towards him.

 

[Michielveedeebee]

Oh how could I be so rude?

Craig, Parrulo, Libertine, thirteen, who else will be in cycling Hell?

me 2 prolly

 

[El Pistolero]

Perhaps the most stupid thing I ever read on this forum. Phil is going for it 110% at every intermediate sprint. He attacked half heartedly today to try to shake up the HTC-train.

Phil has said every time that green is not a goal and that he wants that second stage win. Call him stupid not me. If he wanted to be in the running for green, he would not have attacked today.

Sure he goes for the intermediate, it doesn't hurt his chances for another stage win. What's so hard to understand about that? Green is not an obsession for Phil, it is for Cav no matter how much he lies about it in interviews. He's hardly going 110% at these intermediate sprints There's only 3 people that contest these intermediate sprints. You don't have to do much effort to score some points there.

He didn't even try in some flat stages. And that's were the real points are on offer, not the intermediate sprints. The fact that he didn't try at 2 flat stages so far says more than him trying at every intermediate sprints. It wouldn't surprise me if he just did the intermediate sprints because he's bored as hell sitting in the peloton all day. His attack on stage 13 was stupid as well. So much effort for 2 points difference. He was just having fun, that's why he did it. His tactics during the Tour so far don't make sense if his number one goal was the green jersey.

Phil attacks because he likes to attack. And sometimes his attacks don't make sense at all. Phil would attack from 180km from the finish line if there was no one to keep him in check. Ask Leukemans.

For Phil green is nothing more than a bonus. By now he should realize that green is no longer possible for him and he'll still try at the intermediate sprints.

 

[Mambo95]

Phil has said every time that green is not a goal and that he wants that second stage win. Call him stupid not me. If he wanted to be in the running for green, he would not have attacked today.

Sure he goes for the intermediate, it doesn't hurt his chances for another stage win. What's so hard to understand about that? Green is not an obsession for Phil, it is for Cav no matter how much he lies about it in interviews. He's hardly going 110% at these intermediate sprints There's only 3 people that contest these intermediate sprints. You don't have to do much effort to score some points there.

He didn't even try in some flat stages. And that's were the real points are on offer, not the intermediate sprints. The fact that he didn't try at 2 flat stages so far says more than him trying at every intermediate sprints. It wouldn't surprise me if he just did the intermediate sprints because he's bored as hell sitting in the peloton all day. His attack on stage 13 was stupid as well. So much effort for 2 points difference. He was just having fun, that's why he did it. His tactics during the Tour so far don't make sense if his number one goal was the green jersey.

Phil attacks because he likes to attack. And sometimes his attacks don't make sense at all. Phil would attack from 180km from the finish line if there was no one to keep him in check. Ask Leukemans.

For Phil green is nothing more than a bonus. By now he should realize that green is no longer possible for him and he'll still try at the intermediate sprints.

But if the Green Jersey is of no interest to him, he should have stopped going for the intermediate sprints. While he keeps collecting points and staying in contention, he remains a threat in HTC's eyes. So when he tries to get into a break (like on the stage 13) HTC hunt him down. Hushovd was further down on points and, despite being a decent sprinter, HTC didn't chase him, because they know he's not interested.

 

[El Pistolero]

But if the Green Jersey is of no interest to him, he should have stopped going for the intermediate sprints. While he keeps collecting points and staying in contention, he remains a threat in HTC's eyes. So when he tries to get into a break (like on the stage 13) HTC hunt him down. Hushovd was further down on points and, despite being a decent sprinter, HTC didn't chase him, because they know he's not interested.

Like I said, it's a nice bonus for him. Stage 13 was really the only stage he tried to go in a break and knowing Gilbert he probably though he was strong enough to go in the break despite being heavily marked. Let's face it, he's a bit cocky.

If Gilbert raced with just the green in mind, he would have won or at least be a lot closer.

Cav wouldn't ride any different than he is now if his main goal was the green jersey. Can you say the same about Gilbert? Can you really?

 

[hatcher]

Gilbert has quite clearly been throwing everything he can into trying to win the green jersey. It's insane to suggest otherwise. He's contending every intermediate, and he's attacking when there is zero chance of winning anything but a handful of points.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

Like I said, it's a nice bonus for him. Stage 13 was really the only stage he tried to go in a break and knowing Gilbert he probably though he was strong enough to go in the break despite being heavily marked. Let's face it, he's a bit cocky.

If Gilbert raced with just the green in mind, he would have won or at least be a lot closer.

Cav wouldn't ride any different than he is now if his main goal was the green jersey. Can you say the same about Gilbert? Can you really?

I think you just overrated gilbert, as good as he is.
He has certainly been trying to get his hands on it. As well as winning stages obviously.

His addition has been very good for the race tho.

 

[El Pistolero]

I think you just overrated gilbert, as good as he is.
He has certainly been trying to get his hands on it. As well as winning stages obviously.

His addition has been very good for the race tho.

Was a bit of an overstatement when I said he doesn't care for it. But his number one goal is stage wins. And the green jersey is suffering for that goal.

Cav's number one goal is stage wins as well, but for him it works hand in hand with the green jersey because of the point classification rules. Cavendish would still lead in the green jersey even if he got 0 points at the intermediate sprints.

 

[OneNameGuy]

I totally agree with your point. If another stage win was his biggest goal he wouldn't go after intermediate sprints because then HTC will chase him every time he attacks.
I don't understand Pistolero's point about a special bonus...

But if the Green Jersey is of no interest to him, he should have stopped going for the intermediate sprints. While he keeps collecting points and staying in contention, he remains a threat in HTC's eyes. So when he tries to get into a break (like on the stage 13) HTC hunt him down. Hushovd was further down on points and, despite being a decent sprinter, HTC didn't chase him, because they know he's not interested.

 

[Mambo95]

Was a bit of an overstatement when I said he doesn't care for it. But his number one goal is stage wins. And the green jersey is suffering for that goal.

It's the other way around.

His opportunities for stage wins are suffering because of his persistence with the green jersey because HTC won't let him get in the break and get big IS points and potentially the win. On the non-Cav stages, HTC want a harmless break (the larger the better) to go ahead and take the big IS points and the big points at the finish. And 'harmless' means no Gilbert and no Rojas. And good as he is, he can't outrun HTC, so the break is not an option for Gilbert.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

It's the other way around.

His opportunities for stage wins are suffering because of his persistence with the green jersey because HTC won't let him get in the break and get big IS points and potentially the win. On the non-Cav stages, HTC want a harmless break (the larger the better) to go ahead and take the big IS points and the big points at the finish. And 'harmless' means no Gilbert and no Rojas. And good as he is, he can't outrun HTC, so the break is not an option for Gilbert.

probably true also.

I guess both objectives are suffering. It is difficult with the rules for a punchy rider to win green, even on this course.

 

[El Pistolero]

It's the other way around.

His opportunities for stage wins are suffering because of his persistence with the green jersey because HTC won't let him get in the break and get big IS points and potentially the win. On the non-Cav stages, HTC want a harmless break (the larger the better) to go ahead and take the big IS points and the big points at the finish. And 'harmless' means no Gilbert and no Rojas. And good as he is, he can't outrun HTC, so the break is not an option for Gilbert.

He only tried for a break once. And even then, holding of Hushovd in a descend would have been hard.

 

[I Watch Cycling In July]

Greipel?

Very late to this discussion but I've just been looking at a replay of the stage trying to figure out what happened to Greipel.

As far as I can tell, he was 3rd wheel in an OPL train on the peloton's left at about 1k to go. Then, at around 0.9k, an overhead shot shows two OPLs coming past a Lampre rider. The Lampre rider (Petachi?) moves closer to the barriers on the left side. That seems to be where Greipel loses his lead out's wheel.

Anyone got an opinion on how normal that kind of a movement during pre-sprint positioning is?

 

[Winterfold]

Here's an idea. On the rest day get all the teams to lead out their GC rider for a sprint. Any GC rider who can't get above 68kph gets sent home.

I like this - Hoy and Bauge for GC

Wiggo might be able to do it - who else?

Der Panzerwagen and...

 

[taiwan]

Very late to this discussion but I've just been looking at a replay of the stage trying to figure out what happened to Greipel.

As far as I can tell, he was 3rd wheel in an OPL train on the peloton's left at about 1k to go. Then, at around 0.9k, an overhead shot shows two OPLs coming past a Lampre rider. The Lampre rider (Petachi?) moves closer to the barriers on the left side. That seems to be where Greipel loses his lead out's wheel.

Anyone got an opinion on how normal that kind of a movement during pre-sprint positioning is?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3Uj5bwa0LU

I don't see a Lampre rider actually blocking anyone. Greipel has Sieberg's wheel with 1.1 to go, Roelandts pulling them up. Then when the Lampre moves left at 0.8, there's aLiquigas rider coming through where Greipel had been, i.e. Greipel had already gone. Next shot there are a Movistar, a Cofidis and an FDJ inbetween he and Sieberg. In the first shot Greipel looks like he's working to stay on Sieberg, so there may already be a gap there.

To be fair, you could say that was Danilo Hondo's work having the desired effect: "I went on the front and made a very, very fast speed to make it hard behind to get up into a better position." he said.

 

[SpeedWay]

Except we all saw the stage and know he wasn't dropped by the gruppetto for 70km.

IMO Farrar was just hopped up on adrenaline, and was exceptionally frustrated because he thought Cav was beatable today. He took a cheap shot.

Word. At this stage of the race he had every right to be frustrated and commit a faux pas.
The rest of the whiners should just stay on the porch and bow to Cav's supremacy.