Team Ineos Discussion thread

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Jun 14, 2017
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portugal11 said:
Pricey_sky said:
portugal11 said:
Sky looks really weak for le tour. Only landa seems to be a great help to froome in the mountains.
The only concern is Poels, no need for the rest to show anything at this stage. You can almost guarantee the train will be up and running in a few weeks.
Nieve, thomas, henao don't seem stellar too. And kwia isn't a climber at all
I would say that Nieve is climbing pretty well in Suisse considering he hasn't raced in over two months. He was beaten by Kruijswijk, Hirt and Dombrowski coming from the Giro, and Špilak, Izaggire and Caruso who all are probably peaking for this race, while Nieve was scheduled to ride in Dauphiné supporting Froome.
Thomas hasn't raced since his injury and it seems reading the race rapport that he pulled a lot before the race was on tv.
And you can't really judge Henao by his perfomance today, he split the group but had to wait for Elissonde, so we never got to se his true form
And Kwiatkowski's climbing in Dauphiné was his best showing in over three years in the mountains
 
Re: Re:

portugal11 said:
Pricey_sky said:
portugal11 said:
Sky looks really weak for le tour. Only landa seems to be a great help to froome in the mountains.
The only concern is Poels, no need for the rest to show anything at this stage. You can almost guarantee the train will be up and running in a few weeks.
Nieve, thomas, henao don't seem stellar too. And kwia isn't a climber at all
Maybe you didn't watch the Dauphine...
 
Re: Re:

portugal11 said:
Pricey_sky said:
portugal11 said:
Sky looks really weak for le tour. Only landa seems to be a great help to froome in the mountains.
The only concern is Poels, no need for the rest to show anything at this stage. You can almost guarantee the train will be up and running in a few weeks.
Nieve, thomas, henao don't seem stellar too. And kwia isn't a climber at all
After a busy spring Henao is probably following the approach of Valverde and Contador, backing off before finding form again in July. Nieve seems his usual solid self at this stage as he wants to ride the Tour and Vuelta plus Kwiatkowski was superb in the Dauphine.
 
People are forgetting that Sky sort of rotate their domestiques. For example Henao last year was great first week but faded towards the end, while Poels was nowhere to be seen until the final week. Poels could be good for the final week still.
 
Jul 16, 2011
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hazaran said:
Well the Route du Sud isn't really helping clear up this particular quagmire. Moscon (?!?) finishing 2nd on the hardest mountain stage, Henao and Elissonde finishing the stage top 10 while Thomas, Poels (and Stannard) are nowhere, not even keeping it together on the flat.
I don't know this comment is based just on the results or watching the race.
Elissonde finished top 10, since he was designated GC leader after being in the break on stage one. He followed wheels and Henao was clearly stronger

Thomas pulled a lot today. I agree that he couldn't keep it together. The peloton was in pieces when he stopped pulling. :p
 
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Tank Engine said:
hazaran said:
Well the Route du Sud isn't really helping clear up this particular quagmire. Moscon (?!?) finishing 2nd on the hardest mountain stage, Henao and Elissonde finishing the stage top 10 while Thomas, Poels (and Stannard) are nowhere, not even keeping it together on the flat.
I don't know this comment is based just on the results or watching the race.
Elissonde finished top 10, since he was designated GC leader after being in the break on stage one. He followed wheels and Henao was clearly stronger

Thomas pulled a lot today. I agree that he couldn't keep it together. The peloton was in pieces when he stopped pulling. :p
This.

It looks like comment was based on results rather than having watched the stage. Only concern is Poels if you ask me.
 
Jul 14, 2015
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Tank Engine said:
hazaran said:
Well the Route du Sud isn't really helping clear up this particular quagmire. Moscon (?!?) finishing 2nd on the hardest mountain stage, Henao and Elissonde finishing the stage top 10 while Thomas, Poels (and Stannard) are nowhere, not even keeping it together on the flat.
I don't know this comment is based just on the results or watching the race.
Elissonde finished top 10, since he was designated GC leader after being in the break on stage one. He followed wheels and Henao was clearly stronger

Thomas pulled a lot today. I agree that he couldn't keep it together. The peloton was in pieces when he stopped pulling. :p
Eh I watched the disgraceful 10k of coverage and it doesn't really change anything. When a guy like Thomas is finished with his pull you don't expect there to still be 20 guys in the peloton. Weak performance. Poels really was nowhere. Henao and Elissonde beaten by Rolland are fully their usual mediocre self.

This isn't mountain train material. None of those guys will still be there at 5k on todays form.
 
Jul 16, 2011
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hazaran said:
Tank Engine said:
hazaran said:
Well the Route du Sud isn't really helping clear up this particular quagmire. Moscon (?!?) finishing 2nd on the hardest mountain stage, Henao and Elissonde finishing the stage top 10 while Thomas, Poels (and Stannard) are nowhere, not even keeping it together on the flat.
I don't know this comment is based just on the results or watching the race.
Elissonde finished top 10, since he was designated GC leader after being in the break on stage one. He followed wheels and Henao was clearly stronger

Thomas pulled a lot today. I agree that he couldn't keep it together. The peloton was in pieces when he stopped pulling. :p

Eh I watched the disgraceful 10k of coverage and it doesn't really change anything. When a guy like Thomas is finished with his pull you don't expect there to still be 20 guys in the peloton. Weak performance. Poels really was nowhere. Henao and Elissonde beaten by Rolland are fully their usual mediocre self.

This isn't mountain train material. None of those guys will still be there at 5k on todays form.
You know that Henao was riding for Elissonde for GC? Elissonde was spent at the end. Henao looked pretty fresh.

Edit: When Thomas pulled off the front, there were not more than a dozen riders left

see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAQCMtHU3E0&feature=player_embedded (12:13 in, aerial shot just before Thomas pulls off).

It also depends on how long he was pulling beforehand. He was on the front when coverage started.
 
With regards to Sky's dom train being a bit of a mess at the moment (according to some posters), there are only 2 other teams who could potentially dominate them at the Tour and that would be Movistar and (not on par but not far away) Astana. The problem with those 2 teams is their leader could well be sub standard to Froome in July with one having come from the Giro and the other working himself up to top speed after injury/time out of racing. I think this Tour will come down to a lot of leader/co leader battles with no one team controlling the whole race as Sky have done in the past. If Sky do try and control it, there are plenty of other riders who are in good form to ambush their plans and make the race one of the most epic in recent times. Here's hoping.
 
Kwiatkowski on optimal form is as good climber as most of Sky climbing domestiques. He also has many others qualities like demon descending, high absolute power for strong flat pulls and superb race awareness. If good version of Kwiatkowski was with Froome on Formigal Vuelta Stage last year, he probably would have Tour/Vuelta double right now in palmares.
 
Re:

Arked said:
Kwiatkowski on optimal form is as good climber as most of Sky climbing domestiques. He also has many others qualities like demon descending, high absolute power for strong flat pulls and superb race awareness. If good version of Kwiatkowski was with Froome on Formigal Vuelta Stage last year, he probably would have Tour/Vuelta double right now in palmares.
I agree with this. Still a bit bemused as to how Formigal happened.

But given that it did....then it could happen again.

Not sure why Sky would throw all of their eggs in the Tour basket?

I wouldn't take Poels or Landa.

Poels is not in form at the moment, but given time he probably will be. Therefore he will likely be a SUPER domestique at La Vuelta. Why waste him at Le Tour when he might only be your 5th or 6th strongest rider in the mountains?

Landa has just ridden most of the high mountain stages at the Giro harder than the GC contenders. He is a) Unlikely to be particularly strong in July (as he also wasn't last year), and b) Likely to be an additional contender for GC at La Vuelta, as well an incredible support rider for Froome should Chris be in condition to back up from the TDF.

For the TDF Froome would still have:

Thomas (who is additional train strength that they weren't anticipating if he'd completed the Giro)
Henao
Nieve
Kwiatkowski
Kennaugh (not sure how recent MTF win in the Dauphne can be ignored)
Stannard
Rowe
Other?

There is quite a lot of climbing strength in that bunch, but also, how much climbing strength does Froome need? I reckon that he could have still won last years Tour easily with one less climber. And this year? What if he is not as strong as Porte in the mountains?

It might just be that Sky is the team that needs to try to ambush someone else.
 
Re: Re:

Escarabajo said:
Tank Engine said:
hazaran said:
Well the Route du Sud isn't really helping clear up this particular quagmire. Moscon (?!?) finishing 2nd on the hardest mountain stage, Henao and Elissonde finishing the stage top 10 while Thomas, Poels (and Stannard) are nowhere, not even keeping it together on the flat.
I don't know this comment is based just on the results or watching the race.
Elissonde finished top 10, since he was designated GC leader after being in the break on stage one. He followed wheels and Henao was clearly stronger

Thomas pulled a lot today. I agree that he couldn't keep it together. The peloton was in pieces when he stopped pulling. :p
This.

It looks like comment was based on results rather than having watched the stage. Only concern is Poels if you ask me.
Yep. It seems unlikely that Poels will be of any use in the first half of the race - but Sky won't have too much trouble controlling the race there even if Froome takes yellow on day five. If Henao can stay with Froome on Mont du Chat that would be great, but it isn't even necessary.

They really only need Poels from the Peyragudes stage onwards, IMO. The question is do they think he can ride himself into form? It's quite the gamble.
 
Why are there endless questioning re Landa & Nieve when both are going to the Tour ...enough already leaving them out of teams and putting forth cloud in the sky logic about Landa leading the Vuelta

Have you seen how SKY ride GTs....Froome will be leader in both races and while some one may start as co leader they will in the end ride for Froome. Landa had his chance this year to lead a GT

Nieve has raced littlecos he is doing Tour/Vuelta double

I hardly read the SKY stuff and I know this

The questions are around Poels, Kiry & Kennaugh

Kwaito will be at the Tour imo
 
Re: Re:

18-Valve. (pithy) said:
gregrowlerson said:
Kennaugh (not sure how recent MTF win in the Dauphne can be ignored)
He barely distanced a semi-sprinter.

I wouldn't take him, but Kennaugh being British probably helps him get selected over a superior rider.
I agree, he was nowhere to be seen for Froome on the other two mountain stages, Lopez and Kwiatkowski were much stronger.
 
Re: Re:

hazaran said:
Tank Engine said:
hazaran said:
Well the Route du Sud isn't really helping clear up this particular quagmire. Moscon (?!?) finishing 2nd on the hardest mountain stage, Henao and Elissonde finishing the stage top 10 while Thomas, Poels (and Stannard) are nowhere, not even keeping it together on the flat.
I don't know this comment is based just on the results or watching the race.
Elissonde finished top 10, since he was designated GC leader after being in the break on stage one. He followed wheels and Henao was clearly stronger

Thomas pulled a lot today. I agree that he couldn't keep it together. The peloton was in pieces when he stopped pulling. :p
Eh I watched the disgraceful 10k of coverage and it doesn't really change anything. When a guy like Thomas is finished with his pull you don't expect there to still be 20 guys in the peloton. Weak performance. Poels really was nowhere. Henao and Elissonde beaten by Rolland are fully their usual mediocre self.

This isn't mountain train material. None of those guys will still be there at 5k on todays form.
Ok. I really don't see what you see so I assume that you have a different point to make that we don't know.
 
Re:

HelloDolly said:
Why are there endless questioning re Landa & Nieve when both are going to the Tour ...enough already leaving them out of teams and putting forth cloud in the sky logic about Landa leading the Vuelta

Have you seen how SKY ride GTs....Froome will be leader in both races and while some one may start as co leader they will in the end ride for Froome. Landa had his chance this year to lead a GT

Nieve has raced littlecos he is doing Tour/Vuelta double

I hardly read the SKY stuff and I know this

The questions are around Poels, Kiry & Kennaugh

Kwaito will be at the Tour imo
That would calm some of the mob in this forum! :D

As per Landa he is paid a salary to do his job. And if he is told to work for Froome he has to do it. He knew that before he signed. He had his chances on the Giro twice. Sorry about what happened to him this year but that is not Froome's problem.
 

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