Team Ineos Discussion thread

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

if the keep Landa in cold storage for the 3rd week and hopefully he can play the Poels role

I think the perfect role for him is to police the breakaways when/if the race comes to such tactics.
He could take a stage while doing work for the team.

They might need him as well to mark Valverde or Fuglsang(!) in the last week if they go balistic trying to crack Froome on behalf of Quintana or Aru. For all the quality in depth of Sky's train, Landa is probably the only one at his peak who can match the w/kg of someone like Valverde and help Froome to close any gap.

 

[sir fly]

Re: Re:

if the keep Landa in cold storage for the 3rd week and hopefully he can play the Poels role

I think the perfect role for him is to police the breakaways when/if the race comes to such tactics.
He could take a stage while doing work for the team.

They might need him as well to mark Valverde or Fuglsang(!) in the last week if they go balistic trying to crack Froome on behalf of Quintana or Aru. For all the quality in depth of Sky's train, Landa is probably the only one at his peak who can match the w/kg of someone like Valverde and help Froome to close any gap.

Yes, he can police them in the group, too.
Henao is the second man of such ability, but less effective further up the road, seems to me.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Re: Re:

That would be a fun exercise. Create the weakest possible team Sky could send to the TDF to protect Froome (still have to include the dawg ofc though.)

Ian Boswell
Benat Intxausti
Owain Doull
Tao Hart
Jonathan Dibben
Lukasz Wisniowski
Kenny Elissonde
Michal Golas

Poor Phil Deignan can't even get picked on Sky's WORST team for the Tour.

You have to feel for the guy. 12 years a pro, a grand tour stage winner, works his **** off for every team he's rode for, week in week out, but always surplus to requirements come July.

Deignan is too reliable a climbing domestique to get on anyone's "worst" selection. But if he really wants to do the Tour he will have to change teams because you have to be in the top 20 climbers in the world or be a top level all rounder to be picked by Sky and he's neither. Given that he consistently has to act as a domestique even when they have no remaining GC leader left in races and that he doesn't get an occasional chance to lead small races, I assume that his relationship with Sky involves taking the Murdoch cash in return for having not the slightest remaining ambition of his own.

He would be a very useful addition to a lot of other Tour squads.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Re: Re:

if the keep Landa in cold storage for the 3rd week and hopefully he can play the Poels role

I think the perfect role for him is to police the breakaways when/if the race comes to such tactics.
He could take a stage while doing work for the team.

They might need him as well to mark Valverde or Fuglsang(!) in the last week if they go balistic trying to crack Froome on behalf of Quintana or Aru. For all the quality in depth of Sky's train, Landa is probably the only one at his peak who can match the w/kg of someone like Valverde and help Froome to close any gap.

Yes, he can police them in the group, too.
Henao is the second man of such ability, but less effective further up the road, seems to me.

When people thought that Landa would be saved to ride for himself at the Vuelta that was wishful thinking. If anyone thinks Sky give a rats anus about Landa having the possibility of winning a stage, that too is wishful thinking. Landa took the Murdoch dollar to help Froome win. He is there to help Froome win. The Giro was his opportunity to ride for himself. That opportunity has passed. He is a train donkey now.

 

[sir fly]

Re: Re:

if the keep Landa in cold storage for the 3rd week and hopefully he can play the Poels role

I think the perfect role for him is to police the breakaways when/if the race comes to such tactics.
He could take a stage while doing work for the team.

They might need him as well to mark Valverde or Fuglsang(!) in the last week if they go balistic trying to crack Froome on behalf of Quintana or Aru. For all the quality in depth of Sky's train, Landa is probably the only one at his peak who can match the w/kg of someone like Valverde and help Froome to close any gap.

Yes, he can police them in the group, too.
Henao is the second man of such ability, but less effective further up the road, seems to me.

When people thought that Landa would be saved to ride for himself at the Vuelta that was wishful thinking. If anyone thinks Sky give a rats anus about Landa having the possibility of winning a stage, that too is wishful thinking. Landa took the Murdoch dollar to help Froome win. He is there to help Froome win. The Giro was his opportunity to ride for himself. That opportunity has passed. He is a train donkey now.

Off course his primary duties will be related to Froome. But that doesn't exclude an opportunity for him if one arises.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

if the keep Landa in cold storage for the 3rd week and hopefully he can play the Poels role

I think the perfect role for him is to police the breakaways when/if the race comes to such tactics.
He could take a stage while doing work for the team.

They might need him as well to mark Valverde or Fuglsang(!) in the last week if they go balistic trying to crack Froome on behalf of Quintana or Aru. For all the quality in depth of Sky's train, Landa is probably the only one at his peak who can match the w/kg of someone like Valverde and help Froome to close any gap.

Yes, he can police them in the group, too.
Henao is the second man of such ability, but less effective further up the road, seems to me.

When people thought that Landa would be saved to ride for himself at the Vuelta that was wishful thinking. If anyone thinks Sky give a rats anus about Landa having the possibility of winning a stage, that too is wishful thinking. Landa took the Murdoch dollar to help Froome win. He is there to help Froome win. The Giro was his opportunity to ride for himself. That opportunity has passed. He is a train donkey now.

And thats why he is leaving, fair game.

 

[deValtos]

From what I read Landa hoped to stay at Sky but I'm guessing they were not keen to keep him at his current contract level so he's decided to go elsewhere? To SpanishSky. :lol:

 

[silvergrenade]

Re: Re:

It almost feels like cheating have a domestique that can climb with the best and also crush it on the flat. It's like two teammates in one.

It does feel like that! Basically like having an 11 man team. As far as GCs are concerned the only real weakness of Thomas and Kwiatkowski is the odd really bad day that they have, but that doesn't really matter in such a strong team, as someone else can step up and cover them when that happens.

The big shame I guess is that neither of those two (or Landa) will be able to stage hunt and show all their talent. They'll be used to suffocate the race rather than to animate it.

Only if Froomeys in yellow. Else they'll have to show their talent :lol:

 

[Tank Engine]

Re:

From CN Article.

Team Sky for the Tour de France:

Chris Froome (Gbr), Geraint Thomas (Gbr), Mikel Landa (Spa), Michal Kwiatkowski (Pol), Christian Knees (Ger), Vasil Kiryienka (Blr), Mikel Nieve (Spa), Sergio Henao (Col), Luke Rowe (Gbr) and Christian Knees (Ger).

Mon the clones...

Especially, the pair of Knees

No great surprises. I guess Stannard was originally scheduled to ride, but he hasn't had a great season and retired from the Dauphine. I guess Kiri is his replacement. Obviously, a strong and well balanced GC team.

Edit: Of course, Poels would have been scheduled to ride the Tour at the beginning of the season, but due to his injury, a ride in the Vuelta seems the obvious solution and hence the swap with (I guess) Landa.

 

[Leinster]

It might work out for Poels if he gets to ride for GC for once.

Landa won't get to ride for himself at Sky, so it makes sense for him to move. Of course, at Movistar he'll be riding support for Quintana, who's 5 younger than Froome, and the same age as himself.

Deignan I can see just not signing for another team when Sky stop renewing him. I suspect he's probably long since accepted that at 34 now,he'll probably never ride the Tour.

 

[hazaran]

What is it with people constantly bringing up $(2nd rate GC rider / climber) for "their chance" at the Vuelta or whatever?

The calculus is very simple. Froome GT finishes: 2nd Vuelta 2011, 2nd Tour 2012, 4th Vuelta 2012, 1st Tour 2013, 2nd Vuelta 2014, 1st Tour 2015, 1st Tour 2016, 2nd Vuelta 2016

Unless your personal favorite rider is anywhere close to that level of performance, the only free GT for the entirety of Sky is and has been since 2012 the Giro. If your favorite rider happens to crash out of the Giro or otherwise finish all the way down, that does not in any way enhance his imaginary chances of "leadership" at the Vuelta or a "free role" in the Tour.

 

[Leinster]

I'm no big Poels fan, but I can acknowledge that weaker riders than him in the current peloton have in the past captained World Tour teams for GC in a 3-week stage race.

Froome obviously has first refusal on the Sky number ending in 1 in Nimes in August, but sooner or later he's gonna get older, and he's gonna decide that going for that GT double just isn't worth it/he doesn't have the legs for another go.

Maybe he's right that his prep is still on course, but the indications are there in his form so far this season that this could be his Indurain '96 or Lemond '91 year. So the question then is when (not if) Brailsford cuts the cord, who's going to be next cab off the rank?

 

[sir fly]

Re:

I'm no big Poels fan, but I can acknowledge that weaker riders than him in the current peloton have in the past captained World Tour teams for GC in a 3-week stage race.

Froome obviously has first refusal on the Sky number ending in 1 in Nimes in August, but sooner or later he's gonna get older, and he's gonna decide that going for that GT double just isn't worth it/he doesn't have the legs for another go.

Maybe he's right that his prep is still on course, but the indications are there in his form so far this season that this could be his Indurain '96 or Lemond '91 year. So the question then is when (not if) Brailsford cuts the cord, who's going to be next cab off the rank?

I think the contract renewal(s) imply the packing order.
Think you've right speaking about Froome's targets when he realizes he doesn't have a double in his legs (anymore). Several times he repeated he'll race as long as there are legs and motive.

 

[Ricco']

What's up with Danny Van Poppel?

He started the year with good shape but after the Australian micro-season he is nowhere to be seen...

He's only 23, but is been at the top tier for so many years that it seems he's been at this level forever and his progression seems stalled at the moment.

 

[CTQ]

Re:

What's up with Danny Van Poppel?

He started the year with good shape but after the Australian micro-season he is nowhere to be seen...

He's only 23, but is been at the top tier for so many years that it seems he's been at this level forever and his progression seems stalled at the moment.

he started last season with knee injury, i believe . perharps he still have problems with .

 

[liamito]

Anybody know if Brailsford recently said something about Thomas his role for the Tour? Do they expect him to be ready to be their second option from the start and try for GC as well?

 

[Oliver]

Re:

What's up with Danny Van Poppel?

He started the year with good shape but after the Australian micro-season he is nowhere to be seen...

He's only 23, but is been at the top tier for so many years that it seems he's been at this level forever and his progression seems stalled at the moment.

Not the right team for him I guess. Same for Viviani.

 

[Gloin22]

Re: Re:

What's up with Danny Van Poppel?

He started the year with good shape but after the Australian micro-season he is nowhere to be seen...

He's only 23, but is been at the top tier for so many years that it seems he's been at this level forever and his progression seems stalled at the moment.

Not the right team for him I guess. Same for Viviani.

Viviani loves it there

 

[Nirvana]

Re: Re:

What's up with Danny Van Poppel?

He started the year with good shape but after the Australian micro-season he is nowhere to be seen...

He's only 23, but is been at the top tier for so many years that it seems he's been at this level forever and his progression seems stalled at the moment.

Not the right team for him I guess. Same for Viviani.

Sky is the only team that allow Viviani to ride on the track everytime he wants even if that means bad results on the road like in most of 2016 season.

 

[Pricey_sky]

Re: Re:

What's up with Danny Van Poppel?

He started the year with good shape but after the Australian micro-season he is nowhere to be seen...

He's only 23, but is been at the top tier for so many years that it seems he's been at this level forever and his progression seems stalled at the moment.

Not the right team for him I guess. Same for Viviani.

Sky is the only team that allow Viviani to ride on the track everytime he wants even if that means bad results on the road like in most of 2016 season.

I'm pretty confident he's paid quite well for his services too, would any other team pay him quite so much and still give him the freedom to ride the track when he wishes? I'm not so sure they would.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Re: Re:

What's up with Danny Van Poppel?

He started the year with good shape but after the Australian micro-season he is nowhere to be seen...

He's only 23, but is been at the top tier for so many years that it seems he's been at this level forever and his progression seems stalled at the moment.

Not the right team for him I guess. Same for Viviani.

Sky is the only team that allow Viviani to ride on the track everytime he wants even if that means bad results on the road like in most of 2016 season.

I'm pretty confident he's paid quite well for his services too, would any other team pay him quite so much and still give him the freedom to ride the track when he wishes? I'm not so sure they would.

To be honest I don't know why Sky does.

 

[Nirvana]

Re: Re:

What's up with Danny Van Poppel?

He started the year with good shape but after the Australian micro-season he is nowhere to be seen...

He's only 23, but is been at the top tier for so many years that it seems he's been at this level forever and his progression seems stalled at the moment.

Not the right team for him I guess. Same for Viviani.

Sky is the only team that allow Viviani to ride on the track everytime he wants even if that means bad results on the road like in most of 2016 season.

I'm pretty confident he's paid quite well for his services too, would any other team pay him quite so much and still give him the freedom to ride the track when he wishes? I'm not so sure they would.

According to what he said last year in the long interview for "A tu per tu" on Bike Channel, when he was in search of a new team, after the merger of Cannondale and Garmin, other teams asked to him to quit the track and focus on the road. Only Sky was supportive for his track program so was a natural choice.

I think he knows that if he wants to defend his medal in Tokyo he needs to stay at Sky and he accepts what the team decides for him also if that means to skip races like the Giro.

 

[Leinster]

Re:

Anybody know if Brailsford recently said something about Thomas his role for the Tour? Do they expect him to be ready to be their second option from the start and try for GC as well?

G is the obvious 2nd choice GC rider, and it wouldn't make sense to wear him down until it's absolutely necessary. If he can stay in a threatening overall position into the 3rd week, then he'll still be a potential tactical card Sky can play. Send him up the road and make others chase. So I wouldn't read it as "trying for GC as well," but maintaining the advantage of having 2 guys that Contador/Quintana/Porte has to keep an eye on.

 

[Ruby United]

Re: Re:

Anybody know if Brailsford recently said something about Thomas his role for the Tour? Do they expect him to be ready to be their second option from the start and try for GC as well?

G is the obvious 2nd choice GC rider, and it wouldn't make sense to wear him down until it's absolutely necessary. If he can stay in a threatening overall position into the 3rd week, then he'll still be a potential tactical card Sky can play. Send him up the road and make others chase. So I wouldn't read it as "trying for GC as well," but maintaining the advantage of having 2 guys that Contador/Quintana/Porte has to keep an eye on.

Sky do not work like that. They will use Thomas to his full capability and if he manages to maintain a high position despite that, than they will use him as a tactical card.
A good example is Porte 2013, on Ax 3 Domaines

 

[Leinster]

2013 on Ax 3 Domaines? When Porte caught and dropped Quintana after Froome had already caught and dropped him? Porte blew up the next day because he blew up, not because it was Sky's tactic to let him drift down the standings. Thomas the last couple of years is more an idea of what Sky expect from their 2nd in command; 2 15th places is better than any of Porte's GC finishes as a Sky rider.