Team Ineos Discussion thread

[Brullnux]

"Then I erase them from my memory for ever"

Seems a bit 1984-y. My point re the classics squad was that it is objectively the most likeable and enjoyable part of Sky, but most Sky fans massively prefer GTs.

 

[rlntlssly]

Re: Team Sky Discussion thread

Disliking Sky because they use the most effective tactics for winning grand tours is like disliking a football team because they play a goalkeeper rather than an extra centre-forward.

 

[Brullnux]

Re: Team Sky Discussion thread

Disliking Sky because they use the most effective tactics for winning grand tours is like disliking a football team because they play a goalkeeper rather than an extra centre-forward.

Not really. It's like disliking a football team for playing Del Bosque tiki taka (i.e score one goal and not let your opponent touch the ball for the rest of the game, while doing nothing at the same time) after buying the best midfielders, strong defenders and fantastic strikers because they're rich af.

 

[rlntlssly]

Re: Team Sky Discussion thread

Disliking Sky because they use the most effective tactics for winning grand tours is like disliking a football team because they play a goalkeeper rather than an extra centre-forward.

Not really. It's like disliking a football team for playing Del Bosque tiki taka (i.e score one goal and not let your opponent touch the ball for the rest of the game, while doing nothing at the same time) after buying the best midfielders, strong defenders and fantastic strikers because they're rich af.

This post has gone way beyond my knowledge of football!

What I mean is, by all means dislike them because you don't like the sponsor, or you don't like the money, or you prefer Italians to Britons, or any number of variously convincing reasons, but disliking them because they use the only genuinely sensible tactic for winning a bike race seems strange to me.

 

[Red Rick]

Roger Federer has about 19 times as many fans as Novak Djokovic, and outside GB, about 390 million as many fans as Andy Murray's 3 fans (I think it's me, my brother, and some weird Norwegian guy).

I wonder why.

And that's not to say tennis has a lot opf different nuances, and even the defensive players can play super interesting if you bother to pay attention. For Sky the only interestin thing often is if they're gonna do 420 or 425W

 

[Brullnux]

Re: Team Sky Discussion thread

Disliking Sky because they use the most effective tactics for winning grand tours is like disliking a football team because they play a goalkeeper rather than an extra centre-forward.

Not really. It's like disliking a football team for playing Del Bosque tiki taka (i.e score one goal and not let your opponent touch the ball for the rest of the game, while doing nothing at the same time) after buying the best midfielders, strong defenders and fantastic strikers because they're rich af.

This post has gone way beyond my knowledge of football!

What I mean is, by all means dislike them because you don't like the sponsor, or you don't like the money, or you prefer Italians to Britons, or any number of variously convincing reasons, but disliking them because they use the only genuinely sensible tactic for winning a bike race seems strange to me.

I disagree. What sky do is completely understandable, and they have built their team around it so they have optimised it as well. But it is boring to watch, for many. They have learnt to control the race so well that not much happens in them anymore. There are other ways of winning GTs as others have shown, which are more exciting. As watching professional cycling is essentially always done for entertainment purposes, it doesn't really fulfil that for many. I'm not arguing it's validity as a tactic, but rather it's watchability. I watch cycling to be entertained, and if there's one team pushing out a certain number of watts the whole time, then I leave unsatisfied.

I'll go back to the football analogy. Spain's tactics worked brilliantly between 2008 and 2012, and they won everything they could win but it was really dull to watch at times. They'd score once, maybe twice, and control the rest of the game with an iron fist just passing the ball around the midfield. Sometimes they'd go mad and go full Guardiola and pass the ball with a purpose, but sometimes they'd just sit back. For the team Spain had at the time it was the optimal tactic of course, but it was slightly dull. I'm a bit hypocritical I admit as I love to watch when a team goes full catenaccio on another team and defends with their life, but look as if they are effortlessly controlling the game by just staying in defence as I always think a perfect defence is extremely rare but extremely beautiful, but I understand why others may find it dull. Disliking a team because they are perceived by someone to be boring is perfectly reasonable imo.

 

[Põhja Konn]

Re: Team Sky Discussion thread

Disliking Sky because they use the most effective tactics for winning grand tours is like disliking a football team because they play a goalkeeper rather than an extra centre-forward.

Closest football analogy would be Mourinho's Chelsea during his first spell there. Arrogant nouveau riche side playing mostly dull and unimaginative, but highly effective game, leading to multiple big trophies. All that while being lead by an insufferable egomaniac of a coach.

 

[Jagartrott]

Re: Team Sky Discussion thread

Disliking Sky because they use the most effective tactics for winning grand tours is like disliking a football team because they play a goalkeeper rather than an extra centre-forward.

Closest football analogy would be Mourinho's Chelsea during his first spell there. Arrogant nouveau riche side playing mostly dull and unimaginative, but highly effective game, leading to multiple big trophies. All that while being lead by an insufferable egomaniac of a coach.

Right on target, this post.

 

[jsem94]

Maybe we need Financial Fair Play in cycling too... That would probably stop UAE and Bahrain from spending big on their cycling teams now though. Maybe cycling is better off without them anyway. Football would be better off without Qatar's PSG project anyway.

 

[wouterkaas]

http://www.radsport-news.com/sport/sportnews_105699.htm
Nice diary written bij AG2R rider Nico Denz whole day was apparently saved by Christian Knees who got him a coke and water from the Sky team car. Always nice to hear rider helping out fellow riders from another team

 

[Pricey_sky]

Re:

http://www.radsport-news.com/sport/sportnews_105699.htm
Nice diary written bij AG2R rider Nico Denz whole day was apparently saved by Christian Knees who got him a coke and water from the Sky team car. Always nice to hear rider helping out fellow riders from another team

Always good to see the sportsmanship and camaraderie between riders and teams. I think this kind of thing happens more than we get to see, In one of the final stages of Poland when Sagan cracked badly he was offered a can of fizzy drink from the Sky car.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Team Sky Discussion thread

Disliking Sky because they use the most effective tactics for winning grand tours is like disliking a football team because they play a goalkeeper rather than an extra centre-forward.

Not really. It's like disliking a football team for playing Del Bosque tiki taka (i.e score one goal and not let your opponent touch the ball for the rest of the game, while doing nothing at the same time) after buying the best midfielders, strong defenders and fantastic strikers because they're rich af.

This post has gone way beyond my knowledge of football!

What I mean is, by all means dislike them because you don't like the sponsor, or you don't like the money, or you prefer Italians to Britons, or any number of variously convincing reasons, but disliking them because they use the only genuinely sensible tactic for winning a bike race seems strange to me.

That tactic combined with their big budget which allows them to buy the best riders is what makes stage racing so boring these days, so it's absolutely normal to dislike them for it. And no, it's not the only sensible tactic for winning a bike race, many races have been won with different tactics.

 

[Bot. Sky_Bot]

Re: Team Sky Discussion thread

Disliking Sky because they use the most effective tactics for winning grand tours is like disliking a football team because they play a goalkeeper rather than an extra centre-forward.

Not really. It's like disliking a football team for playing Del Bosque tiki taka (i.e score one goal and not let your opponent touch the ball for the rest of the game, while doing nothing at the same time) after buying the best midfielders, strong defenders and fantastic strikers because they're rich af.

This post has gone way beyond my knowledge of football!

What I mean is, by all means dislike them because you don't like the sponsor, or you don't like the money, or you prefer Italians to Britons, or any number of variously convincing reasons, but disliking them because they use the only genuinely sensible tactic for winning a bike race seems strange to me.

That tactic combined with their big budget which allows them to buy the best riders is what makes stage racing so boring these days, so it's absolutely normal to dislike them for it. And no, it's not the only sensible tactic for winning a bike race, many races have been won with different tactics.

Really?
During Giro 2017 Movistar had the same tactics: super strong team trying to drop Dumoulin.
Wasn't it a train composed of Anacona, Amador, Sutherland, Herrada, de la Parte.........?
What was today's tactics of 4 teams? They controlled the high pace of peloton just to check Froome's limit.
The same - was it 4teams train or not?

 

[wwabbit]

Re: Team Sky Discussion thread

Disliking Sky because they use the most effective tactics for winning grand tours is like disliking a football team because they play a goalkeeper rather than an extra centre-forward.

Closest football analogy would be Mourinho's Chelsea during his first spell there. Arrogant nouveau riche side playing mostly dull and unimaginative, but highly effective game, leading to multiple big trophies. All that while being lead by an insufferable egomaniac of a coach.

And the analogy I see is that supporters of teams like Barcelona, Real Madrid and Manchester United are bitching about teams like Chelsea when their own teams have been guilty of the exact same thing for years before Chelsea made an appearance.

Apparently domination is okay if your favorite team is dominating but not when their rivals are dominating.

 

[Jungle Cycle]

I dont deslike the riders. Quite the opposite but when you see in the last mtn, time and time again, 4-5 skys in front of a +/-25 exhausted gc group i can't start to wonder how things would've been different if Froome was at Ag2r for example.. as was sad in the forum before Froome probably would've won it but the race probably would've been more fun to watch..
I liked the soccer analogy since i'm brazilian but i like to think that to be Sky DS is like choose your velogames with 120pts and the others with 100..
Don't think salary cap will work because will be almost impossible to control it. Maybe even more reduce team. We'll see next year with 8 if anything change...

 

[telencefalus]

When was the last time a team win a monument classic and two grand tours in the same year?

 

[telencefalus]

Indurain team was not able to do it , and i think also mercatone uno with pantani , so we have to go to Hinault or roche ,

 

[telencefalus]

oh i find it it was with Carrera , roche to giro tour and machler milano sanremo in 1987

 

[telencefalus]

so we could say that in modern cycling that i think starts with indurain Team sky is the best team ever

 

[telencefalus]

and btw i don't know why they don't go for team classification at la vuelta , they are second at the moment behind astana , but they have the potential to win the team classification , so why don't go for it and leave it to astana?

 

[telencefalus]

Moscon Yesterday was forced to a very bad performace , making no honour for the italian flag

 

[telencefalus]

So i think that Dve Brailsford has to be cannibal , why leave team gc to Astana ? They are clearly better , they have a chance to be in the history, no team won a monument , two grand tours and both the team gc in the same year , this would put team sky in a League of ther own forever

 

[telencefalus]

i like stats a lot , and don't know why team sky will give up to enter in the pantheon of cycling

 

[spalco]

Re:

and btw i don't know why they don't go for team classification at la vuelta , they are second at the moment behind astana , but they have the potential to win the team classification , so why don't go for it and leave it to astana?

Nobody gives a *** about the team classification.

 

[telencefalus]

Re: Re:

and btw i don't know why they don't go for team classification at la vuelta , they are second at the moment behind astana , but they have the potential to win the team classification , so why don't go for it and leave it to astana?

Nobody gives a **** about the team classification.

Are you kidding it's very important for the legacy of a cycling team