Team Ineos Discussion thread

[HelloDolly]

At this moment Carapaz is probably Ineos strongest GT rider..that is of course if he is ready

I saw where that boy comes from and he doesnt need any motivation. I'd love Carapaz to be in top form as he is about the only rider I think that can beat Rojlic or Dumoulin

 

[Red Rick]

At this moment Carapaz is probably Ineos strongest GT rider..that is of course if he is ready

I saw where that boy comes from and he doesnt need any motivation. I'd love Carapaz to be in top form as he is about the only rider I think that can beat Rojlic or Dumoulin

He beat Nibali by 2 minutes after being gifted 3.

 

[HelloDolly]

There are no gifts in cycling

 

[Blanco]

At this moment Carapaz is probably Ineos strongest GT rider..that is of course if he is ready

I saw where that boy comes from and he doesnt need any motivation. I'd love Carapaz to be in top form as he is about the only rider I think that can beat Rojlic or Dumoulin

It's all about Bernal at the Tour. I'm afraid that guy, Carapaz, will have a destiny of so many other promising riders at Sky. His breakthrough chance was this Giro, but nevertheless...

 

[KZD]

I like Brailsford's reasoning. Froome and Thomas weren't good enough for the Tour so they were cast aside, makes perfect sense to me.

Thomas must feel like he misses his last chance of winning the Tour again but at least gets to lead a Giro that suits him well, although whether he will be able to motivate himself for that goal is a completely different question. (its still far from certain if the Giro will even take place).

Regarding Carapaz, he may lose the chance of Giro leadership but he gets to be in the biggest race of them all and with a protected rider status. This also gives him a chance of riding the Vuelta, a race that suits him really well, with a possible leadership opportunity. (I don't think that Froome will be ready to lead Ineos).

The rest of the team is more or less what was expected, interesting choice of Amador over Tao or Dunbar but I think is the right one considering how valuable he can be as a domestique.

 

[Red Rick]

I like Brailsford's reasoning. Froome and Thomas weren't good enough for the Tour so they were cast aside, makes perfect sense to me.

Thomas must feel like he misses his last chance of winning the Tour again but at least gets to lead a Giro that suits him well, although whether he will be able to motivate himself for that goal is a completely different question. (its still far from certain if the Giro will even take place).

Regarding Carapaz, he may lose the chance of Giro leadership but he gets to be in the biggest race of them all and with a protected rider status. This also gives him a chance of riding the Vuelta, a race that suits him really well, with a possible leadership opportunity. (I don't think that Froome will be ready to lead Ineos).

The rest of the team is more or less what was expected, interesting choice of Amador over Tao or Dunbar but I think is the right one considering how valuable he can be as a domestique.

I don't see how Carapaz is gonna be in great shape for the Tour when he target was 5 weeks later.

 

[Ted Striker]

There are no gifts in cycling

except Alberto on the Alto de l'Angliru in 2017

 

[SHAD0W93]

except Alberto on the Alto de l'Angliru in 2017

Since Froome has a long history of gifting and not trying to beat his opponents every way he can.

 

[KZD]

I don't see how Carapaz is gonna be in great shape for the Tour when he target was 5 weeks later.

He doesn't need to be in a great shape, he just needs to be better than Thomas and I don't doubt that he will.

 

[Lequack]

Thomas was saving himself for the Tour actually.

 

[Merckx index]

Seems to me that Ineos would have maximized their chances in the three GTs by having Carapaz lead the Giro, and sending both Froome and Thomas to the Vuelta. Bernal may or may not win the TDF, but I don't think Carapaz will make that much difference in the outcome. From what we saw in the Dauphine, Ineos didn't have a problem getting Bernal to the final climb, he just couldn't stay with Roglic at the end. Another strong dom isn't going to affect that that much.

Carapaz seems to be their best option for the Giro. Sending both Froome and Thomas to the Vuelta doubles the chances that one of them will find better form and contend. If both do, they can be co-leaders, something they've had experience with.

 

[jaylew]

At this moment Carapaz is probably Ineos strongest GT rider..that is of course if he is ready

Nah. Bernal is stronger than Carapaz. I don't expect Carapaz to be in good enough shape to compete for the win but Brailsford was right to leave Froome and Thomas at home. It's Bernal or bust for Ineos, I'd say. Sivakov and Carapaz could go top 10, though.

 

[Oldermanish]

Nah. Bernal is stronger than Carapaz. I don't expect Carapaz to be in good enough shape to compete for the win but Brailsford was right to leave Froome and Thomas at home. It's Bernal or bust for Ineos, I'd say. Sivakov and Carapaz could go top 10, though.

After watching the Dauphine the one conclusion I could draw was Sivakov was tough in the one week event, after some good riders crashed out. We don't know what to expect from Bernal and I haven't heard much about Carapaz. Given Bernal and Carapaz at their peak I'm not sure it's a given which one is the current best for Ineos.

 

[skidmark]

Seems to me that Ineos would have maximized their chances in the three GTs by having Carapaz lead the Giro, and sending both Froome and Thomas to the Vuelta. Bernal may or may not win the TDF, but I don't think Carapaz will make that much difference in the outcome. From what we saw in the Dauphine, Ineos didn't have a problem getting Bernal to the final climb, he just couldn't stay with Roglic at the end. Another strong dom isn't going to affect that that much.

Carapaz seems to be their best option for the Giro. Sending both Froome and Thomas to the Vuelta doubles the chances that one of them will find better form and contend. If both do, they can be co-leaders, something they've had experience with.

It's true, but I have never seen Sky/Ineos have a goal of maximizing their chances in three GTs. They, more than any other team, have coldly embodied the realization that the Tour is 90% of the attention and money in cycling, and have thrown everything at it since their inception essentially.

The only times I can remember them even moderately hyping a tilt at a GT other than the tour:

• Wiggins Vuelta 2011 after he crashed out of the Tour and before they'd really won anything as a team
• Wiggins Giro 2013 after he had won the Tour and wanted to go for the Giro for a lark, plus it was convenient to avoid the blatant obviousness of Froome being better
• Porte in the Giro for a few years where he wasn't good enough to win the Tour, but wanted to lead and was good enough to get his own camper van
• Thomas in the Giro for a couple of years before he had really done anything in GTs and needed a proving ground (which mostly proved he could crash out of races)
• Froome in the Vuelta because he wanted to eventually complete the set but didn't want to gamble on doing a GT before the Tour without a 5 week window (several times)
• Bernal in the Giro because they didn't want a leadership controversy (and then he broke his collarbone and they did anyway)

They never really hyped (or, at least in my perception) the GT attempts of the likes of Landa and Henao.

The whole 'Thomas and Froome can focus on the other GTs' is just saving face. They throw all their best power at the Tour, and Jumbo putting together a train that is better than theirs scares them. It doesn't matter if Carapaz wanted to peak for the Giro, they'd rather have him super-dom for Bernal and give Bernal a better chance at not being worked over by TJV than win the Giro with him. Carapaz, Sivakov, and even Castro and Kwiatko are showing better climbing form than Froome and Thomas, so they got picked. I think leadership of the other GTs is an afterthought, and if they choose to spin the focus on that, it is reverse engineering their motivation.

 

[The Hegelian]

It's true, but I have never seen Sky/Ineos have a goal of maximizing their chances in three GTs. They, more than any other team, have coldly embodied the realization that the Tour is 90% of the attention and money in cycling, and have thrown everything at it since their inception essentially.

The only times I can remember them even moderately hyping a tilt at a GT other than the tour:

• Wiggins Vuelta 2011 after he crashed out of the Tour and before they'd really won anything as a team
• Wiggins Giro 2013 after he had won the Tour and wanted to go for the Giro for a lark, plus it was convenient to avoid the blatant obviousness of Froome being better
• Porte in the Giro for a few years where he wasn't good enough to win the Tour, but wanted to lead and was good enough to get his own camper van
• Thomas in the Giro for a couple of years before he had really done anything in GTs and needed a proving ground (which mostly proved he could crash out of races)
• Froome in the Vuelta because he wanted to eventually complete the set but didn't want to gamble on doing a GT before the Tour without a 5 week window (several times)
• Bernal in the Giro because they didn't want a leadership controversy (and then he broke his collarbone and they did anyway)

They never really hyped (or, at least in my perception) the GT attempts of the likes of Landa and Henao.

The whole 'Thomas and Froome can focus on the other GTs' is just saving face. They throw all their best power at the Tour, and Jumbo putting together a train that is better than theirs scares them. It doesn't matter if Carapaz wanted to peak for the Giro, they'd rather have him super-dom for Bernal and give Bernal a better chance at not being worked over by TJV than win the Giro with him. Carapaz, Sivakov, and even Castro and Kwiatko are showing better climbing form than Froome and Thomas, so they got picked. I think leadership of the other GTs is an afterthought, and if they choose to spin the focus on that, it is reverse engineering their motivation.

Largely agree. It's always been all in for the tdf, and they're doing whatever they can do maxmise their change of another win. Everything else follows.

 

[Koronin]

It's true, but I have never seen Sky/Ineos have a goal of maximizing their chances in three GTs. They, more than any other team, have coldly embodied the realization that the Tour is 90% of the attention and money in cycling, and have thrown everything at it since their inception essentially.

The only times I can remember them even moderately hyping a tilt at a GT other than the tour:

• Wiggins Vuelta 2011 after he crashed out of the Tour and before they'd really won anything as a team
• Wiggins Giro 2013 after he had won the Tour and wanted to go for the Giro for a lark, plus it was convenient to avoid the blatant obviousness of Froome being better
• Porte in the Giro for a few years where he wasn't good enough to win the Tour, but wanted to lead and was good enough to get his own camper van
• Thomas in the Giro for a couple of years before he had really done anything in GTs and needed a proving ground (which mostly proved he could crash out of races)
• Froome in the Vuelta because he wanted to eventually complete the set but didn't want to gamble on doing a GT before the Tour without a 5 week window (several times)
• Bernal in the Giro because they didn't want a leadership controversy (and then he broke his collarbone and they did anyway)

They never really hyped (or, at least in my perception) the GT attempts of the likes of Landa and Henao.

The whole 'Thomas and Froome can focus on the other GTs' is just saving face. They throw all their best power at the Tour, and Jumbo putting together a train that is better than theirs scares them. It doesn't matter if Carapaz wanted to peak for the Giro, they'd rather have him super-dom for Bernal and give Bernal a better chance at not being worked over by TJV than win the Giro with him. Carapaz, Sivakov, and even Castro and Kwiatko are showing better climbing form than Froome and Thomas, so they got picked. I think leadership of the other GTs is an afterthought, and if they choose to spin the focus on that, it is reverse engineering their motivation.

I basically agree with this. Landa did a lot of his own hyping of his shot at the Giro, but you're right, don't remember Ineos/Sky hyping it. Even when they've hyped a 2nd GT I can't remember them ever hyping all 3. Other teams have.

 

[Merckx index]

I have never seen Sky/Ineos have a goal of maximizing their chances in three GTs.

I don't disagree, but that's because most of the time, they haven't had two riders who were good enough to contend in both the Giro and the Tour (very few teams ever do)--except, as you note, when Wiggins rode the Giro, and even then, expectations were low. When both those GTs are in play, the strategy changes. When Froome rode the Giro in 2018, Sky knew that he was reducing his chances of winning the Tour that year, probably by more than not having Carapaz would hurt Bernal's chances this year--but they let him go for the double. If Thomas hadn't come out of nowhere, Froome's Giro would have cost Sky the TDF, but that was a gamble they evidently were willing to take.

The whole 'Thomas and Froome can focus on the other GTs' is just saving face.

Again, I don't disagree at all with this. Maybe Ineos felt they had to give each rider his own GT to save face completely.

 

[Koronin]

Again, I don't disagree at all with this. Maybe Ineos felt they had to give each rider his own GT to save face completely.

That possible. I also wouldn't be surprised if not wanting a circus could be part of this as well. They saw all the issues Movistar had even when they didn't have anyone really in the hunt for the podium.

 

[bambino]

Again, I don't disagree at all with this. Maybe Ineos felt they had to give each rider his own GT to save face completely.

Even "give" is a big word here, as I do not believe Froome/Thomas will have sole leadership in Vuelta/Giro unless their shape takes monster leap in coming month. I have very strong feeling Carapaz will ride Giro. And I also believe Bernal will be in Vuelta, depending of course on the outcome of the Tour.

 

[gregrowlerson]

To be fair to Sky/Ineos, their strong historical targeting of the TDF in great preference to the Giro and Vuelta is really no different to any other team that isn't Italian or Spanish. Well, I haven't done much research on this, so I could be wrong, but my perception is that 90% of the time teams/cyclists focus on the TDF. Dumoulin choosing the Giro twice I guess would be an exception.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

I don't see how Carapaz is gonna be in great shape for the Tour when he target was 5 weeks later.

Brailsford must know more than we do. He'll look silly if Carapaz doesn't have the legs. Or only has the legs in week one when (other) teams can easily control the race.

Could still be that Sivakov is the actual backup plan, but they're not hiding the fact that they're hoping that that guy delivers, either. I'm gonna go ahead and assume that Carapaz is their actual #2.

 

[kiszol]

Nah. Bernal is stronger than Carapaz. I don't expect Carapaz to be in good enough shape to compete for the win but Brailsford was right to leave Froome and Thomas at home. It's Bernal or bust for Ineos, I'd say. Sivakov and Carapaz could go top 10, though.

Pretty much. Sending Carapaz to the Tour is desperation. He is not ready for a podium fight but might make a good superdom for the final week(s). And as Froome and Thomas are both terrible they had to do something to give Bernal at least an accepatable team against Jumbo. They are still weaker though.

 

[gregrowlerson]

Brailsford may have let Carapaz know 1-2 months ago that he might be required at the Tour. He could be better prepared than we think.

 

[Breezy1985]

Brailsford must know more than we do. He'll look silly if Carapaz doesn't have the legs. Or only has the legs in week one when (other) teams can easily control the race.

Could still be that Sivakov is the actual backup plan, but they're not hiding the fact that they're hoping that that guy delivers, either. I'm gonna go ahead and assume that Carapaz is their actual #2.

It doesn't really matter who the official #2 is for Ineos as the idea that anyone on the TdF team outside Bernal is a contender of Yellow is a complete fantasy

 

[Red Rick]

It's true, but I have never seen Sky/Ineos have a goal of maximizing their chances in three GTs. They, more than any other team, have coldly embodied the realization that the Tour is 90% of the attention and money in cycling, and have thrown everything at it since their inception essentially.

The only times I can remember them even moderately hyping a tilt at a GT other than the tour:

• Wiggins Vuelta 2011 after he crashed out of the Tour and before they'd really won anything as a team
• Wiggins Giro 2013 after he had won the Tour and wanted to go for the Giro for a lark, plus it was convenient to avoid the blatant obviousness of Froome being better
• Porte in the Giro for a few years where he wasn't good enough to win the Tour, but wanted to lead and was good enough to get his own camper van
• Thomas in the Giro for a couple of years before he had really done anything in GTs and needed a proving ground (which mostly proved he could crash out of races)
• Froome in the Vuelta because he wanted to eventually complete the set but didn't want to gamble on doing a GT before the Tour without a 5 week window (several times)
• Bernal in the Giro because they didn't want a leadership controversy (and then he broke his collarbone and they did anyway)

They never really hyped (or, at least in my perception) the GT attempts of the likes of Landa and Henao.

The whole 'Thomas and Froome can focus on the other GTs' is just saving face. They throw all their best power at the Tour, and Jumbo putting together a train that is better than theirs scares them. It doesn't matter if Carapaz wanted to peak for the Giro, they'd rather have him super-dom for Bernal and give Bernal a better chance at not being worked over by TJV than win the Giro with him. Carapaz, Sivakov, and even Castro and Kwiatko are showing better climbing form than Froome and Thomas, so they got picked. I think leadership of the other GTs is an afterthought, and if they choose to spin the focus on that, it is reverse engineering their motivation.

So much this.

Just look at the Sky teams in the 2018 and 2019 Vuelta's as well.