Team Ineos Discussion thread

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I was thinking the same thing. Why not just tell Froome/GT that they'll be riding as super-doms for Bernal, just as SK or TD is riding for Roglic? Carapaz is young, less experienced and his form is unknown. The only answer is that Froome is so far away from where he needs to be that the Vuelta is his only GT chance this year (which of course is what Ineos said -- so it's likely correct...).

Thomas has been a bit of an enigma this year. I think at his age all the cards had to align for him to peak for the Tour in July...and the lockdowns threw him off his game, physically and mentally.

If Carapaz is as good as he was in the Giro, he'll be a huge help to Bernal, and might even be a podium option. He did beat Roglic, after all...
I guess that was the plan for Froome, he was decent in the Tour de l'Ain, but went backwards in the Dauphine. Thomas has always been a teamplayer, so thry probably gave him 2 options and he picked being a team leader at the Giro.
 
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With Froome I don't see how he's GC ready by the Vuelta. Thomas might have a small chance but then I question his motivation in the first place if he is where he is now before the Tour.

Saying they'll lead those races might just be overstating it to deny how dire the situation is.
 
At this moment Carapaz is probably Ineos strongest GT rider..that is of course if he is ready

I saw where that boy comes from and he doesnt need any motivation. I'd love Carapaz to be in top form as he is about the only rider I think that can beat Rojlic or Dumoulin
It's all about Bernal at the Tour. I'm afraid that guy, Carapaz, will have a destiny of so many other promising riders at Sky. His breakthrough chance was this Giro, but nevertheless...
 
I like Brailsford's reasoning. Froome and Thomas weren't good enough for the Tour so they were cast aside, makes perfect sense to me.

Thomas must feel like he misses his last chance of winning the Tour again but at least gets to lead a Giro that suits him well, although whether he will be able to motivate himself for that goal is a completely different question. (its still far from certain if the Giro will even take place).

Regarding Carapaz, he may lose the chance of Giro leadership but he gets to be in the biggest race of them all and with a protected rider status. This also gives him a chance of riding the Vuelta, a race that suits him really well, with a possible leadership opportunity. (I don't think that Froome will be ready to lead Ineos).

The rest of the team is more or less what was expected, interesting choice of Amador over Tao or Dunbar but I think is the right one considering how valuable he can be as a domestique.
 
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I like Brailsford's reasoning. Froome and Thomas weren't good enough for the Tour so they were cast aside, makes perfect sense to me.

Thomas must feel like he misses his last chance of winning the Tour again but at least gets to lead a Giro that suits him well, although whether he will be able to motivate himself for that goal is a completely different question. (its still far from certain if the Giro will even take place).

Regarding Carapaz, he may lose the chance of Giro leadership but he gets to be in the biggest race of them all and with a protected rider status. This also gives him a chance of riding the Vuelta, a race that suits him really well, with a possible leadership opportunity. (I don't think that Froome will be ready to lead Ineos).

The rest of the team is more or less what was expected, interesting choice of Amador over Tao or Dunbar but I think is the right one considering how valuable he can be as a domestique.
I don't see how Carapaz is gonna be in great shape for the Tour when he target was 5 weeks later.
 
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Seems to me that Ineos would have maximized their chances in the three GTs by having Carapaz lead the Giro, and sending both Froome and Thomas to the Vuelta. Bernal may or may not win the TDF, but I don't think Carapaz will make that much difference in the outcome. From what we saw in the Dauphine, Ineos didn't have a problem getting Bernal to the final climb, he just couldn't stay with Roglic at the end. Another strong dom isn't going to affect that that much.

Carapaz seems to be their best option for the Giro. Sending both Froome and Thomas to the Vuelta doubles the chances that one of them will find better form and contend. If both do, they can be co-leaders, something they've had experience with.
 
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Nah. Bernal is stronger than Carapaz. I don't expect Carapaz to be in good enough shape to compete for the win but Brailsford was right to leave Froome and Thomas at home. It's Bernal or bust for Ineos, I'd say. Sivakov and Carapaz could go top 10, though.
After watching the Dauphine the one conclusion I could draw was Sivakov was tough in the one week event, after some good riders crashed out. We don't know what to expect from Bernal and I haven't heard much about Carapaz. Given Bernal and Carapaz at their peak I'm not sure it's a given which one is the current best for Ineos.
 
Seems to me that Ineos would have maximized their chances in the three GTs by having Carapaz lead the Giro, and sending both Froome and Thomas to the Vuelta. Bernal may or may not win the TDF, but I don't think Carapaz will make that much difference in the outcome. From what we saw in the Dauphine, Ineos didn't have a problem getting Bernal to the final climb, he just couldn't stay with Roglic at the end. Another strong dom isn't going to affect that that much.

Carapaz seems to be their best option for the Giro. Sending both Froome and Thomas to the Vuelta doubles the chances that one of them will find better form and contend. If both do, they can be co-leaders, something they've had experience with.
It's true, but I have never seen Sky/Ineos have a goal of maximizing their chances in three GTs. They, more than any other team, have coldly embodied the realization that the Tour is 90% of the attention and money in cycling, and have thrown everything at it since their inception essentially.

The only times I can remember them even moderately hyping a tilt at a GT other than the tour:

  • Wiggins Vuelta 2011 after he crashed out of the Tour and before they'd really won anything as a team
  • Wiggins Giro 2013 after he had won the Tour and wanted to go for the Giro for a lark, plus it was convenient to avoid the blatant obviousness of Froome being better
  • Porte in the Giro for a few years where he wasn't good enough to win the Tour, but wanted to lead and was good enough to get his own camper van
  • Thomas in the Giro for a couple of years before he had really done anything in GTs and needed a proving ground (which mostly proved he could crash out of races)
  • Froome in the Vuelta because he wanted to eventually complete the set but didn't want to gamble on doing a GT before the Tour without a 5 week window (several times)
  • Bernal in the Giro because they didn't want a leadership controversy (and then he broke his collarbone and they did anyway)
They never really hyped (or, at least in my perception) the GT attempts of the likes of Landa and Henao.

The whole 'Thomas and Froome can focus on the other GTs' is just saving face. They throw all their best power at the Tour, and Jumbo putting together a train that is better than theirs scares them. It doesn't matter if Carapaz wanted to peak for the Giro, they'd rather have him super-dom for Bernal and give Bernal a better chance at not being worked over by TJV than win the Giro with him. Carapaz, Sivakov, and even Castro and Kwiatko are showing better climbing form than Froome and Thomas, so they got picked. I think leadership of the other GTs is an afterthought, and if they choose to spin the focus on that, it is reverse engineering their motivation.
 
It's true, but I have never seen Sky/Ineos have a goal of maximizing their chances in three GTs. They, more than any other team, have coldly embodied the realization that the Tour is 90% of the attention and money in cycling, and have thrown everything at it since their inception essentially.

The only times I can remember them even moderately hyping a tilt at a GT other than the tour:

  • Wiggins Vuelta 2011 after he crashed out of the Tour and before they'd really won anything as a team
  • Wiggins Giro 2013 after he had won the Tour and wanted to go for the Giro for a lark, plus it was convenient to avoid the blatant obviousness of Froome being better
  • Porte in the Giro for a few years where he wasn't good enough to win the Tour, but wanted to lead and was good enough to get his own camper van
  • Thomas in the Giro for a couple of years before he had really done anything in GTs and needed a proving ground (which mostly proved he could crash out of races)
  • Froome in the Vuelta because he wanted to eventually complete the set but didn't want to gamble on doing a GT before the Tour without a 5 week window (several times)
  • Bernal in the Giro because they didn't want a leadership controversy (and then he broke his collarbone and they did anyway)
They never really hyped (or, at least in my perception) the GT attempts of the likes of Landa and Henao.

The whole 'Thomas and Froome can focus on the other GTs' is just saving face. They throw all their best power at the Tour, and Jumbo putting together a train that is better than theirs scares them. It doesn't matter if Carapaz wanted to peak for the Giro, they'd rather have him super-dom for Bernal and give Bernal a better chance at not being worked over by TJV than win the Giro with him. Carapaz, Sivakov, and even Castro and Kwiatko are showing better climbing form than Froome and Thomas, so they got picked. I think leadership of the other GTs is an afterthought, and if they choose to spin the focus on that, it is reverse engineering their motivation.
Largely agree. It's always been all in for the tdf, and they're doing whatever they can do maxmise their change of another win. Everything else follows.
 
It's true, but I have never seen Sky/Ineos have a goal of maximizing their chances in three GTs. They, more than any other team, have coldly embodied the realization that the Tour is 90% of the attention and money in cycling, and have thrown everything at it since their inception essentially.

The only times I can remember them even moderately hyping a tilt at a GT other than the tour:

  • Wiggins Vuelta 2011 after he crashed out of the Tour and before they'd really won anything as a team
  • Wiggins Giro 2013 after he had won the Tour and wanted to go for the Giro for a lark, plus it was convenient to avoid the blatant obviousness of Froome being better
  • Porte in the Giro for a few years where he wasn't good enough to win the Tour, but wanted to lead and was good enough to get his own camper van
  • Thomas in the Giro for a couple of years before he had really done anything in GTs and needed a proving ground (which mostly proved he could crash out of races)
  • Froome in the Vuelta because he wanted to eventually complete the set but didn't want to gamble on doing a GT before the Tour without a 5 week window (several times)
  • Bernal in the Giro because they didn't want a leadership controversy (and then he broke his collarbone and they did anyway)
They never really hyped (or, at least in my perception) the GT attempts of the likes of Landa and Henao.

The whole 'Thomas and Froome can focus on the other GTs' is just saving face. They throw all their best power at the Tour, and Jumbo putting together a train that is better than theirs scares them. It doesn't matter if Carapaz wanted to peak for the Giro, they'd rather have him super-dom for Bernal and give Bernal a better chance at not being worked over by TJV than win the Giro with him. Carapaz, Sivakov, and even Castro and Kwiatko are showing better climbing form than Froome and Thomas, so they got picked. I think leadership of the other GTs is an afterthought, and if they choose to spin the focus on that, it is reverse engineering their motivation.
I basically agree with this. Landa did a lot of his own hyping of his shot at the Giro, but you're right, don't remember Ineos/Sky hyping it. Even when they've hyped a 2nd GT I can't remember them ever hyping all 3. Other teams have.
 
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I have never seen Sky/Ineos have a goal of maximizing their chances in three GTs.
I don't disagree, but that's because most of the time, they haven't had two riders who were good enough to contend in both the Giro and the Tour (very few teams ever do)--except, as you note, when Wiggins rode the Giro, and even then, expectations were low. When both those GTs are in play, the strategy changes. When Froome rode the Giro in 2018, Sky knew that he was reducing his chances of winning the Tour that year, probably by more than not having Carapaz would hurt Bernal's chances this year--but they let him go for the double. If Thomas hadn't come out of nowhere, Froome's Giro would have cost Sky the TDF, but that was a gamble they evidently were willing to take.

The whole 'Thomas and Froome can focus on the other GTs' is just saving face.
Again, I don't disagree at all with this. Maybe Ineos felt they had to give each rider his own GT to save face completely.
 
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Again, I don't disagree at all with this. Maybe Ineos felt they had to give each rider his own GT to save face completely.
Even "give" is a big word here, as I do not believe Froome/Thomas will have sole leadership in Vuelta/Giro unless their shape takes monster leap in coming month. I have very strong feeling Carapaz will ride Giro. And I also believe Bernal will be in Vuelta, depending of course on the outcome of the Tour.
 
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To be fair to Sky/Ineos, their strong historical targeting of the TDF in great preference to the Giro and Vuelta is really no different to any other team that isn't Italian or Spanish. Well, I haven't done much research on this, so I could be wrong, but my perception is that 90% of the time teams/cyclists focus on the TDF. Dumoulin choosing the Giro twice I guess would be an exception.
 
I don't see how Carapaz is gonna be in great shape for the Tour when he target was 5 weeks later.
Brailsford must know more than we do. He'll look silly if Carapaz doesn't have the legs. Or only has the legs in week one when (other) teams can easily control the race.

Could still be that Sivakov is the actual backup plan, but they're not hiding the fact that they're hoping that that guy delivers, either. I'm gonna go ahead and assume that Carapaz is their actual #2.
 
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Nah. Bernal is stronger than Carapaz. I don't expect Carapaz to be in good enough shape to compete for the win but Brailsford was right to leave Froome and Thomas at home. It's Bernal or bust for Ineos, I'd say. Sivakov and Carapaz could go top 10, though.
Pretty much. Sending Carapaz to the Tour is desperation. He is not ready for a podium fight but might make a good superdom for the final week(s). And as Froome and Thomas are both terrible they had to do something to give Bernal at least an accepatable team against Jumbo. They are still weaker though.
 
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