Team Ineos Discussion thread

[mrgmyers]

Personally I am grateful to Brailsford for solving a dilemma for me at the TdF! I wish Bernal luck, in the same manner, I wish all competitors luck. Had the weather not behaved in the manner it did in 2019 I feel certain he would still be chasing his first TdF win in 2020 his look of total bewilderment last year betrayed him. I think this years race will provide spectators with interest.

 

[fuiers]

So I wasn't expecting that. No Birtish rider at all for the Tour de France team, no Geraint and no Froome. The Movistar patended "the three amigos" strategy is no more.

Bold decision and I respect that. Froome and Thomas both did not look to be in good form for TDF. Now they can focus on other races and getting in shape.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

its clearly a decision made on form, not out of a tactical preference. Froome and Thomas aren’t in shape. If you aren’t in shape, you don’t ride the Tour for Ineos, whether as leader or anything else.

We all know why Froome isn’t in Tour shape. The interesting part is Thomas. Why did he botch his condition?

 

[Mayomaniac]

I'll actually cheer for their gc riders over Jumbo. Not over Pinot and Landa, but I like both Bernal and Carapaz.

 

[CTQ]

its clearly a decision made on form, not out of a tactical preference. Froome and Thomas aren’t in shape. If you aren’t in shape, you don’t ride the Tour for Ineos, whether as leader or anything else.

We all know why Froome isn’t in Tour shape. The interesting part is Thomas. Why did he botch his condition?

becoming a father perharps...

 

[Red Rick]

its clearly a decision made on form, not out of a tactical preference. Froome and Thomas aren’t in shape. If you aren’t in shape, you don’t ride the Tour for Ineos, whether as leader or anything else.

We all know why Froome isn’t in Tour shape. The interesting part is Thomas. Why did he botch his condition?

I think Thomas has a little bit of Andy Schleck in that he lost motivation after winning the Tour. That hurts especially when you're not close to competitive in GT GC at 90-95%.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

I think Thomas has a little bit of Andy Schleck in that he lost motivation after winning the Tour. That hurts especially when you're not close to competitive in GT GC at 90-95%.

I don’t expect Thomas to ever reach his 2018 Tour form again for basically that reason. He’s just not insane enough to live the way that requires. But he made the podium last year despite not reaching his 2018 form. The surprising part isn’t that he doesn’t have the motivation to hit 2018 shape, it’s that he hasn’t got even close to the shape he reached in 2019, a year when he turned up at the start of the season with seven months of celebrating still visible around his torso.

 

[Red Rick]

I don’t expect Thomas to ever reach his 2018 Tour form again for basically that reason. He’s just not insane enough to live the way that requires. But he made the podium last year despite not reaching his 2018 form. The surprising part isn’t that he doesn’t have the motivation to hit 2018 shape, it’s that he hasn’t got even close to the shape he reached in 2019, a year when he turned up at the start of the season with seven months of celebrating still visible around his torso.

I'd say 2019 was a much weaker Tour though. Imo 2019 Thomas doesn't get a podium in 2018. Very lucky with Pinot injury. Dumoulin and Roglic weren't there. Tourmalet was ridden exceptionally passively.

 

[Anderis]

I don't understand Ineos's reasoning here. Carapaz looks more likely to win the Giro than Thomas at this point, so it seems Ineos is gambling that Carapaz will make the difference between Bernal's winning the Tour and not. Maybe exclusively as a dom, maybe as another card to play, maybe as a backup if Bernal falters. Gambling away a Giro win, IMO, just to improve their chances of a Tour win.

I think it's just the Tour is much more important than the Giro and Ineos don't want to leave TdF empty-handed. They've got unsettled by how bad Froome and Thomas were and how strong Jumbo were in recent weeks and how their team looks nowhere near as strong as they expected. They feel vulnerable, exacerbated by the fact that Bernal was not really 100% during the Dauphine. I don't think they intend Carapaz to just be support for Bernal. Backup plan at the very least if not a co-leader who might realistically end up their main leader.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

I'd say 2019 was a much weaker Tour though. Imo 2019 Thomas doesn't get a podium in 2018. Very lucky with Pinot injury. Dumoulin and Roglic weren't there. Tourmalet was ridden exceptionally passively.

I agree, Thomas 2019 doesn’t get a podium in 2018 or 2020. But Thomas 2019 was still miles above Thomas 2020.

 

[Escarabajo]

More likely that none win their GT.

I don't understand Ineos's reasoning here. Carapaz looks more likely to win the Giro than Thomas at this point, so it seems Ineos is gambling that Carapaz will make the difference between Bernal's winning the Tour and not. Maybe exclusively as a dom, maybe as another card to play, maybe as a backup if Bernal falters. Gambling away a Giro win, IMO, just to improve their chances of a Tour win.

If the team really thought Thomas and Froome were good enough to win another GT, why in the world wouldn't they want their support in the Tour, extra cards to play, backup for Bernal's back? Either one could go on to the other GTs, anyway, if all they did in the Tour was dom duty.

It is all about the Tour TBH.

 

[Escarabajo]

Perfectly understandable decision.

Carapaz is a wildcard. Especially with that first week.

 

[Salvarani]

I dont like this team, but the decision makes perfect sense. I got nothing to say about it.

 

[Mayomaniac]

I'd say 2019 was a much weaker Tour though. Imo 2019 Thomas doesn't get a podium in 2018. Very lucky with Pinot injury. Dumoulin and Roglic weren't there. Tourmalet was ridden exceptionally passively.

2019 had an Ullrich Winter, was overweight and still finished 12th in Strade Bianche. He was bad in nearly all the prep races, crashed out of the Tour de Suisse and still finished 2nd.

 

[shalgo]

What a massive FU from Ineos to Carapaz. If only he had been riding like crap, getting dropped early on every climb—like Thomas and Froome—then he would have been granted leadership at a GT.
The only saving grace for him is that he has already shown himself capable of winning a GT when he is his team’s second option.

 

[pink_jersey]

What a massive FU from Ineos to Carapaz. If only he had been riding like crap, getting dropped early on every climb—like Thomas and Froome—then he would have been granted leadership at a GT.
The only saving grace for him is that he has already shown himself capable of winning a GT when he is his team’s second option.

It's not a FU actually. They really rate him. Froome and Thomas will not lead the Giro/Vuelta. It's just paper talk. Their form is too bad for that but Dave needed to give them some encouragment to not unsettle the harmony in the team.

And no, Sky will not win any GT this year.
Bernal and Carapaz aren't at their best right now, and Thomas/Froome don't have any chances in Giro/Vuelta.
Bernal already said that he will only ride TdF, so their best chance for a GT success this year is Carapaz if he rides the Vuelta.

 

[samhocking]

I'm pretty sure if Carapaz has the legs over Bernal or finds himself leading on GC, he will be the supported rider until that changes, that's always been how Ineos roll. They don't seem to care who wins in the team or operate on emotional reasoning anyway.

Although I thought it was mostly a bluff, for Thomas, Brailsford saying they won't race in the way we are used to I think suggests a much more latin style of racing to tackle Jumbo's diesel train. It's pretty clear Jumbo have the superior mountain train, so trying to fight that with Colombian riders they have in form wouldn't work, so I sense Ineos are looking to race more like the Movistar you hoped would happen each year, but without the politics and Valverde polemics hopefully.

 

[shalgo]

Yes, I was probably overreacting. If Carapaz is genuinely treated as a second option rather than as the last helper in the Ineos train, then this could work out well for him. Still the optics of it are bad, with the Twitter video interview of only Bernal, Thomas, and Froome as the three GT leaders.

 

[johnymax]

I think Carapaz should and I think will be treated as plan 1B. He is a GT winner in a strong field. He has shown he can climb with the best and has great recovery over the three weeks of a GT. Now he has the chance to show his victory wasn't "a fluke".

I think he'll do very well. Will it be enough for the podium or even a win? I don't know but he won't get understimated again by his rivals, that's for sure.

 

[johnymax]

It's funny now when you think about how both Froome and Thomas lied to the public about their form in recent preparation races. They were always saying in interviews how their form is where it's supposed to be, how they are on the right way, how they just need a couple of racing days to get going, to get into a rhythm.

I believed them at first but qickly became sceptical even though every time Froome got dropped, he was smiling at the camera with his thumb up or talking with Castrovijejo lol... I knew something fishy is going to happen.

 

[Ted Striker]

its clearly a decision made on form, not out of a tactical preference. Froome and Thomas aren’t in shape. If you aren’t in shape, you don’t ride the Tour for Ineos, whether as leader or anything else.

We all know why Froome isn’t in Tour shape. The interesting part is Thomas. Why did he botch his condition?

totally agree, Froome out of form isn't a shock, the form Thomas is in is rather alarming

 

[bambino]

Yes, I was probably overreacting. If Carapaz is genuinely treated as a second option rather than as the last helper in the Ineos train, then this could work out well for him. Still the optics of it are bad, with the Twitter video interview of only Bernal, Thomas, and Froome as the three GT leaders.

Another option is that Froome/Thomas are just so bad this whole Giro/Vuelta leadership are optics. Carapaz selection to Tour could also be just to slowly ride himself into shape for Giro and at the same time help Bernal (if needed) on the 3rd week of Tour (when reaching closer to peak for Giro). Carapaz himself hasn't been in enourmous shape so far, so it could be they use Tour for him as training.

And then Bernal to Vuelta with Froomie.

These options could actually be the best ones for them to win at least 1 GT. Of course at the same time acknowleding Thomas/Froome not being the ones winning it.

 

[Bolder]

More likely that none win their GT.

I don't understand Ineos's reasoning here. Carapaz looks more likely to win the Giro than Thomas at this point, so it seems Ineos is gambling that Carapaz will make the difference between Bernal's winning the Tour and not. Maybe exclusively as a dom, maybe as another card to play, maybe as a backup if Bernal falters. Gambling away a Giro win, IMO, just to improve their chances of a Tour win.

If the team really thought Thomas and Froome were good enough to win another GT, why in the world wouldn't they want their support in the Tour, extra cards to play, backup for Bernal's back? Either one could go on to the other GTs, anyway, if all they did in the Tour was dom duty.

I was thinking the same thing. Why not just tell Froome/GT that they'll be riding as super-doms for Bernal, just as SK or TD is riding for Roglic? Carapaz is young, less experienced and his form is unknown. The only answer is that Froome is so far away from where he needs to be that the Vuelta is his only GT chance this year (which of course is what Ineos said -- so it's likely correct...).

Thomas has been a bit of an enigma this year. I think at his age all the cards had to align for him to peak for the Tour in July...and the lockdowns threw him off his game, physically and mentally.

If Carapaz is as good as he was in the Giro, he'll be a huge help to Bernal, and might even be a podium option. He did beat Roglic, after all...

 

[Mayomaniac]

I was thinking the same thing. Why not just tell Froome/GT that they'll be riding as super-doms for Bernal, just as SK or TD is riding for Roglic? Carapaz is young, less experienced and his form is unknown. The only answer is that Froome is so far away from where he needs to be that the Vuelta is his only GT chance this year (which of course is what Ineos said -- so it's likely correct...).

Thomas has been a bit of an enigma this year. I think at his age all the cards had to align for him to peak for the Tour in July...and the lockdowns threw him off his game, physically and mentally.

If Carapaz is as good as he was in the Giro, he'll be a huge help to Bernal, and might even be a podium option. He did beat Roglic, after all...

I guess that was the plan for Froome, he was decent in the Tour de l'Ain, but went backwards in the Dauphine. Thomas has always been a teamplayer, so thry probably gave him 2 options and he picked being a team leader at the Giro.

 

[Red Rick]

With Froome I don't see how he's GC ready by the Vuelta. Thomas might have a small chance but then I question his motivation in the first place if he is where he is now before the Tour.

Saying they'll lead those races might just be overstating it to deny how dire the situation is.