• The Cycling News forum is looking to add some volunteer moderators with Red Rick's recent retirement. If you're interested in helping keep our discussions on track, send a direct message to @SHaines here on the forum, or use the Contact Us form to message the Community Team.

    In the meanwhile, please use the Report option if you see a post that doesn't fit within the forum rules.

    Thanks!

Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

Page 1084 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
Oct 16, 2010
19,912
2
0
Visit site
hfer07 said:
...Now "G" and Eisel out of tomorrow's DDV .......

hmmmm....

crackpot theory:
are sky being tipped off on when and where the new AICAR tests are being carried out?

sniper said:
in december 2013 a german lab made a bit of a breakthrough in testing for AICAR.
perhaps a stretch, but could it be that they've just started testing for aicar?

edit: lol, great minds think alike:cool:
 
Apr 10, 2011
4,818
0
0
Visit site
I wonder how much time do the people wasted together here hypothesising things completely meaningless in their lifes around the clinic lol :D

( and yes i too wasted unfortunately 10 seconds off my life writing this post here... not much more luckily! )
 
Oct 16, 2010
19,912
2
0
Visit site
anyway,
- people have been tipped off before in cycling, you won't deny that.
- cookson has his son working for sky, you won't deny that either.
so why discard the option? (honest question)
it could be related to aicar or to something else.
 
red_flanders said:
It's well established that teams have been tipped off by testing agencies/UCI before, so I'd stop well short of calling it "crackpot".

"Unfounded" might be a lot more accurate. But I guess that's not insulting enough?

We also know there's testing to never test positive, sports federations scheduling the arrival of athletes to never test positive.

I'm quite surprised the Sky program was going full-speed this time the last three(?) years crushing any stage racing rivals. Seems legit.
 
Sep 29, 2012
12,197
0
0
dearwiggo.blogspot.com.au
More Strides than Rides said:
My teammate is 5'7". One week before a major championship, he (said) he lost 20 pounds from 160 to 140. He was pretty chubby before, and may have just been rounding off, but still, even 15 pounds is a significant drop.

In a week that's water weight and some fat. Jockeys, boxers, MMA fighters, etc do similar sorts of things all the time. 5 kg in 2 days, etc.

Wiggo did not have 13 kg of fat to lose from an 82kg body. He lost muscle. You can't decide which part of your body loses muscle.
 
Apr 15, 2013
483
0
0
Visit site
Dear Wiggo said:
Wiggo did not have 13 kg of fat to lose from an 82kg body. He lost muscle. You can't decide which part of your body loses muscle.

You are correct on both counts and I fear also potentially in your conclusion. However, in order to put both sides of the argument across, it is possible to lose a lot of weight across all body parts, then bulk up one area specifically. Thereby, making it theoretically possible to lose weight without losing leg power.
 
Sep 29, 2012
12,197
0
0
dearwiggo.blogspot.com.au
CycloAndy said:
You are correct on both counts and I fear also potentially in your conclusion. However, in order to put both sides of the argument across, it is possible to lose a lot of weight across all body parts, then bulk up one area specifically. Thereby, making it theoretically possible to lose weight without losing leg power.

"bulk up one area specifically" whilst training for the Tour de France via endurance training (5-6 hours / day) clean? For a rider who has ridden on the road for a good number of years already?

I'd like to see the physiological process behind that.

All that possibility aside, it pales into insignificance, for me, when you consider Brailsford held out no hope his boy Wiggo was going to be winning the Tour any time soon er... ever.

Finally, people who go quicker than Wiggo in a pursuit who weigh less, or similar, should be smashing the Tour any time soon, right? Just need to lose a bit of weight...
 
Apr 15, 2013
483
0
0
Visit site
Dear Wiggo said:
"bulk up one area specifically" whilst training for the Tour de France via endurance training (5-6 hours / day) clean? For a rider who has ridden on the road for a good number of years already?

I'd like to see the physiological process behind that.

It is also of course possible, and perhaps more sensible, to do it the other way round. Over-bulk one area (I.e the legs), then lose a lot of weight including on the legs. Which would still leave a high power to weight ratio.
 
CycloAndy said:
It is also of course possible, and perhaps more sensible, to do it the other way round. Over-bulk one area (I.e the legs), then lose a lot of weight including on the legs. Which would still leave a high power to weight ratio.

I'm fairly sure this is technically what every cyclist ever has done, maybe Forstermann will start challenging Froome next year?
 
Sep 29, 2012
12,197
0
0
dearwiggo.blogspot.com.au
CycloAndy said:
It is also of course possible, and perhaps more sensible, to do it the other way round. Over-bulk one area (I.e the legs), then lose a lot of weight including on the legs. Which would still leave a high power to weight ratio.

Over bulk one area while riding 5-6 hours / day?

Still not getting it. Could you draw me a picture? ;)
 
Apr 15, 2013
483
0
0
Visit site
King Boonen said:
I'm fairly sure this is technically what every cyclist ever has done, maybe Forstermann will start challenging Froome next year?

Depends on the level they do it to though. Wiggo pre-2012 tour and Froome pre-2013 Tour were, by all accounts, visibly more anorexic in the upper body department than 99% of riders. Wiggo 2014 = visibly fatter and less capable. Probably because the dedication it takes to get that level of weight loss (with or without doping) is immense. Which is why Forstermann and even more plausible riders won't all be capable/willing to do it.
 
CycloAndy said:
Depends on the level they do it to though. Wiggo pre-2012 tour and Froome pre-2013 Tour were, by all accounts, visibly more anorexic in the upper body department than 99% of riders. Wiggo 2014 = visibly fatter and less capable. Probably because the dedication it takes to get that level of weight loss (with or without doping) is immense. Which is why Forstermann and even more plausible riders won't all be capable/willing to do it.

What year is this? We're back to "determination" being the deciding factor in a grand tour podium. Those other 10 guys behind Sky weren't determined.
 
Sep 29, 2012
12,197
0
0
dearwiggo.blogspot.com.au
CycloAndy said:
Depends on the level they do it to though. Wiggo pre-2012 tour and Froome pre-2013 Tour were, by all accounts, visibly more anorexic in the upper body department than 99% of riders.

200 riders at the Tour means they were the skinniest of all bar one?

"All accounts" seems rather nebulous? Do you have anything a little more concrete?

In the old days they used to photograph riders on medical type beds as they were given a pre-Tour medical, with their HR and weight etc noted. They all looked as upper body anorexic as each other. "Anorexic upper body" is not a trait I believe Sky can claim as their own, sorry.
 
Apr 15, 2013
483
0
0
Visit site
DirtyWorks said:
What year is this? We're back to "determination" being the deciding factor in a grand tour podium. Those other 10 guys behind Sky weren't determined.

Determination combined with an equally bossy wife/partner willing to act as a food slapper could be a useful advantage! Forgot that the obvious loss of Wiggins' determination coincided with significant weight gain.

P.s. I am largely in agreement that there is a strong likelihood of doping involvement but fed up of every aspect of Sky's performance being used as an indicator of doping. Often in a contradictory manner, whilst the equally likely doping of other teams is ignored.

It is reminiscent of a poll on best riders, whereby Pantani was included numerous times without comment then some poor guy was shot down on doping grounds for saying Armstrong!
 
Apr 15, 2013
483
0
0
Visit site
Dear Wiggo said:
200 riders at the Tour means they were the skinniest of all bar one?

"All accounts" seems rather nebulous? Do you have anything a little more concrete?

In the old days they used to photograph riders on medical type beds as they were given a pre-Tour medical, with their HR and weight etc noted. They all looked as upper body anorexic as each other. "Anorexic upper body" is not a trait I believe Sky can claim as their own, sorry.

By all accounts, being a generalisation of course, but if you use comments from the 'Sky dope' forum members and the rest of the forum members, most would agree that Froome is pretty much the most anorexic rider in the WT.
 
CycloAndy said:
... Which would still leave a high power to weight ratio.

bolded is the crux of the issue...underlined even more so.

There was not only an increase in power to weight ration (for climbing), there was also an increase in total power (for winning all those ITTs).

Gentle(wo)men, the topic of Wiggos weight has been exhaustively analysed at least three times since 2012....and it will NOT be done yet again in this thread. If you are new to the clinic, or just venturing into this topic, and want to know more do some research using the "search" feature and read up about it on several Sky threads, Wiggo, Wiggo Cadence, and probably a few others like Climbing.

As I warned last night, continuing the discussion of weight loss and power, especially using non-elite "athletes" as a yardstick, is skating on very thin ice for trolling and/or derailling.

Move on.

cheers
bison
 
Updates on how/why ASO benefitted from Sky/BC winning the TdF.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/aso-set-to-sign-deal-for-new-yorkshire-race That's a 2HC classification for a race that's never been run.

27 million pound budget claimed for the 2014 TdF stages: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-26679085

A year ago, the budget was claimed to be 21 million. http://road.cc/content/news/89262-g...contribution-2014-tour-de-france-grand-départ

Let's check on Corsica's grand depart:
http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/raci...sica-approves-2013-tour-de-france-start-55634

2 million euro budget to host the event. My wild guess was that number is more like 4 million. In the same article Corsica also pays to host Criterium International for a few years. And now? Criterium International may be the name of the Yorkshire event.
 
Aug 13, 2009
12,855
1
0
Visit site
DirtyWorks said:
Updates on how/why ASO benefitted from Sky/BC winning the TdF.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/aso-set-to-sign-deal-for-new-yorkshire-race That's a 2HC classification for a race that's never been run.

27 million pound budget claimed for the 2014 TdF stages: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-26679085

A year ago, the budget was claimed to be 21 million. http://road.cc/content/news/89262-g...contribution-2014-tour-de-france-grand-départ

Let's check on Corsica's grand depart:
http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/raci...sica-approves-2013-tour-de-france-start-55634

2 million euro budget to host the event. My wild guess was that number is more like 4 million. In the same article Corsica also pays to host Criterium International for a few years. And now? Criterium International may be the name of the Yorkshire event.

Good post. Very interesting. Wonderboy 2.0.
 

Justinr

BANNED
Feb 18, 2013
806
0
0
Visit site
DirtyWorks said:
Updates on how/why ASO benefitted from Sky/BC winning the TdF.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/aso-set-to-sign-deal-for-new-yorkshire-race That's a 2HC classification for a race that's never been run.

27 million pound budget claimed for the 2014 TdF stages: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-26679085

A year ago, the budget was claimed to be 21 million. http://road.cc/content/news/89262-g...contribution-2014-tour-de-france-grand-départ

Let's check on Corsica's grand depart:
http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/raci...sica-approves-2013-tour-de-france-start-55634

2 million euro budget to host the event. My wild guess was that number is more like 4 million. In the same article Corsica also pays to host Criterium International for a few years. And now? Criterium International may be the name of the Yorkshire event.

I'm not quite sure what you are saying here. Is it that the ASO have profited from a UK start due to a big(ger) budget being paid to them? And that we only have that UK start because of Sky winning in 2012?

And if so you're going to do what - link it to Sky and use it as more 'evidence' that they are doping???
 
DirtyWorks said:
Updates on how/why ASO benefitted from Sky/BC winning the TdF.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/aso-set-to-sign-deal-for-new-yorkshire-race That's a 2HC classification for a race that's never been run.

27 million pound budget claimed for the 2014 TdF stages: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-26679085

A year ago, the budget was claimed to be 21 million. http://road.cc/content/news/89262-g...contribution-2014-tour-de-france-grand-départ

Let's check on Corsica's grand depart:
http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/raci...sica-approves-2013-tour-de-france-start-55634

2 million euro budget to host the event. My wild guess was that number is more like 4 million. In the same article Corsica also pays to host Criterium International for a few years. And now? Criterium International may be the name of the Yorkshire event.


That is a good post. Reading all that I feel sorry for Wiggo. Not only did he dope to win but tegu structured an entire race so he would win. And not because he's a good honest winner but because it afforded people and large companies and bloody big slice of pie.
 

TRENDING THREADS