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Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

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Jul 17, 2012
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DirtyWorks said:
You are missing the point. It's not about viewers, it's about passing money from public to private hands. It's the Olympics model.

Let's imagine Corsica's entire budget was never fully disclosed and let's triple it to 6 million Euro for three stages. Let's imagine the British numbers are overstated and call it 20 million pounds. You are telling me 14 million pounds are for airfare?

I call it picking winners, you call it stage management. My world view is probably too pessimistic. In principal I think we agree.

I can see your logic here but it still glosses over the fact that the UK bids to host the Grand Depart this year pre-dated Wiggo's success by some time. The ASO and the local councils in Yorkshire may well have been in cahoots, but it's hard to see how Sky and British Cycling might fit in per one of your previous posts, since BC supported the losing bid!

The council in York is very cycling friendly, so it may be that one of their Big Cheeses has influenced things. Someone has persuaded the council to shell out on a superb permanent crit circuit (with the world's best tarmac) and an outdoor velodrome is being built this summer.

The justification for public money being used to fund the bid is that all manner of folk from outside Yorkshire will come up for the weekend, spend a fortune on food, beer and accommodation and thus benefit many local businesses. There doesn't seem to be too much complaint in the York area at least.
 
Mar 28, 2014
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proffate said:
because the French NADO is more serious about doing its job

So you are saying that french riders are cleaner than the rest because the nat anti doping agency forces them to be?

And ASO picked a british rider because better chances not being caught, even if it's less money for them?
 
JohnDev said:
So you are saying that french riders are cleaner than the rest because the nat anti doping agency forces them to be?

And ASO picked a british rider because better chances not being caught, even if it's less money for them?

Yes, I am saying the French are cleaner. Clearly the NADO dictates the cleanliness of its athletes to some extent: see Jamaican track + field.

As for economics, Britain is also a bigger untapped market; France cycling fandom is closer to saturation.
 

Justinr

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Feb 18, 2013
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proffate said:
Yes, I am saying the French are cleaner. Clearly the NADO dictates the cleanliness of its athletes to some extent: see Jamaican track + field.

As for economics, Britain is also a bigger untapped market; France cycling fandom is closer to saturation.

The French federation did implement longitudinal testing of French (or French based - not sure) riders long before anyone else (after Festina?).

Agree with the Fandom comment.

I'm not sure it all adds up to a certain country being cleaner/dirtier than another.
 
proffate said:
because the French NADO is more serious about doing its job

ASO basically owns France's largest cycling events. That's not a growth market for them.

Also, the French federation does not run it's own pro team. BC is simultaneously responsible for SKy's success and enforcing anti-doping rules as was USPS and USA Cycling. It's anti-doping controversy management. An anti-doping authority is not required to open positive cases.

The FCF is working it's way to replicating the Sky/BC formula, so give it some time.

Don't think about the sport from a race podium perspective, but as expanding race production revenue.
 
May 26, 2010
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DirtyWorks said:
There are stronger national regulations regarding doping in France. As posted, France is not considered a growth market unlike the UK and South Africa.

Also, the French federation does not run it's own pro team. BC is simultaneously responsible for SKy's success and enforcing anti-doping rules as was USPS and USA Cycling. It's anti-doping controversy management. An anti-doping authority is not required to open positive cases.

The FCF is working it's way to replicating the Sky/BC formula, so give it some time.

The French need someone from their former Colonies who can ride as French but generate enough interest for a new market. Hesjedal :rolleyes:
 
Benotti69 said:
The French need someone from their former Colonies who can ride as French but generate enough interest for a new market. Hesjedal :rolleyes:

Lots of former French colonies in Africa. Developing competitive cycling in Africa is a real project for the UCI and has been for a number of years now.

MTN-Qhubeka (sp) being considered a result of their development efforts. Which, the UCI earns some revenue from.

The ASO would earn some revenue selling broadcast licenses to regional media properties with a regional/national athlete becoming a podium contender. ASO would also earn revenue producing the media feed for the inevitable 2.1 African (it's a big place!) race that would pop up on the calendar. Maybe a grand depart!!!

Everybody that matters wins. Note well, the athletes aren't actually the big winners.


Again, don't think about the sport from a race podium perspective, but as expanding race production revenue. ASO has done that in the U.S. producing the Tour of California event.
 
May 26, 2009
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Benotti69 said:
The French need someone from their former Colonies who can ride as French but generate enough interest for a new market. Hesjedal :rolleyes:

France had African colonies, right? The French can 'find' a guy who looks awful on a bike sucks for years then use the 'badzilla' tale too.
 
BYOP88 said:
France had African colonies, right? The French can 'find' a guy who looks awful on a bike sucks for years then use the 'badzilla' tale too.

Reza. When I saw him drilling alone on the mountains and the peloton with all the big names chasing I couldn't help but think of a SA guy named Froome from Barloworld in TdF 2008. A nobody turned into a great GT winner. Maybe Reza's future will be the same. He's only 25.
 
Sep 29, 2012
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Wallace and Gromit said:
I think the 82kg quoted for Wiggo is when he was at his fattest post Beijing, though 82kg is not exactly excessive for a guy his height. A racing weight of 77/78kg with a body fat of high single digits seems more likely. Then to get to 69kg, he'd need to lose around 5kg of upper body muscle and 3kg via a reduction in bodyfat% to the low single digits which isn't that unreasonable, though again, I'm not asserting that this is what actually happened.

Yep heard it all before, he was at his fattest, and all the other explanations that desperately attempt to explain a 13kg weight loss.

Boring.
 
Sep 29, 2012
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proffate said:
I'd assume slimming down affects anaerobic power more than aerobic capacity so it makes more sense to slim down for longer climbs. That said, Wiggins still crushed prologues at minimal weight which doesn't add up.

And participated in a team pursuit that won a world cup.
 
Mar 12, 2010
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Justinr said:
Technically most of those didn't have a known history when they were hired. When their history came out they were fired.

But you're right they did put themselves up above the rest - they still believe that but of course life is never that simple. Could you (or anyone) get away with saying that you'd only be friends with people who hadn't broken the law?

Technically their history was known.

Who fired them, Brailsford and the team, or BskyB Execs? ;)
 
Mar 11, 2009
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Wallace and Gromit said:
I can see your logic here but it still glosses over the fact that the UK bids to host the Grand Depart this year pre-dated Wiggo's success by some time. The ASO and the local councils in Yorkshire may well have been in cahoots, but it's hard to see how Sky and British Cycling might fit in per one of your previous posts, since BC supported the losing


I don't know about that. The announcement was made dec 2012.
Sky and all the hoopla re british cycling was well under way.

PlusGermany had pulled the plug on their money which was the real impetus behind aso looking so hard for new markets...
 
Justinr said:
Technically most of those didn't have a known history when they were hired. When their history came out they were fired.

Now you are making stuff up. Leinders was Rassmussen's doctor. Maybe you don't remember the guy that was kicked out of the Tour de France as the GC leader, yet never tested positive.

It was published on the Internets for a below average Google search. Of course, then you have to ask why the *@#$ Brailsford would NOT know about Leinders since cycling is a very VERY small group of people who seem to know each other.

I'm through with you fighting the truth with every post possible.
 
Jul 17, 2012
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Dear Wiggo said:
Yep heard it all before, he was at his fattest, and all the other explanations that desperately attempt to explain a 13kg weight loss.

Boring.

You've not actually addressed the issue here which is whether a loss of upper body muscle is possible without compromising the power the lower body can deliver.

You say not. I say it is. I provided an explanation. This may be a poor explanation but it's better than simply saying "boring". Up your game, man!
 
Feb 22, 2014
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DirtyWorks said:
Now you are making stuff up. Leinders was Rassmussen's doctor. Maybe you don't remember the guy that was kicked out of the Tour de France as the GC leader, yet never tested positive.

It was published on the Internets for a below average Google search. Of course, then you have to ask why the *@#$ Brailsford would NOT know about Leinders since cycling is a very VERY small group of people who seem to know each other.

I'm through with you fighting the truth with every post possible.

It's my recollection that Sky actually employed Leinders in public: not what people normally mean when they talk of transparency :)

How do you know the truth is the conspiracy, not the ****-up?
 

Justinr

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Feb 18, 2013
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Wallace and Gromit said:
You've not actually addressed the issue here which is whether a loss of upper body muscle is possible without compromising the power the lower body can deliver.

You say not. I say it is. I provided an explanation. This may be a poor explanation but it's better than simply saying "boring". Up your game, man!


I thought the mods had tokd us to stay off the weight issue...
 
Ventoux Boar said:
It's my recollection that Sky actually employed Leinders in public: not what people normally mean when they talk of transparency :)

Is that why it took Brailsford months to finally admit yes Leinders did work for Sky?

Is that why Sky's website listed every single member of staff minus Leinders?

When you hide something...guess what...it's because you have something to hide
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Ventoux Boar said:
It's my recollection that Sky actually employed Leinders in public: not what people normally mean when they talk of transparency :)

How do you know the truth is the conspiracy, not the ****-up?
cut the conspiracy strawman. U,r the only one seeing/talking conspiracies.
 
GuyIncognito said:
Is that why it took Brailsford months to finally admit yes Leinders did work for Sky?

Is that why Sky's website listed every single member of staff minus Leinders?

When you hide something...guess what...it's because you have something to hide
The problem is that is not actually true at all.

Here he is in a report on the Sky website issuing statements: http://www.teamsky.com/article/0,27290,22762_7122061,00.html

One of many mentions on their website.

There are photos of him at races in Sky branded kit.

Just because they didn't come and tell you personally, it doesn't mean they where hiding.
 

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