I know Dowsett didn't get along well with Sciandri or Brailsford and I don't know why but given he went to Livestrong and then left Sky for Movistar I'm not sure it has something to do with ethics.sniper said:
Nevertheless Sciandri is a key and very influential character in the rise of UKC road cycling.
There are many stories about him as a rider. He was detained by the French police with 2 other FDJ riders after Mentheour confessed his doping. He was caught in the San Remo blitz with medicine (cafeine? insuline?) etc...
What kind of influence did he have ? As Tyggart said recently : "When you've doped in the past with success, particularly as a doctor, team owner and coach, director, and you've never been exposed, the likelihood that you are going to continue that practice of doping and not getting caught is huge."
Regarding Linda Mc Cartney, Clark, the team owner, and Dicanio, an US rider said some riders were doping.
In 2012 UKAD took the case to investigate it thoroughly. Not surprisingly nothing has come out since
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The weight thing is a weird argument to watch. At the same time that you say a poster's experience is not the same as an elite cyclist, there are assumptions being made about what a pro cyclist can and cannot do at a given weight.
The above poster was not elite, but I'll speak about myself and an old teammate. I'm 6'4, 151 lbs (193cm, 68-69kg.) as of Monday. Not an international elite, but I have won some major races, and taken some high caliber scalps. I run 110-115 miles per week, and have been under 155 since September (under 153 since January)
My teammate is 5'7". One week before a major championship, he (said) he lost 20 pounds from 160 to 140. He was pretty chubby before, and may have just been rounding off, but still, even 15 pounds is a significant drop. Went on to win that championship, and two weeks later finish runner up in another major 10k (no knock after the loss). He races at 138, and had this is some blood data two weeks old:
Name Wt0 VO2max0 Hb0 Hct0
******* 65.6 72.4 15.7 44.1
Runner's can't measure power the same way cyclists can, but anecdotally, we're both getting it done. No injuries, no drop-off in results or training because of low weight, and no dope (I can only speak for myself of course, but will hold my hand to the fire for my teammate).
I brought up a lot of info, but my point is, the assumption about a "loss of power with weight" is one of those things that is brought up too often, but is a falsehood. There may even be scientific backing, but what happens in outside the lab is what is more important, and in my eyes, it is very possible for athletes to manage low weight, high performance, in a clean way.
The above poster was not elite, but I'll speak about myself and an old teammate. I'm 6'4, 151 lbs (193cm, 68-69kg.) as of Monday. Not an international elite, but I have won some major races, and taken some high caliber scalps. I run 110-115 miles per week, and have been under 155 since September (under 153 since January)
My teammate is 5'7". One week before a major championship, he (said) he lost 20 pounds from 160 to 140. He was pretty chubby before, and may have just been rounding off, but still, even 15 pounds is a significant drop. Went on to win that championship, and two weeks later finish runner up in another major 10k (no knock after the loss). He races at 138, and had this is some blood data two weeks old:
Name Wt0 VO2max0 Hb0 Hct0
******* 65.6 72.4 15.7 44.1
Runner's can't measure power the same way cyclists can, but anecdotally, we're both getting it done. No injuries, no drop-off in results or training because of low weight, and no dope (I can only speak for myself of course, but will hold my hand to the fire for my teammate).
I brought up a lot of info, but my point is, the assumption about a "loss of power with weight" is one of those things that is brought up too often, but is a falsehood. There may even be scientific backing, but what happens in outside the lab is what is more important, and in my eyes, it is very possible for athletes to manage low weight, high performance, in a clean way.
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I am not sure what is the point of bringing up a middle distance runner who was 170/72 before.
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This isn't about dropping weight and maintaining power though, it is about dropping weight and increasing power, I believe significantly, while already at a low body fat percentage (although this might be anecdotal I think it's a fairly safe assumption). If your friend dropped 20 pounds in a week he certainly wasn't in the same shape as cyclists are mid-season.
And we are talking about world class athletes making significant gains in short periods of time.
Once they have done this they then perform over three weeks, at the top of their ability on the most demanding stages and go on to beat specialists in a discipline who have not had to work as hard over the three weeks.
The more I think about it the less believable it becomes.
A hypothetical question. Could your friend have run a 10k every day for for three weeks (with a couple of rest days) at close to championship pace on most days and championship pace one the remaining, then beat 800m specialists over 800m at the end of it?
And we are talking about world class athletes making significant gains in short periods of time.
Once they have done this they then perform over three weeks, at the top of their ability on the most demanding stages and go on to beat specialists in a discipline who have not had to work as hard over the three weeks.
The more I think about it the less believable it becomes.
A hypothetical question. Could your friend have run a 10k every day for for three weeks (with a couple of rest days) at close to championship pace on most days and championship pace one the remaining, then beat 800m specialists over 800m at the end of it?
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It's not even an assumption. Boyer put Wiggins's body fat close to 5% at Cofidis, when he weighed around 77 kilos. In 2009 Wiggins himself said he was at 5% and 72 kilos, but that he could only hold that weight for a short time because it was unhealthy. Even assuming Boyer was exaggerating and that Wiggins's body fat was above 5%, according to Boyer he can't have been fat by cycling standards, so that would put him at, what, 8%, tops? And of course by 2012 he was supposedly down to 69 kilos and seemingly holding the same body fat percentage for like the whole season.King Boonen said:
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BYOP88 said:
So with Thomas out, is anybody still in the running to ride all 4 races?
Putting the usual scornful remarks aside, it was surprising that he was able to ride MSR at all, given his nasty crash in PN.
Ciolek to start with 4 team mates.
UHC may field a phantom team.
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Mellow Velo said:
Well in defense of Thomas
I was shocked that he rode/was made to ride MSR.I thought the limit to ride a race was 6 man roster, hence why Vino couldn't ride the 2006 TdF because Liberty/Astana had less than 6, but why T-Mobile were still able to ride it.
Edit: Is EBH riding all 4? I'm not a Sky fan so don't know the their roster for races, do you know their roster for the 4 races?
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BYOP88 said:Well in defense of Thomas
I thought the limit to ride a race was 6 man roster, hence why Vino couldn't ride the 2006 TdF because Liberty/Astana had less than 6, but why T-Mobile were still able to ride it.
Edit: Is EBH riding all 4? I'm not a Sky fan so don't know the their roster for races, do you know their roster for the 4 races?
Good call. EBH could very well be.
6 is the minimum for WT races, but tomorrow is European Tour, so it could be different.
tanx, illludo.
i agree fully that sciandri seems to be a key figure. the sciandri/quarrata/BC chapter is as intriguing as it is dodgy.
unsurprisingly sciandri was in full denial when the mccartney thing broke.
recently on this forum (not sure which thread) there had been some discussion about how UKAD without any clear reason fired one of their most acknowledged anti-doping specialists back in 2004.
UKAD's policy is clear: no positives, no scandals.
i agree fully that sciandri seems to be a key figure. the sciandri/quarrata/BC chapter is as intriguing as it is dodgy.
agreed, doesn't seem to be an ethics question.lllludo said:
lovely quote from tyggart and o so true.
unsurprisingly sciandri was in full denial when the mccartney thing broke.
yap.
recently on this forum (not sure which thread) there had been some discussion about how UKAD without any clear reason fired one of their most acknowledged anti-doping specialists back in 2004.
UKAD's policy is clear: no positives, no scandals.
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Obviously, I did bring up oranges to talk about apples. But they are both fruit...
My point was that the skepticism many posters have with being able to build power and loose weight is not based in anything besides presumption. I believe it is possible to loose weight and gain power through the manipulation of training and diet through experience and as a student of a sport. Force production for endurance athletes is much about muscle mass as it is about muscle recruitment, which can be trained. I don't buy the observation (that they are rail thin and can time-trial) as indication of doping.
My point was that the skepticism many posters have with being able to build power and loose weight is not based in anything besides presumption. I believe it is possible to loose weight and gain power through the manipulation of training and diet through experience and as a student of a sport. Force production for endurance athletes is much about muscle mass as it is about muscle recruitment, which can be trained. I don't buy the observation (that they are rail thin and can time-trial) as indication of doping.
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BYOP88 said:
Had a look on startlists. Not down to ride, because Sky have a Coppi e Bartali invite.
Looks like he's stayed in Italy for the stage race.
in december 2013 a german lab made a bit of a breakthrough in testing for AICAR.
perhaps a stretch, but could it be that they've just started testing for aicar?
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