Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[Caruut]

Using Eddie riding track as an example is ridiculous. Gotta remember that in those days, there wasn't the level of TV coverage we have now. The top road riders built up a reputation on the road then sold that to the paying crowds at the velodromes.

That fact that he set an hour record on the track is also a bit of an odd way to illustrate that he doesn't have it in him to be a top GC rider. Clearly setting an hour record shows that you have the ability to ride long TTs.

 

[Nocontest]

Why would Nibali get stronger? Does he suffer less than others or has he planned some 'margianl gains' for the 3rd week?

VDB is not threat as he cant TT well enough to stay in contention. He had to attack in the mountains. He has not made any dents into Sky's power.

Evans has a bad day but can usually manage that well and limit that damage as we saw.


Liqui's team at this TdF are not waiting to do anything. They cant do anything.

Well you are answering your own questions here from your previous post. you asked me where Evans was and i said he had a bad day...you agree above.

I agree VDB is not going to feature in the TT so why did you ask where he was? As I said he is right there. He did actually pull back some time and he may pull back more in the Pyrenees, lets wait and see but he was never going to be better than top 5 anyway.

Re Nibali, read what I said. I said he will get stronger relative to the others and isn't relativity what this is about? As others weaken the stronger athletes come to the fore? Isn't that what happens in all sports, why do Federer and Nadal generally win that last set with ease against lesser opponents? Because they they become stronger relative to their opponents.

Re LG, I may be wrong but I think they are taking it pretty easy. Why would they need to do much, Nibali is sitting in nicely so why not rest his support riders. Are you honestly suggesting that Basso has been struggling and lost 14 minutes today because he couldn't stay with the bunch? I don't think so. But I guesss we will see.

On another note I like Robert Millars Blog, sums up my thoughts on the Sky issue:

"And so to the subject of the Team Sky preparation, a subject which has been and will be debated on the cycling fora with much vigour. The fact is you will never know , you can only hope. All the team on the front or having four guys out of fifteen in the front group isn't unusual, it isn't proof of anything. It's what happens when you have the yellow jersey in the Tour, as a helper you turn yourself inside out everyday for that cause , you ride until you can't keep that pace and then you do it again the next day. A good pro can do that better than you would believe possible and if you have a strong team it looks and feels impressive to be part of that".

 

[pedaling squares]

This is my first post too. Made some comments on Guardian pages about credibility of Sky at La Planche des Belle Filles. Instant barrage of xenophobic jingoistic nationalist abuse, my comments were removed less than an hour later.

Assuming that you didn't use any profane words that are reserved for the explicit use of Bradley Wigans and CN forum administrators, that is a sad indictment of The Guardian.

 

[The Real GFY]

On another note I like Robert Millars Blog, sums up my thoughts on the Sky issue:

"And so to the subject of the Team Sky preparation, a subject which has been and will be debated on the cycling fora with much vigour. The fact is you will never know , you can only hope. All the team on the front or having four guys out of fifteen in the front group isn't unusual, it isn't proof of anything. It's what happens when you have the yellow jersey in the Tour, as a helper you turn yourself inside out everyday for that cause , you ride until you can't keep that pace and then you do it again the next day. A good pro can do that better than you would believe possible and if you have a strong team it looks and feels impressive to be part of that".

No doubt many folks agree with RM, and many others do not. This said, it is not having 4 of 15 in a front group, it is how many are pacing till part way up the final climb. If it was not unusual, then why do we not see it except in these 'special' situations (SKY, USPS) ...

 

[Telmisartan new]

Assuming that you didn't use any profane words that are reserved for the explicit use of Bradley Wigans and CN forum administrators, that is a sad indictment of The Guardian.

Indeed. Not one swear word in my post. Nor did i make any allegations, never even mentioned doping, merely said i found Sky's performances hard to believe. Cue post removed.

 

[Benotti69]

Assuming that you didn't use any profane words that are reserved for the explicit use of Bradley Wigans and CN forum administrators, that is a sad indictment of The Guardian.

Guardian do permit swearing but do not permit talk of doping!

 

[Benotti69]

Well you are answering your own questions here from your previous post. you asked me where Evans was and i said he had a bad day...you agree above.

I agree VDB is not going to feature in the TT so why did you ask where he was? As I said he is right there. He did actually pull back some time and he may pull back more in the Pyrenees, lets wait and see but he was never going to be better than top 5 anyway.

Re Nibali, read what I said. I said he will get stronger relative to the others and isn't relativity what this is about? As others weaken the stronger athletes come to the fore? Isn't that what happens in all sports, why do Federer and Nadal generally win that last set with ease against lesser opponents? Because they they become stronger relative to their opponents.

Re LG, I may be wrong but I think they are taking it pretty easy. Why would they need to do much, Nibali is sitting in nicely so why not rest his support riders. Are you honestly suggesting that Basso has been struggling and lost 14 minutes today because he couldn't stay with the bunch? I don't think so. But I guesss we will see.

On another note I like Robert Millars Blog, sums up my thoughts on the Sky issue:

"And so to the subject of the Team Sky preparation, a subject which has been and will be debated on the cycling fora with much vigour. The fact is you will never know , you can only hope. All the team on the front or having four guys out of fifteen in the front group isn't unusual, it isn't proof of anything. It's what happens when you have the yellow jersey in the Tour, as a helper you turn yourself inside out everyday for that cause , you ride until you can't keep that pace and then you do it again the next day. A good pro can do that better than you would believe possible and if you have a strong team it looks and feels impressive to be part of that".

Nibali is not sitting pretty as he cannot TT well enough to win!

Today and tomorrow are the days Nibali has left to win the TdF. Will it happen? Doubt it. Sky train will keep pace high.

As for Robert Millar. He has said "you will never know , you can only hope.". Sky have said different. Sky have said they dont and wont and will be transparent!

When we see it we can remove lots of the doubt.

 

[Caruut]

Guardian do permit swearing but do not permit talk of doping!

Mine were removed too. Pretty sure they sign contracts with some of their "celebrity" columnists.

I remember there was a piece by a Russian oligarch about reform in Russia, and how Russia needed "evolution not revolution". He forgot to mention that he had made a huge amount of money from the decline of the USSR, had several gang connection and was basically an establishment crook with a huge interest in Russia remaining how it is. Any comments pointing out these facts were swiftly removed.

You can be far more controversial and contentious than that on the comments pages of their "in-house" columnists, though.

 

[Fergoose]

I watched that Nibali attack and he didn't soft pedal after Sagan gave up. He, maybe, gave up when the time gaps came down to 20secs!

I wasn't offering an opinion. I was repeating the English translation of what Nibali was saying about his performance on that stage.

"At the foot of the descent we had nearly 50 seconds advantage. But Peter was tired. When he dropped off I slowed down because the chasers were close and I just wanted to save energy."

http://downloads.itv.com/ITV_TDF_Stage_10_2012.mp3
(about half way through)

Ergo, one piece of potential evidence against Porte is fundamentally undermined. If people want to keep clinging to that as a superhuman effort by Porte and ignoring Nibali's own opinion on the matter, then I think they are being a touch ungenerous.

Porte's performance on a flat stage is pretty unimportant. But when he starts climbing as one of the top 8 climbers in the race, dropping guys who put minutes into him on every mountain stage in the Giro '10, then alarm bells start to ring.

So when Porte fails to overcome a Cat 3 on one stage it is unimportant but when he makes an effort to contain a energy-saving Nibali on another Cat 3 (on Stage 10) it is massively incriminating. Got it. Maybe he was just sandbagging yesterday to try and throw us off the scent.

I’ll continue to differentiate between someone using up 100% of their effort on a fraction of a climb before peeling off and someone else (GC contender) staying out of the red to get to the top in the quickest possible time. If it happens too much in one race or on consecutive stages it looks dodgy. If it is an occasional effort on selected stages, then it smells less fishy to me.

 

[hiero2]

Well, I got up late this morning to discover that Bradley has basically apologized for the tirade, and said he understands why the question gets asked:
http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/12389/Wiggins-says-that-he-needs-to-be-more-open-with-media.aspxThese are just words - but at least he does not tell us he is passing all the drug tests. His statement sounds to me pretty much the same as his statements in 2007.

Add to that the Froome interview revealed this morning by L'Equipe (?, not sure it was L'Equipe, but I think it was) and I find my alarm bells are a bit silenced.

Remember the Tour with Hinault and Lemond - I doubt very much that Hinault could have won that Tour without Lemond, and I think Lemond could have won the Tour that year. Having two such strong riders will pull the whole team higher.

 

[Caruut]

I think the character of the man shows through more in what he said without thinking than what Sky's PR team cooked up a few days later.

 

[UlleGigo]

I think the character of the man shows through more in what he said without thinking than what Sky's PR team cooked up a few days later.

No no. He's a reformed character who has empathy for c**** and w****** everywhere.

 

[hiero2]

Interesting to note that the allegedly juiced up Richie Porte, member of the mighty, all conquering Sky Team couldn’t make it over the Cat 3 yesterday to help out his teammates. Elite climbers like EBH & Griepel however did manage to make it back to the front of the pack (although Sky's Cavendish also failed).

Also an interview here where Nibali speaks about his downhill attack where he joined up with Sagan and was pulled back by Porte (Stage 10?). Nibali confirms that working with Sagan he got a 50 second gap. However, once Sagan had to give up, Nibali took his foot right off the gas, electing to fight another day.

I also noted that on yesterdays stage that Mr Zero EBH managed to whittle down the peloton to 30 odd riders again – indicating that such an effort is not superhuman.

I’m getting more comfortable with Porte’s performances with each day that passes. Other than a decent turn on Stage 7 (which I found credible) I'm struggling to remember anything he has done that has been particularly impressive.

Yup. I agree. There are still some pointers that make me suspicious, but there are also developments that put things where I can believe they might be clean as they claim.

 

[hiero2]

I think the character of the man shows through more in what he said without thinking than what Sky's PR team cooked up a few days later.

You certainly have a point here - and I agree with you. But people often have two characters - the one that responds out of anger in the moment - and the one that thinks about things for a while and then responds. Think about bar fights and other drunken displays that are regretted the next day. Or road rage accidents and incidents. Wiggins has got a temper and he isn't very empathetic, for sure. That doesn't mean he does not have a brain and can rationally think and answer when he is given enough time and motivation. His character might show through better in the first response, but I like to look at the whole picture when I am trying to figure out what a person is doing when I can't see them.

 

[enCYCLOpedia]

Mine were removed too. Pretty sure they sign contracts with some of their "celebrity" columnists.

The Guardian: where comment is free. ...but facts are sacred.

 

[mastersracer]

Cav is now pacing Wiggins on the climb - this Tour is officially slow...

 

[Libertine Seguros]

No no. He's a reformed character who has empathy for c**** and w****** everywhere.

Haha. He has empathy with ****s and ******s. Sounds about right.

 

[thehog]

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/1...ointed-to-be-attacked-by-Bradley-Wiggins.aspx


Good to see Virenque setting the record straight on Wiggo.... he needs more panache!

-
“If Wiggins wants to be adored by the French public, I would advise him to be more aggressive, like a Thomas Voeckler, a Sylvain Chavanel, a Thibaut Pinot or a Pierre Rolland knows how to do,” he said. “And also to speak more French so the public can appreciate him.

“Yes, I am surprised and somewhat disappointed by such remarks but…”

 

[TourOfSardinia]

Bruyneel talking up Wiggo-Froome - who could be worse testimony?

 

[gustienordic]

Bruyneel talking up Wiggo-Froome - who could be worse testimony?

Ohh Johan, trying to create drama as usual

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/1...ointed-to-be-attacked-by-Bradley-Wiggins.aspx


Good to see Virenque setting the record straight on Wiggo.... he needs more panache!

From the same article:

Cyclism'Actu columnist Cyrille Guimard ... is also apparently confused by Wiggins’ choice of words, comparing the relative standing of cycling as a sport in the two countries.

“Road cycling is poorly developed in England, it does not have this culture of doping that you can have in Latin countries. For Wiggins, someone who has been caught doping should not be a hero.

 

[Tyler'sTwin]

Only Millar can comeback from a doping ban as a hero.

 

[taiwan]

From the same article:

Cyclism'Actu columnist Cyrille Guimard ... is also apparently confused by Wiggins’ choice of words, comparing the relative standing of cycling as a sport in the two countries.

“Road cycling is poorly developed in England, it does not have this culture of doping that you can have in Latin countries. For Wiggins, someone who has been caught doping should not be a hero.

That there's no pro cycling scene in Britain does not mean that British cyclists don't dope in Europe. Sometimes they do.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

That there's no pro cycling scene in Britain does not mean that British cyclists don't dope in Europe. Sometimes they do.

I never said they didn't. You just need to look at David Millar. It was more the the perception of the French columnist of Wiggins.

 

[taiwan]

I never said they didn't. You just need to look at David Millar. It was more the the perception of the French columnist of Wiggins.

In that case I don't understand your point He seems to be responding to what Wiggins blogged rather than describing the attitude generally attributed to Wiggins.