Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[thehog]

That's pretty much the definition of an indirect relationship. And given Cookson is in Britain, and his son was in Columbia, one wonders at the length of the cutlery for their shared dinners...

Wow, and that's a strawman on the river, Hog. Trolling straight, strawman high.

Come on, Hogster, We know this from you isn't going to work. You pushed a little too far in the first instance, you got caught. It's no biggie. We all go on tilt occasionally. Just saddle up, and try and catch me next time...

Still playing the man and getting somewhat aggressive. Par for the course.

As you stated above you're attempting to suggest there is no direct relationship because they were once in different counties.

Are you suggesting Oli has spent all his time in Colombia? Surely not?

Say it ain't so Martin.

 

[gooner]

When you start going on football forums and attack the levels of doping going on there rather than expressing your everlasting love for anyone who ever got a contract in that sport, then you can start telling cycling fans who to direct their ire against.

Not that I need the right to defend dopers. I've called out Riis and contador many a time.

But I think those who want to support Riis have as much right to close their eyes to his closet as you do to football's.

I'm not a member of any football forum. I don't need to be when there isn't a day goes by when I'm not talking about it endlessly to friends or family. Totally opposite to cycling where not one person I know has any interest of sort in this sport. Therefore this forum is the only way I can engage on cycling and why I post here.

Plus, you don't know what I've said in the past to football fans about the topic on doping in football. I can assure you I've put my points to the likes of Graham Hunter and Arsenal fans on twitter about this. Both who were slagging off cycling and in the case of the latter, the criticism was to us fans which prompted my response. Similar with friends as well. I had a few interactions with Miguel Delaney on this and he's actually one of the few journalists that will listen to you on this.

I can dig up numerous posts debunking your myth that I someone don't have a care in the world for doping in football.

I can talk about Riis all I like and in the case of the club I support, thankfully there's no Riis style figure around.

 

[The Hitch]

To be honest I would have more respect for you if you just said you hate Sky and love Valverde because he is a doper who "always had talent" rather than saying it just dressed up in the flowery political speak you seem to love

This is precisely what ls meant when he said "two sentence troll posts"

That's the level you operate at. And, like the priests and imams who rejected scientific advancement because it was the work of the devil, you distrust longer more complex, layered and we'll constructed posts that actually introduce ideas, and shout - witch!!!

Just because your thoughts on sky are 100% based on preheld biases, doesn't mean everyone are.

 

[The Hitch]

I can dig up numerous posts debunking your myth that I someone don't have a care in the world for doping in football.
.

And I can bring up numerous posts from sniper bennoti and whoever else you had in mind, debunking the myth that they don't care about Riis. In fact both those posters were far far more vocal in their support for contador getting banned and active in the contador case thread than any sky fan on this thread.

So I don't get your point. If you were trying to say that they don't attack Riis then you are clearly wrong, they sure as hell have, even their great enemy Dr Mas always defended them on that.

 

[TailWindHome]

You've spent enough time in the clinic to know that cycling journos are way too startstruck with anyone who has their own wikipedia page and will never ever confront them on what they said before

Luckily we have the bold Digger

**** the hypocrisy ‏@Digger_forum · 21h
Why aren't journalists asking Brian Cookson about his independent testing promise.


**** the hypocrisy ‏@Digger_forum · 21h
@BrianCooksonUCI what happened to independent testing, something which was at the cornerstone of your campaign nine months ago?

Brian Cookson OBE ‏@BrianCooksonUCI · 20h
@Digger_forum CADF is now fully independent of UCI.


I assume Digger is still thinking of a follow up.

 

[gooner]

And I can bring up numerous posts from sniper bennoti and whoever else you had in mind, debunking the myth that they don't care about Riis. In fact both those posters were far far more vocal in their support for contador getting banned and active in the contador case thread than any sky fan on this thread.

So I don't get your point. If you were trying to say that they don't attack Riis then you are clearly wrong, they sure as hell have, even their great enemy Dr Mas always defended them on that.

I said it in the context of wanting Oli Cookson out of the sport. Those 2 posters have said this and does he deserve the same plight as a what a guy in Riis should get? No way and that's why we should be keeping our tabs on Riis, Och, Eki, doping docs still in the sport than for them to be going after Oli Cookson who by all means could be a well intentioned person with the best interests of the sport in his make-up.

The thing I will refer to them(along with a few others) in their hypocritical judgement and stand by, is how they would have reacted if Adam Yates as a British rider did what he achieved in Turkey as a Sky rider. He's a talented rider but I guarantee you the Sky thread would have been a lot more active if that was the case.

I still don't get why you went off on one about football.

 

[TailWindHome]

The problem, isn't that there's a real conflict of interest here, it's that you don't have any faith in the UCI to manage such a conflict appropriately.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

To be honest I would have more respect for you if you just said you hate Sky and love Valverde because he is a doper who "always had talent" rather than saying it just dressed up in the flowery political speak you seem to love

Since you use those inverted commas, can you please clarify for me: do you think Valverde was doping when he was 11 years old?

 

[stutue]

Luckily we have the bold Digger

**** the hypocrisy ‏@Digger_forum · 21h
Why aren't journalists asking Brian Cookson about his independent testing promise.


**** the hypocrisy ‏@Digger_forum · 21h
@BrianCooksonUCI what happened to independent testing, something which was at the cornerstone of your campaign nine months ago?

Brian Cookson OBE ‏@BrianCooksonUCI · 20h
@Digger_forum CADF is now fully independent of UCI.


I assume Digger is still thinking of a follow up.

And the score at halftime is...

Cookson 1. Some keyboard warrior 0

 

[the sceptic]

And the score at halftime is...

Cookson 1. Some keyboard warrior 0

http://www.uci.ch/templates/UCI/UCI1/layout.asp?MenuId=MTUzNDc&LangId=1

The independence of the CADF was significantly reinforced in September 2013 when its Board was completely renewed. The CADF is chaired by the former President of the UCI Anti-Doping Commission (who resigned this post to take up the chairmanship of CADF), Dr George Ruijsch Van Dugteren, and comprises three members who are independent of the UCI: two legal experts, Mr Christophe Misteli and Mr Thomas Capdevielle, and financial expert Mr Yvan Haymoz.

The UCI determines the CADF’s priorities in terms of the testing strategy and broad lines of approach through a contract of services. This contract will be adapted on an annual basis after evaluation of the results obtained and the situation arising from the tests carried out.

Does this sound "fully independent" to you?

 

[martinvickers]

Still playing the man and getting somewhat aggressive. Par for the course.

As you stated above you're attempting to suggest there is no direct relationship because they were once in different counties.

No, Hog. I was suggesting it might be hard to have 'shared dinners' while they are in different countries, as you suggested - hence why I mentioned 'shared dinners' - and the fairly obvious reference to the length of the cutlery.

From your post

Apart from his son. That's direct isn't it? Blood line? Sharing dinner with your son. Or maybe he refusing to speak to his son so there's no direct discussions on Sky.

Are you suggesting Oli has spent all his time in Colombia? Surely not?

Say it ain't so Martin.

Creak...creak...goalposts...so...heavy...CRASH!.

At least a 7 for effort, Hog. Admirable, but mistaken.

But you're on a loser, and we both know it. Come on, stop trying to make it personal, Hogster, we're beyond that - take your medicine, it happens us all, go back, try again.

 

[Digger]

Luckily we have the bold Digger

**** the hypocrisy ‏@Digger_forum · 21h
Why aren't journalists asking Brian Cookson about his independent testing promise.


**** the hypocrisy ‏@Digger_forum · 21h
@BrianCooksonUCI what happened to independent testing, something which was at the cornerstone of your campaign nine months ago?

Brian Cookson OBE ‏@BrianCooksonUCI · 20h
@Digger_forum CADF is now fully independent of UCI.


I assume Digger is still thinking of a follow up.

Deleting...I can't be bothered....

 

[stutue]

http://www.uci.ch/templates/UCI/UCI1/layout.asp?MenuId=MTUzNDc&LangId=1



Does this sound "fully independent" to you?

Actually you are correct. There are still huge issues revealed in this independent audit:


http://m.insidethegames.biz/sports/...ent-improvements-to-uci-anti-doping-practices


(P.s. Try not to look at the bit where it says who commissioned the audit)

 

[Hugh Januss]

The problem, isn't that there's a real conflict of interest here, it's that you don't have any faith in the UCI to manage such a conflict appropriately.

No the problem is that the UCI has never done much of anything to justify that sort of faith.

 

[Hugh Januss]

I said it in the context of wanting Oli Cookson out of the sport. Those 2 posters have said this and does he deserve the same plight as a what a guy in Riis should get? No way and that's why we should be keeping our tabs on Riis, Och, Eki, doping docs still in the sport than for them to be going after Oli Cookson who by all means could be a well intentioned person with the best interests of the sport in his make-up.

The thing I will refer to them(along with a few others) in their hypocritical judgement and stand by, is how they would have reacted if Adam Yates as a British rider did what he achieved in Turkey as a Sky rider. He's a talented rider but I guarantee you the Sky thread would have been a lot more active if that was the case.

I still don't get why you went off on one about football.

It is this kind of "cozyness" within the sport which allows all those to remain in place. It is any "oldboys" club from top to bottom.

 

[Benotti69]

Dementia playing up?
It was fine yesterday, when you were left relying on it.

I am not the one who forgets the sport has never done anything to change the doping culture.......oh except say that it did.

Keep forking out for that balck and blue rapha gear Mel, i am sure you look great in it.

 

[the sceptic]

No, Hog. I was suggesting it might be hard to have 'shared dinners' while they are in different countries, as you suggested - hence why I mentioned 'shared dinners' - and the fairly obvious reference to the length of the cutlery.

From your post





Creak...creak...goalposts...so...heavy...CRASH!.

At least a 7 for effort, Hog. Admirable, but mistaken.

But you're on a loser, and we both know it. Come on, stop trying to make it personal, Hogster, we're beyond that - take your medicine, it happens us all, go back, try again.

Ball, not man.

 

[The Hitch]

The thing I will refer to them(along with a few others) in their hypocritical judgement and stand by, is how they would have reacted if Adam Yates as a British rider did what he achieved in Turkey as a Sky rider. He's a talented rider but I guarantee you the Sky thread would have been a lot more active if that was the case.
.

Based on what? You don't know that.

You have no proof those posters would have behaved that way.

 

[del1962]

This is precisely what ls meant when he said "two sentence troll posts"

That's the level you operate at. And, like the priests and imams who rejected scientific advancement because it was the work of the devil, you distrust longer more complex, layered and we'll constructed posts that actually introduce ideas, and shout - witch!!!

Just because your thoughts on sky are 100% based on preheld biases, doesn't mean everyone are.

To be honest Hitch it is the likes of you that seem to have the pre-held prejudices who shout doper like a medieval witch trial would.

I prefer some thought of evidence in the he failed a test, he was provided with drugs, he was seen taking or in possesion of drugs, sort of stuff, it means I am not limited by my prejudices.

 

[Mellow Velo]

I am not the one who forgets the sport has never done anything to change the doping culture.......oh except say that it did.

Keep forking out for that balck and blue rapha gear Mel, i am sure you look great in it.

........aaaaaaaaand, once again, playing the man becomes perfect fine again.
You and McQuaid have a lot in common as far as rules go.

What's balck, btw?

 

[Benotti69]

What's balck, btw?

It's like Chinarello........

 

[The Hitch]

To be honest Hitch it is the likes of you that seem to have the pre-held prejudices who shout doper like a medieval witch trial would.

I prefer some thought of evidence in the he failed a test, he was provided with drugs, he was seen taking or in possesion of drugs, sort of stuff, it means I am not limited by my prejudices.

What preheld biases?

I think it's very easy to demonstrate you reserve all your support for people of your nationality and unfortunately you are one of the people who hurts doping discussions by extending this parochial bias to questions of right and wrong.

Me, you cannot demonstrate I had anything against Wiggins or froome before it sky launched their massive lie programme in 2012 and if you look through my posts you will find more often than not I defended them.

No bias here.

As for witches, I've already said, I use similar standards to judge my dopers as I do my witches- whether or not they can fly.

The other similarity is that both witches and the mythical clean froome and Wiggins you believe niz are supernatural creatures.

 

[martinvickers]

Deleting...I can't be bothered....

That's a bit odd, Digger.

You, a relative nobody (and that's not a personal dig, just the reality of all of us here) asked a question, the guy who runs the darn sport actually answered you within, what, a day? more or less in good faith. And you seem to be...annoyed...at him answering?

Did you just ask for rhetorical effect or something...I just don't understand that response...

 

[martinvickers]

Ball, not man.

You, not relevant.

 

[martinvickers]

Based on what? You don't know that.

You have no proof those posters would have behaved that way.

I thought one didn't need proof round here?