Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[sniper]

That's a bit odd, Digger.

You, a relative nobody (and that's not a personal dig, just the reality of all of us here) asked a question, the guy who runs the darn sport actually answered you within, what, a day? more or less in good faith. And you seem to be...annoyed...at him answering?

Did you just ask for rhetorical effect or something...I just don't understand that response...

not answering for digger, but as far as i can tell, if cookson says it's fully independent, he's flat out lying.
it's not fully independent (see e.g. sceptic's post few pages back.)

 

[the sceptic]

You, not relevant.

Just do everyone a favor and go away. No one wants to read your constant clogging of the sky threads.

 

[gooner]

He recalls being a young pro at 20, stuffing his car and driving to the south of France where he was given a small apartment and little else.

"Who knows what you'd have done?" he says. "I was just very fortunate that I was around type of people at that time who never put that pressure on me."

As for defrocked seven-time Tour de France winner Lance Armstrong, Wiggins said he has no sympathy for the cyclist he called "the last great train robber to get caught" even if he understands the circumstances in which they found themselves.

"They were all grown adults that knew exactly what they were doing," he said. "They paid the price. I still think they are victims of the culture of that time."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...dley-wiggins-cycling-doping-culture/8943325/?

 

[The Hitch]

I thought one didn't need proof round here?

No, overwhelming evidence is sufficient, for most of us.

But people like you and gooner who explicitly claim evidence is irrelvant without proof, shouldn't then apply a different logic to other questions.

 

[Benotti69]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...dley-wiggins-cycling-doping-culture/8943325/?

That culture hasn't gone away you know.........

 

[martinvickers]

Just do everyone a favor and go away. No one wants to read your constant clogging of the sky threads.

Temper, temper.

I didn't ask you to stick your nose in a discussion that was nothing to do with you, just so you could bait someone you don't like, and who you've publically admitted to deliberately baiting. You did that all by yourself.

I just let you know, your little comment was irrelevant.

And then this temper tantrum.

Tisk, tisk.

 

[martinvickers]

No, overwhelming evidence is sufficient, for most of us.

But people like you and gooner who explicitly claim evidence is irrelvant without proof, shouldn't then apply a different logic to other questions.

Evidence is never irrelevant. Wish we had more. Pure supposition and conspiracy theory, on the other hand....

 

[The Hitch]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...dley-wiggins-cycling-doping-culture/8943325/?

Imagine if Wiggins suddenly got told in 2009 when there was a culture of massive doping, that he could challenge for the win if he started doping.

I wonder what he would have done

Anyway Even the wiggins fans in this thread (except for total beliebers like Parker and del) aknowledge he is a liar and a scumbag, so everyone knows anything that comes out of his mouth is BS.

 

[The Hitch]

Evidence is never irrelevant. Wish we had more. Pure supposition and conspiracy theory, on the other hand....

Glad to hear you've changed your opinion. When we were discussing the actual evidence you argued very much to the contrary

 

[gooner]

No, overwhelming evidence is sufficient, for most of us.

But people like you and gooner who explicitly claim evidence is irrelvant without proof, shouldn't then apply a different logic to other questions.

Stuff was thrown at Stannard after his OHN win and when Kristoff wins MSR, there was more talk about Ben Swift. Barely a word if any on Gerrans when he won LBL.

Spilak catches up on Froome after an attack that was called ridiculous on here and again nothing of note highlighted on him.

If Yates won Turkey as a British rider on Sky, I can safely say as a result of the above, he would have got dirt thrown at him, especially in a race where there were two positives with the previous two winners.

 

[martinvickers]

Glad to hear you've changed your opinion. When we were discussing the actual evidence you argued very much to the contrary

Haven't remotely changed my opinion.

1.You are pre-supposing, for starters, that everything you were raising was actually evidence at all. Not a pre-supposition I necessarily shared.

2. Evidence is always relevant. It's not always convincing, and it's even less often conclusive. and that's when it's even evidence...

 

[Benotti69]

Stuff was thrown at Stannard after his OHN win and when Kristoff wins MSR, there was more talk about Ben Swift. Barely a word if any on Gerrans when he won LBL.

Spilak catches up on Froome after an attack that was called ridiculous on here and again nothing of note highlighted on him.

If Yates won Turkey as a British rider on Sky, I can safely say as a result of the above, he would have got dirt thrown at him, especially in a race where there were two positives with the previous two winners.

Gooner you seem upset about the so called 'transparent' team is getting all the flak.

Gerrans vigorously defended Armstrong as the greatest rider in the sport. Why believe he would even contemplate riding clean?

Spilak rode for 4 years on clean Lampre. Go figure

Repeating this about other riders not getting flak shows how deep your love for Sky is. Time for a new avatar?

 

[gooner]

Gooner you seem upset about the so called 'transparent' team is getting all the flak.

And some of that flak is well deserved.

Gerrans vigorously defended Armstrong as the greatest rider in the sport. Why believe he would even contemplate riding clean?

Spilak rode for 4 years on clean Lampre. Go figure

So that makes it OK to be a lot less quiet on them?

You keep saying it's because of Sky fans the threads are so busy. The stuff thrown at Stannard earlier in the year and the thread on Ben Swift had nothing to do with going up against Sky fans.

That's why I brought Adam Yates into this. At GreenEdge not a word, at Sky it would be different and something you would jump all over.

Repeating this about other riders not getting flak shows how deep your love for Sky is. Time for a new avatar?

Happy with my avatar. Thank you very much.

 

[the sceptic]

I can already sense that when Froome gets busted it will become "But he didnt do anything different than other teams, it was a level field"

 

[CycloAndy]

Based on what? You don't know that.

You have no proof those posters would have behaved that way.

I can't tell if this is a joke? This is the equivalent of a 'never tested positive' comment.

 

[Hugh Januss]

As for witches, I've already said, I use similar standards to judge my dopers as I do my witches- whether or not they can fly.

Best line of the day.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Spilak catches up on Froome after an attack that was called ridiculous on here and again nothing of note highlighted on him.

What's to say? Of course he dopes he's not British.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...dley-wiggins-cycling-doping-culture/8943325/?

Sure .

"I love him," Wiggins said. "I think he's great. He's transformed the sport in so many ways. Every person in cycling has benefitted from Lance Armstrong, perhaps not financially but in some sense. Even his strongest critics have benefitted from him. I don't think this sport will ever realise what he's brought it or how big he's made it.

"Cycling was in the dark ages before he came along, in many ways. You only have to look at the support along the roads, compared to what it was 20 years ago. The majority of that is because of Lance Armstrong. Obviously he has his enemies and people among the fans who don't like him, but they've all benefitted from him and his existence on the Tour."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2010/jul/25/tour-de-france-2010-lance-armstrong

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Spilak catches up on Froome after an attack that was called ridiculous on here and again nothing of note highlighted on him.

Seriously? Are you seriously posting this as an example where people are picking on Sky? Despite repeated posts and links where the DS of Sky said "Froome waited for Spilak"?

Good grief.

 

[Ferminal]

I wouldn't want to bump my Katusha thread anymore or I may be banned for spamming.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

I wouldn't want to bump my Katusha thread anymore or I may be banned for spamming.

Haters gonna hate.

 

[The Hitch]

I can't tell if this is a joke? This is the equivalent of a 'never tested positive' comment.

Exactly.

I do believe if Yates was on Sky there would probably be more heat on him.
(though not from me, I generally stay out of the discussions on all other Sky riders, eg - Kennaugh, Thomas, since none of those have so far been anywhere near as clear cut as Wiggins and Froome).

At the same time, that's consistent with my own attitude to these questions.

But Imo someone like Gooner, who most of the time flat out refuses to follow the logic without a smoking gun, shouldn't be making comments like that with such certainty without proof.

 

[The Hitch]

Seriously? Are you seriously posting this as an example where people are picking on Sky? Despite repeated posts and links where the DS of Sky said "Froome waited for Spilak"?

Good grief.

You may want to repost the quote from Sky saying Froome waited for Spillak. You know just in case certain posters actually did miss it the first 10 x it was posted and really had no idea Sky admitted Froome waited, and therefore aren't trolling atm.

Not to mention that Spillak isn't a TDF winner, and hasn't claimed to be living breathing proof of cycling's cleanliness. Guess certain posters missed when those things happened as well.

 

[The Hitch]

I wouldn't want to bump my Katusha thread anymore or I may be banned for spamming.

If Murito really is working with Horner's doc from Vuelta, might be more than just me and you in that thread in a few weeks.

 

[Digger]

not answering for digger, but as far as i can tell, if cookson says it's fully independent, he's flat out lying.
it's not fully independent (see e.g. sceptic's post few pages back.)

this....but it's pointless.