Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[The Hitch]

I wouldn't want to bump my Katusha thread anymore or I may be banned for spamming.

If Murito really is working with Horner's doc from Vuelta, might be more than just me and you in that thread in a few weeks.

 

[Digger]

not answering for digger, but as far as i can tell, if cookson says it's fully independent, he's flat out lying.
it's not fully independent (see e.g. sceptic's post few pages back.)

this....but it's pointless.

 

[martinvickers]

this....but it's pointless.

But he didn't say that...

More to the point, if it's pointless, why ask in the first place? It just comes across as grandstanding for the sake of it, trying to look probing when you're not really trying to be, and then getting caught unawares when he actually had an answer for you.

If you want to make a point to him, make the point. If you want clarification, ask for clarification.

But thus...this IS pointless.

 

[The Hitch]

But he didn't say that...

More to the point, if it's pointless, why ask in the first place? It just comes across as grandstanding for the sake of it, trying to look probing when you're not really trying to be, and then getting caught unawares when he actually had an answer for you.

If you want to make a point to him, make the point. If you want clarification, ask for clarification.

But thus...this IS pointless.

I do agree with you it's pointless. If one believes uci is corrupt to the core then one shouldn't allow uci to hone their anti doping image by informing them of their flaws. Reform is the enemy of revolution. one who believes this should support the uci like the rope supports the hanging man.

 

[sniper]

But he didn't say that...

More to the point, if it's pointless, why ask in the first place? It just comes across as grandstanding for the sake of it, trying to look probing when you're not really trying to be, and then getting caught unawares when he actually had an answer for you.

If you want to make a point to him, make the point. If you want clarification, ask for clarification.

But thus...this IS pointless.

why aren't you worried about the fact that cookson is flat out lying?

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Stuff was thrown at Stannard after his OHN win and when Kristoff wins MSR, there was more talk about Ben Swift. Barely a word if any on Gerrans when he won LBL.

Spilak catches up on Froome after an attack that was called ridiculous on here and again nothing of note highlighted on him.

If Yates won Turkey as a British rider on Sky, I can safely say as a result of the above, he would have got dirt thrown at him, especially in a race where there were two positives with the previous two winners.

You do need to grow some Millwall balls my boy.

 

[martinvickers]

why aren't you worried about the fact that cookson is flat out lying?

Because I'm far from convinced he is. And people seem to be almost afraid to ask him to clarify for some bizarre reason.

You'd almost conclude people WANT UCI to be corrupt, WANT Cookson to be corrupt. Would be ANNOYED if there was improvement. As if protecting their own narrative is more important than the bleeding sport! Almost.

Digger asked a good question. About time someone did. But he wasn't ignored. He got an answer that was at least partly useful, and rather than pull at the thread to see exactly where it goes, everybody's (not just Digger by any stretch) run off clucking like hens. Like they didn't actually want an answer. Like getting an answer actually miffed them. Like it was just grandstanding.

And now Hitch is spouting that you really SHOULDN'T ask UCI follow ups, because it only helps the UCI find the flaws themselves!! Much better to run off and have a good speculate in the Clinic!!

You really couldn't make that sh!t up, sniper. That is circularity brought to an amazing new level. Don't question the corrupt, it only encourages them!! I bet politicians would love that rule!

Now, you may in an honest moment consider yourself 'on the side' of these posters. That's fine. But this is not their finest hour.

 

[Digger]

But he didn't say that...

More to the point, if it's pointless, why ask in the first place? It just comes across as grandstanding for the sake of it, trying to look probing when you're not really trying to be, and then getting caught unawares when he actually had an answer for you.

If you want to make a point to him, make the point. If you want clarification, ask for clarification.

But thus...this IS pointless.

I did reply...but engaging with you is pointless. You see Martin you are very quick to jump in. When I said originally on here this is pointless, I meant it's pointless engaging with most people on here.

That's the difference.

 

[Digger]

Because I'm far from convinced he is. And people seem to be almost afraid to ask him to clarify for some bizarre reason.

You'd almost conclude people WANT UCI to be corrupt, WANT Cookson to be corrupt. Would be ANNOYED if there was improvement. As if protecting their own narrative is more important than the bleeding sport! Almost.

Digger asked a good question. About time someone did. But he wasn't ignored. He got an answer that was at least partly useful, and rather than pull at the thread to see exactly where it goes, everybody's (not just Digger by any stretch) run off clucking like hens. Like they didn't actually want an answer. Like getting an answer actually miffed them. Like it was just grandstanding.

And now Hitch is spouting that you really SHOULDN'T ask UCI follow ups, because it only helps the UCI find the flaws themselves!! Much better to run off and have a good speculate in the Clinic!!

You really couldn't make that sh!t up, sniper. That is circularity brought to an amazing new level. Don't question the corrupt, it only encourages them!! I bet politicians would love that rule!

Now, you may in an honest moment consider yourself 'on the side' of these posters. That's fine. But this is not their finest hour.

The usual patronising condescending post from martin whereby he tells us all how we should be behaving and posting.

Btw, I have been reading this forum, without posting, a lot this week. And the thing that leaps out at me, is that you Martin are guilty of the one thing you and your buddies on twitter used to gang up on me about...bullying.

I hardly ever see a post from you where you don't insult. And I cannot fathom how you get away with it. You are constantly ribbing, patronising, insulting.

 

[stutue]

You'd almost conclude people WANT UCI to be corrupt, WANT Cookson to be corrupt. Would be ANNOYED if there was improvement. As if protecting their own narrative is more important than the bleeding sport!

I must admit I think there's more than a grain of truth in this. Of course a corrupt UCI is almost a neccesity in the explanation of Sky's success, as propounded here. Not by everybody, but there is a certain cultishness about the way The Message is repeated here, over and over again until it is learnt by all.

The huge irony is that, deep down, if we're honest, we all know what would be totally unpalatable to many participants here....

...a clean Team Sky.

 

[Digger]

I must admit I think there's more than a grain of truth in this. Of course a corrupt UCI is almost a neccesity in the explanation of Sky's success, as propounded here. Not by everybody, but there is a certain cultishness about the way The Message is repeated here, over and over again until it is learnt by all.The huge irony is that, deep down, we all know what would be totally unpalatable to the participants here....

...a clean Team Sky.

Unbelievably ironic.

 

[stutue]

Unbelievably ironic.

You think I buy the marginal gains bs? Think again.

My post is a reflection on the underlying motivations of a fair few posters here....not about the veracity of their actual opinions.

 

[the sceptic]

You think I buy the marginal gains bs? Think again.

My post is a reflection on the underlying motivations of a fair few posters here....not about the veracity of their actual opinions.

Which previously banned skybot are you? I cant quite place your brand of idiocy.

 

[stutue]

I've been here long enough to learn that you can only respond with insults.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I must admit I think there's more than a grain of truth in this. Of course a corrupt UCI is almost a neccesity in the explanation of Sky's success, as propounded here. Not by everybody, but there is a certain cultishness about the way The Message is repeated here, over and over again until it is learnt by all.

The huge irony is that, deep down, if we're honest, we all know what would be totally unpalatable to many participants here....

...a clean Team Sky.

Notwithstanding the other irony that has already been pointed out, you are right in some ways.

Sky are past the point of no return with regards to believability for a not inconsiderable number of fans. Their performances are such that many fans have almost if not totally removed "Sky are clean" from their list of eventualities. Their performances have been so unbelievable that for many, even if Jesus Christ himself were to be embedded at the team and declare them clean people would suspect a whitewash. And if people do not accept Sky being clean as a possibility, then of course they want them busted and removed from their present dominant position.

But before we start to pity Sky for the sad position they have been put in, let's remember that they have contributed a lot towards fans' scepticism and the most sceptical of fans no longer entertaining the possibility of Froome, Porte and co. riding clean. Stories about diseases that change as often as the subject is brought up, and at times runs contrary to current medical consideration, running away from questions about dubious doctors or lying when forced to face them, and egregious praise of notorious dopers are all considerations that mean it's a lot easier to feel comfortable stating "there is a strong possibility Sky are not clean" than the opposite.

 

[stutue]

As an intelligent and thoughtful commentator you won't be surprised to learn that I agree with you.

Edit: Fkit. I can't be bothered. I'm deleting my previous post.

 

[oldcrank]

So you see, the only proof
Of what you are is in the way you hear the truth
Don't be scared, live to win
Although they're always gonna tell you it's a sin

excerpt from 'Stay Clean' by Ian Fraser 'Lemmy' Kilmister
and his legendary band Motorhead

 

[stutue]

Every Motorhead song in existence sounds like Killed by Death.

Its worth going to see them gig, just to watch how annoyed Lemmy gets when the cheer of anticipation goes up at the start of every song they play

 

[thehog]

The usual patronising condescending post from martin whereby he tells us all how we should be behaving and posting.

Btw, I have been reading this forum, without posting, a lot this week. And the thing that leaps out at me, is that you Martin are guilty of the one thing you and your buddies on twitter used to gang up on me about...bullying.

I hardly ever see a post from you where you don't insult. And I cannot fathom how you get away with it. You are constantly ribbing, patronising, insulting.

I believe the fence he supposedly sits on is about to break

 

[oldcrank]

The first time I saw Lemmy, my friend, was in May 1972
at the legendary Bickershaw Festival near Wigan. He
was still with Hawkwind at the time and he was standing
on top of their bus, for reasons I can no longer recall.

 

[gooner]

Seriously? Are you seriously posting this as an example where people are picking on Sky? Despite repeated posts and links where the DS of Sky said "Froome waited for Spilak"?

Good grief.

Was Porte let off when Froome was dragging him away at the Dauphine last year and he was struggling to keep his wheel?

 

[Zam_Olyas]

The first time I saw Lemmy, my friend, was in May 1972
at the legendary Bickershaw Festival near Wigan. He
was still with Hawkwind at the time and he was standing
on top of their bus, for reasons I can no longer recall.

The important thing is can he ride a bicycle?

 

[BYOP88]

Why is that? The problem with doping docs in sport hasn't just gone away with Ferrari out of cycling and Leinders leaving Sky. I think dimspace who we know on twitter wrote an excellent article highlighting this in the past.

http://dopingzaak.nl/blog/2012/10/13/manuel-rodriguez/

http://dopingzaak.nl/blog/2012/04/09/astana/

http://dopingzaak.nl/blog/2012/04/09/katusha/

http://dopingzaak.nl/blog/2012/04/11/emilio-magni/

http://www.cyclismas.com/biscuits/is...-in-the-house/

Dim didn't write the article he just translated these Dutch ones by the looks of it, unless they stole his work.

 

[stutue]

The important thing is can he ride a bicycle?

I just googleimaged 'Lemmy cyclist' and got this...

I guess that's your answer

 

[Zam_Olyas]

I just googleimaged 'Lemmy cyclist' and got this...

I guess that's your answer

i goggled "lemmy"