Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

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Freddythefrog said:
The newspapers can't even do that.

It Christmas and I am having a grand sort out. I have a big pile of newspapers and magazines I don't throw away. I like to keep them because I hope that, occasionally "truth will out" and the odd thief and their complicit associates in the administration gravy train, who so disfigure sport will get exposed. I found an Observer Sport Monthly for July 2009 I kept for its "Lance comeback" special. It needs to be shown to every 18 year old contemplating a life in sport. I will save the St David of Millardom quotes within it, for another post, suffice to say at that time, the wind the dawg found to blow him so strongly around each and every hairpin of the Ventoux was blowing St David towards Lance, to whom he plighted his fidelity with "Our relationship has always been close". [Where is an icon for - puking into a sick-bag and the contents overfilling and falling onto your feet -when you need it ?]

But back to Wrinkly and the rightness of the free press. Latest addition to my sad pile of newsprint is the Telegraph double page spread with headline screaming "THE BIGGEST DOPING COVER-UP IN ATHLETICS HISTORY". So where has this gone? If we believe the poster on Bike Radar who sent a pm to RaceRadio, RR replied that he already knew the answer to his tweet to Paula Radcliffe when he asked her if it was her name on the list. Her "super aggressive" lawyers have locked down the revealing of FACTS that a whilstleblower tried to expose. It appears that in this case the IAAF establishment have acted with an athlete to make sure we don't get the FACTS. Do I find this unusual? Look at that selfie the idiot Cookson took with dopers Eddie and Gilbert (who I see has several fellow team-mates calling him out). Cookson took it at a symposium for Juniors helping them find their way in the sport. "Look - stealing and cheating pays" it screamed.

Radcliffe, Wiggins, Boardman and now Froome are all major figures in the iconography of UK sport. All are put forward by the press as clean icons not to be tainted by dirty johnny foreigner they thrashed. Belief that whilst PEDs were rampant in their sports, these "stars" can somehow set a collection of records, is suspended. Do I believe any of them are clean ? I don't have a the tiniest belief any of them are anything other than a sham exactly like born-again St David was in July 2009 in his so eloquent love letter to Lance so carefully recorded in the Observer.

I think it is quite simple. Factually, all had committed to their careers with no fall back. I propose they all met their Calvary. They discovered the playing field had a slope on it and the authorities were like Cookson with his seflie - actively promoting the known dopers. Boardman is quoted as being sick of cycling at the end of 1991 and talks of leaving the sport. He had two kids and lived in a two bed terrace with no money. He had just been thrashed at the Pursuit Worlds by riders using the new undetectable drug epo. The choice was give up cycling do more casual labour helping out decorating or "join them". Critically, he also had alongside him an adviser with little to lose but plenty to gain if Boardman took all the risks; a malevolent voice in his ear. Boardman chose "join them" and hasn't it worked out well for Boardman and the "professor" alongside him. The Lotus bike made excellent cover for his wiggo/dawg like improvements, provided one does not look at the comparative improvements achieved by Colin Wallace or Bryan Steel when they were riding it at the time.

Brad was on the fringes of it all. He had won Olympic gold and found out like Boardman before, that this didn't make him rich and so went and lived in the boozer. He was out of it. No future. Undoubtedly his father's end was a vivid signpost to the choices that lay ahead. Brailsford dried him out and like Keen before him, Brailsford had plenty to gain and little to lose, so reinforced the stark choices ahead and gave him a vision of how Wiggo (and Sir David) could make money from this seriously scr**ed up sport. Wiggo went full genius and the rest is history.

As other posters have so eloquently put it Froome was about to lose his contract with Sky. The dream was over. Obscurity and poverty beckoned. Why have a few years as a domestique and walk away to nothing when he too could do even better what Wiggo and Brailsford was doing ? Yes, he should have won in 2012. The 2013 pay-back that saw the defending Tour champ not even take the start line, was awesome to behold. How seriously does Brailsford despise the fans, that he thinks so many cannot see through it ?

For Radcliffe it was the same. At the 93 World Championships she had a 7th; 5th in 95. At the Olympics in 1996 it was a 5th as well. The World Champs in 97 and the CG in 98 brought no spoils. This career was going to end with none of the riches, the Monaco life style, the hobnobbing with "stars" of the day - "look mummy who is that alongside the gallant knight Sir Chris, close by Sir David ?" I don't know about the relationship with her husband but it draws comment elsewhere. Was he taking the role of a Brailsford or Keen, "WE have put X years into this and all you have to do now is ....." You can decide if in 1999, after 6 years of getting her teeth kicked in, Radcliffe found the precursor of "marginal gains" and was able to fine tune her training regime so that she went from "plucky Brit loser" to fastest ever, ever, in the history of humankind, just at a time when epo usage was at its most epic. That this "clean" athlete seems so reluctant to share with the World the science behind why she was able to explain away her "red" readings to so august and determined a body as the IAAF on their relentless search to out the dopers and instead appears, if indeed raceradio is calling it right, and it is her, to instead be resorting to a "highly aggressive legal team" to keep it all under wraps, must be baffling to her apostles.

To those of us who keep old newspapers and pictures of idiot Cookson and his selfies, the Radcliffe silence is not comforting, because she still holds every wrongly gained asset she possesses.

Did they dope ? I am only speculating.

Common sense, held by the majority, as expressed to you by Benotti, is that - "professional cycling is riddled with dopers. Brad is a doper, the dawg is a doper and a lot of the other Brit cyclists are dopers too". Common sense also informs the common person that a real sporting hero is not going to be found with riches and awards overfilling their cup, but will have a very different profile. For a couple, let's keep it Brit centric and look at the pursuit in the period 1989 to 1996. Two Brit riders there stand head and shoulders above the Brit who could win the World TT championship. (For f.s., who in their right mind thinks Boardman could beat them clean ? )

Yes, Wrinkly and the rest of the fanboys, I admire you posting here and the sincerity of your belief. Sadly that belief requires a recalibration.

The saddest piece of the 2009 Observer Lance-fest was a piece by Mike Grisenthwaite, founder of UK charity of Cyclists Fight Cancer. It was a piece of religion backed with "how could so nice and great a World star possibly commit such a fraud ?". Sir Brad, Sir David, Sir Chris, all of these have found the palms laid in their path placed by idiots like Cookson. If you want to run an investigation to detect dopers you would not employ anyone like Cookson in any capacity whatsoever. A fanboy of the worst sort - one who cannot counter an alternative view.
Fantastic post my friend. fantastic.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Freddythefrog said:
British Cycling have cynically followed the same path. All those knighthoods and awards, not just for the riders but the likes of Keen, Sutton, King as well as Cookson and Brailsford.
knighthoods = cancer shields. Will make the threshold required to take down these false gods much greater. The info can get out on the web, but without Murdoch and red-tops and the newsprint industry, will it get out, or will it be hidden like Sir Jimmy Saville for half a century.

I think Radcliffe will be safe. It wont get out. Just like it took Floyd going nuclear to pull down Lance. Lance was a Today Show, the Late Show, the Jay Leno guest athlete. The pop culture athlete. We dont take down Michael Jordan, or Magic Johnson. These athletes live in another stratosphere, where for the most part, they cant be touched. Requires an exception that proves the rule, Floyd going nuclear.

whistleblowers are the exception that proves the rule. then the whistleblower like chelsea manning or edward snowden are defamed.

+ Rob Hayles
+ Rob Hayles
+ Rob Hayles


who does RH work for now? ohhhh, I hear you say, he is Cav's personal assistant? Does his job description include motoman duties?

hematocrit breaches, health test breaches, 3 days before Manchester Worlds in '08.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Freddythefrog said:
I used Stephens at the top because, again, this will take us away from BC/Sky and see that the same confidence trick is present in Australian sport as it is in Brit, American or Russian sport. Stephens is at the heart of Orica Green edge. The guy told us it straight as only an Aussie can. He was clean as a whistle at Festina, had never seen a PED, none of his team-mates had.

indeed. loved this bit. Dear Wiggo <poster that is> will enjoy it to. Ferminal also.

but we need to show AusCycleFan94. she wont.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Freddythefrog said:
But back to Wrinkly and the rightness of the free press. Latest addition to my sad pile of newsprint is the Telegraph double page spread with headline screaming "THE BIGGEST DOPING COVER-UP IN ATHLETICS HISTORY".
I have a few Russian mates, who left in the 80s, and are now ~50 a fair whack older than me.

and I asked about the anecdote on the Russian attache who was doing a study tour thru the US in either Brezhnev or Khrushchev regime(s). And the Soviet apparatchik asked his US envoy/supervisor how the US press managed to publish the same thing everyday, with Pravda we have to bend the arm of the editor.

my mate said this anecdote has more than a truth <ring> to it.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Freddythefrog said:
Brad was on the fringes of it all. He had won Olympic gold and found out like Boardman before,
if McGee had the same prep for Athens that Wiggins did, McGee takes Wiggins down.

I dont think he was clean before, but definitely not the European road pro type of doper, he was just doing a little to even the playing field, not much. I dont buy that premise that some have, that a rider like Froome, or Wiggins, merely flick the switch and go full genius. Indeed they do go full genius, but not from a perfectly clean base.


Freddythefrog you are being formally inducted into The Clinic Twelve.

blackcat will second you.

JV is the chair, we now have 15 members, and i sit on the high secretariat. not the horse.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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A must read from 2009. Prepare to raise an eyebrow or two.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/clean-sky-on-the-horizon

With Garmin-Slipstream and Columbia both spending recourses on internal testing, Sky look set to follow suit although the chances of them working with Don Catlin, the doping expert Garmin and Columbia both use as an independent tester, seem unlikely.
Chris Froome, one of the riders who has signed told Cyclingnews that Sky's clean stance was vital in securing his signature. "To me it goes back to the moral and ethical side of riding. The whole doping side is killing the sport and the authenticity of the racing. How many times do you sit there, see a guy win a race and then see the real winner announced a few weeks later?" said Froome.
"Independent testing has its merits but we have a programme that we are comfortable with. We've presented it to the UCI and they're comfortable with it too. They have recourse that we can use and we can work with them on target testing if we ever have any concerns. We'll work hand-in-hand."
UCI President Pat McQuaid agreed with Brailsford, adding that in his eyes, British Cycling and Sky had the right attitude when it came to clean sport.
And this:
"There has been a lot of discussion between David and the anti-doping department at the UCI on the philosophy of the team. It's a similar to the British track team, who over the years and along with British Cycling, have been advocates of a clean sport. Any of the athletes they deal with, this philosophy is ingrained in them." McQuaid said.
coming from McQuaid in 2009, this is stronger evidence of Sky doping than any positive test could provide.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Robert21 said:
Christophe Bassons take on the current state of pro cycling, taken from his excellent book. 'A Clean Break'. I wonder who he was thinking of when he wrote the first couple of paragraphs? ;)

http://www.amazon.com/Clean-Break-My-Story-ebook/dp/B00KWYKG80
Fearless Greg Lemond said:
Look:
http://www.53x12.com/do/show?page=indepth.view&id=147



I knew I read something like that before, good thing the Aicar test is a treshold test...
JV also talked about Danielson burning carbs, and not fat.

who remembers this?
 
Sep 14, 2011
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thehog said:
Yes, just like Froome, never tested positive.

Until. Riding for BC. EPO they said.
the sceptic said:
Of course. How could he have been doping when there was no evidence?

You both believe JTL was doping for those two wins so less of the sarcasm please. Maybe you can explain why you have deliberately twisted the facts to suit your own arguments. I won't expect a sensible reply.
 
May 10, 2009
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the sceptic said:
Of course. How could he have been doping when there was no evidence?
haha! I like what you did there - to try and explain and defend Sky, they get tied up in knots.
 
May 10, 2009
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Bernie's eyesore said:
When did I defend Sky? Are you suggesting JTL won Haut Var clean as well?
well what evidence is there that he was doping there? anyone who watched it could tell it was superior tactics and bike handling by JTL.
 
Digger said:
well what evidence is there that he was doping there? anyone who watched it could tell it was superior tactics and bike handling by JTL.
He didn't climb as fast as Lance so couldn't be doping. Plus he worked really hard that year in training. Turned off the power meter he didn't have and rode an extra 2 hours.
 
May 10, 2009
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thehog said:
He didn't climb as fast as Lance so couldn't be doping. Plus he worked really hard that year in training. Turned off the power meter he didn't have and rode an extra 2 hours.
He alright did something very innovative regarding his diet...he cut carbs...that's what the genius nutritionist cound got froome to do...now it's all the rage.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Digger said:
yes!! because he was part Inuit
yes! great memory Digger.

Danielson part Inuit!!! blubber, only processes phats and Biggie Smalls, or Biggy Smalls.

@theHog how about this!

reminds me of a footballer from Essendon Bombers, Dean Rioli, never met a fried turtle he did not like


if its not gluten free, its whale and seal phat (sic).

JV transcended marginal gains, he never gave them a weasel word <tell>, he just seeded the devices
 
blackcat said:
yes! great memory Digger.

Danielson part Inuit!!! blubber, only processes phats and Biggie Smalls, or Biggy Smalls.

@theHog how about this!

reminds me of a footballer from Essendon Bombers, Dean Rioli, never met a fried turtle he did not like

if its not gluten free, its whale and seal phat (sic).

JV transcended marginal gains, he never gave them a weasel word <tell>, he just seeded the devices
If Kohli can put on 150 today it will prove spicey food will be the new marginal gain.

Watto, still on the pies?
 
Dec 7, 2010
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blackcat said:
JV also talked about Danielson burning carbs, and not fat.

who remembers this?
http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest-news/jonathan-vaughters-on-the-enigmatic-tom-danielson-64053
Tom Danielson in 20 per cent Eskimo in his heritage, and this probably contributes to what I can only describe as a uinique metabolism. He has a strong tendancy to store fat, not use it as fuel, if untrained.

You can see this in any photo of Tommy D. He can never get down to the vein popping five per cent fat you see in some riders. He just cannot do it, not matter how much he starves or trains. In addition, this metabolism tends to strongly favour sugar as fuel.

When Tom eats carbohydrate, his body wants to just use it up as fuel, then shut down, and store all the fat ingested as body mass. I suppose this is to protect against arctic winds, but it’s very difficult to work with in a cyclist. :D Not only does his body want to be chubby, naturally, it also gets the hunger knock very easily, as naturally, his body doesn’t like to use its fat stores as fuel. So, he’s a rider that has to eat a lot to keep from getting hunger flat, but gets fat, quite easily, from eating a lot. Tough.
 
Sep 14, 2011
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So, given that Digger, thehog and the sceptic have all agreed that JTL's ridiculous transformation was achieved 100% dope free, what reason is there to believe that other riders (specifically Froome and Wiggins), did not undergo similar transformations clean?
 
Bernie's eyesore said:
So, given that Digger, thehog and the sceptic have all agreed that JTL's ridiculous transformation was achieved 100% dope free, what reason is there to believe that other riders (specifically Froome and Wiggins), did not undergo similar transformations clean?
I think they were being sarcastic.
BUT one must agree that he was doping BOTH @ Endura when he won big time in 2012 and @ Sky whey the bio passport caught him out
 

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