Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

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Dec 11, 2013
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sniper said:
if over the past two to decades or so you have been in the lucky possession of a television and/or had access to newspapers, you'd start with the working assumption that bobbins' allegations are correct and that Sky doped to win 2 TdFs in a row.

I urge you to show us some photographic evidence of that cave you've been living in. Otherwise I'll assume you're here to troll.
No

That's stupid.

On that basis, any poster could claim inside knowledge to accuse any rider of doping and anyone who challenged it would be a troll.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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TailWindHome said:
I was attempting to have a discussion about the alleged doping. Bobbins introduced (not for the first time) the suggestion of a previous incident regarding a back dated TUE, I asked him for further details which he declined on the basis of protecting people close to the team.

Now here's the question.

As someone avocating discussion about the evidence why aren't you interested in this?



How did Wiggins lose the weight and retain power?

Careful management of calories in versus calories out.

Cyclist does a thing
There's a drug that helps with that thing
Cyclist must have taken drug

You come across as an intelligent fella, you can see yourself how weak that is as 'evidence'. Have you anything more to support the assertion that the weight loss was acheived illegally?
Athletes have never achieved that feat before without drugs (or show us somebody who did), so it's likely Wiggins used drugs as well.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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TailWindHome said:
No

That's stupid.

On that basis, any poster could claim inside knowledge to accuse any rider of doping and anyone who challenged it would be a troll.
your world seems pretty black and white.
Bobbins has shown time and again that he knows a lot about sky and has links.
He, s likely telling the truth.
This is about using the active part of your brain cells.
 
Dec 11, 2013
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sniper said:
your world seems pretty black and white.
Bobbins has shown time and again that he knows a lot about sky and has links.
He, s likely telling the truth.
This is about using the active part of your brain cells.
Great
Give us the details and we'll all know.

Seems fair, no?
 
Sep 20, 2009
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sniper said:
your world seems pretty black and white.
Bobbins has shown time and again that he knows a lot about sky and has links.
He, s likely telling the truth.
This is about using the active part of your brain cells.
Well no he has't. He has been asked to provide names of athletes and the alleged infraction. These are easy to respond to i.e. I heard A (the athlete) was pulled from competing due to B (drug taking). No team member or BC staff is involved. It's simple give details or don't say anything!
 
Oct 16, 2010
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TailWindHome said:
Great
Give us the details and we'll all know.

Seems fair, no?
Again, use the active part of your brain cells and you'll come to comprehend why he doesn't.
But then again, feel free to assume he's lying. Your choice. People using their brains will continue to thinks he's probably telling the truth.
 
Dec 11, 2013
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sniper said:
Again, use the active part of your brain cells and you'll come to comprehend why he doesn't.
But then again, feel free to assume he's lying. Your choice. People using their brains will continue to thinks he's probably telling the truth.
I'm not assuming he's lying.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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timmers said:
Well no he has't. He has been asked to provide names of athletes and the alleged infraction. These are easy to respond to i.e. I heard A (the athlete) was pulled from competing due to B (drug taking). No team member or BC staff is involved. It's simple give details or don't say anything!
If you don't want him to say anything, put him on ignore.
 
I can understand why bobbins is cautious on these, but I'm interested in hearing more. Maybe the race in question and the drug in question without the riders name. And the 3 ooc misses sound interesting.

It would be nice to expand on these things a bit otherwise unfortunately it does start to look like a claim that cant be backed up (which I'm not saying it is).

Also I have seen Sky & cortisone use mentioned (pretty sure on here) and then the "go and look for yourself, its all out there" retort when people ask for more. Well I cant find it despite my googling. Could someone provide some links?
 
Aug 2, 2012
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well?

sniper said:
your world seems pretty black and white.
Bobbins has shown time and again that he knows a lot about sky and has links.
He, s likely telling the truth.
This is about using the active part of your brain cells.
well? that's a very insulting post.................if evidence is to be presented

it must be substantiated and the person offering that evidence must

accept questions to validate that evidence

Mark L
 
Oct 16, 2010
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TailWindHome said:
I'm not assuming he's lying.
Good, because I see little reason why he would be lying, unless he's a disgruntled former employee with an axe to grind like all those former usps employees.:rolleyes:

Now, do you believe in the saying that where there's smoke there is fire?
 
Dec 11, 2013
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ebandit said:
well? that's a very insulting post.................if evidence is to be presented

it must be substantiated and the person offering that evidence must

accept questions to validate that evidence

Mark L

What you can't do is mock the people from whom you are withholding the evidence.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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ebandit said:
well? that's a very insulting post.................if evidence is to be presented

it must be substantiated and the person offering that evidence must

accept questions to validate that evidence

Mark L
1. No it must not.
2. he accepts questions and has answered. You don't accept the answer, that's your problem.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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What are you guys so wound up about anyway? I tough the clinic didn't have any impact outside the clinic.
easy to out Bobbins on ignore if you don't want to hear what he has to say.
 
Dec 11, 2013
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sniper said:
What are you guys so wound up about anyway? I tough the clinic didn't have any impact outside the clinic.
easy to out Bobbins on ignore if you don't want to hear what he has to say.
I want to hear what he has to say.
But it's of no value without detail.
 
Claims made for or against Sky in the Clinic all end up hot air anyway. The discussions are like a bunch of blind soldiers with scatter-guns firing at each other for years already decided what their opinion is and never winning.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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ebandit said:
fair enough.................but then it may be dismissed as hearsay

Mark L
yes, you may dismiss it as hearsay.
just stop telling me and others to dismiss it as well.
 
sniper said:
Bobbins has shown time and again that he knows a lot about sky and has links.
Has he? When?

Here's how sources work. They impart information that is not available in the public domain and if that information subsequently turns out to be true then that source gains credibility. Until that happens they are regarded with scepticism.

Now what 'scoop' has bobbins provided that turned out to be true (doesn't have to be doping related)? At the moment he's like someone writing a horoscope - keeping it broad and detail free so he can take the credit if a vague match occurs. His info is all 'friend of a friend' stuff anyway. Third hand rumours.
 
sniper said:
your world seems pretty black and white.
Bobbins has shown time and again that he knows a lot about sky and has links.
He, s likely telling the truth.
This is about using the active part of your brain cells.
Really, I have posted previously how I have had discussions with a few people who have links to Garmin. The info gleamed from them has been JV has a geuine anti-doping ethic/programme within his team. This despite being told about many of the other faults of JV/Garmin.

Why would I be less likely to be telling the truth than Bobbins. Do you accept that Garmin are a clean team the way you accept that Boobins is telling the truth on SKY?
 
Sep 29, 2012
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pmcg76 said:
Really, I have posted previously how I have had discussions with a few people who have links to Garmin. The info gleamed from them has been JV has a geuine anti-doping ethic/programme within his team. This despite being told about many of the other faults of JV/Garmin.

Why would I be less likely to be telling the truth than Bobbins. Do you accept that Garmin are a clean team the way you accept that Boobins is telling the truth on SKY?
I'll accept the team are not doping their riders - but I was under the impression even the most jaded disbeliever held a similar opinion.

What I can't accept is that JV knows for eg Von Hoff is clean, when he saw him 3 times in 2 years. Extrapolate that out to every rider. Mirror confidence in ABP to the internal testing.

I do not accept Ryder won the Giro clean.
 
Sep 29, 2012
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I feel what Bobbins shared re: backdated TUE is in line with Zorzolli's most recent actions, and a continuation of previous actions. Why would he change?

I believe what Bobbins shared is plausible.

Far more plausible than either of Sky's TdF wins.

You do a sanity check, as with anything. I find the lack of detail frustrating, no question, but if he could tell I am sure he would - so to me it's pretty much pointless to even ask, but I do understand people wanting to. Particularly if they are in or look like they are in the Sky camp.

I personally feel Sniper's response is currently a bit overbearing but again - not a mod and not sure sharing that is of any benefit.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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pmcg76 said:
Really, I have posted previously how I have had discussions with a few people who have links to Garmin. The info gleamed from them has been JV has a geuine anti-doping ethic/programme within his team. This despite being told about many of the other faults of JV/Garmin.

Why would I be less likely to be telling the truth than Bobbins. Do you accept that Garmin are a clean team the way you accept that Boobins is telling the truth on SKY?
As DW says, nobody has claimed Garmin are proactively doping their riders.

We all know Garmin have an internal testing program which is sold as an antidoping program.
We also know from Prentice's leaked email a few years ago that even to the riders and staff members it is sold as an antidoping program.
So no surprise the guys you spoke to say that.

You really think Ryder won that Giro clean and Wiggo got that 4th place clean?
Or could it be that your insider contacts don't know the full story?
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Dear Wiggo said:
I feel what Bobbins shared re: backdated TUE is in line with Zorzolli's most recent actions, and a continuation of previous actions. Why would he change?

I believe what Bobbins shared is plausible.

Far more plausible than either of Sky's TdF wins.

You do a sanity check, as with anything. I find the lack of detail frustrating, no question, but if he could tell I am sure he would - so to me it's pretty much pointless to even ask, but I do understand people wanting to. Particularly if they are in or look like they are in the Sky camp.

I personally feel Sniper's response is currently a bit overbearing but again - not a mod and not sure sharing that is of any benefit.
all of this (including my response being overbearing, let's call it a lack of eloquence)

edit: i don't feel Bobbins' posts can be characterized as lacking detail.
rather, he provides detail. Not all, but more than we had before.
 

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