- Jul 21, 2012
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Feels like I just woke up in 2012.Beech Mtn said:Page after page questioning or defending bobbins' posts and credibility. Reminds me a little of the scrutiny Race Radio faced in the Lance years.
Feels like I just woke up in 2012.Beech Mtn said:Page after page questioning or defending bobbins' posts and credibility. Reminds me a little of the scrutiny Race Radio faced in the Lance years.
i knew someone would come back to hunt me with that sockpuppet thing.pmcg76 said:Funny to see you accuse others of hypocrisy when you have been caught lying twice in the last few days.
Firstly claiming you had no idea what a sockpuppet was when you were banned for being a sockpuppet. You joined here in 2010 when Armstrong sockpuppets were everywhere and getting banned, so to claim ignorance is redundant.
this is black-white thinking, i've seen you go down that route more often.Today you said that nobody here claims JV is doping his team, even though you claimed Girona was a doping hub for Garmin numerous times. I think Benotti claims JV is doping his team as have plenty of others over time.
I never claimed otherwise. I am as willing to believe what Bobbins is posting as what I have heard about Garmin. I don't know how that makes me ill informed. On the other hand you seem willing to believe one but not the other which is just confirmation bias.sniper said:thanks, now that's clearly stating your opinion, although it strikes me as a particulrly ill informed opinion, which is odd for someone so knowledgeable on the history of cycling like you.
let recent history be your guide.pmcg76 said:I never claimed otherwise. I am as willing to believe what Bobbins is posting as what I have heard about Garmin. I don't know how that makes me ill informed. On the other hand you seem willing to believe one but not the other which is just confirmation bias.
sniper said:i knew some bot would come back to hunt me with that sockpuppet thing.
didn't know it would be you, but fair game i guess.
this is black-white thinking, i've seen you go down that route more often.
I'll spell it out for you: I think it's no coincidence Garmin are in Girona (indeed doping related). I don't think JV dopes his riders.
If you see a contradiction there, i can't help you any further.
it's painful seeing you struggle.pmcg76 said:Sorry sniper, I cannot quite reach your low level of thinking.
JV is not doping his team but he was the one who set the team up in Girona and made it their team HQ.
Let me see if I can get this, JV is not personally doping his team but set them up in Girona for others to dope so he can claim no involvement all the while knowing they are doping.
You are still making zero sense and I know there is nothing in those threads that explain it any better.sniper said:it's painful seeing you struggle.
For more nuance, I refer to the dedicated JV/Garmin/Ryder threads.
more generally, how exactly teams and individual riders dope these days, only the teams and individual riders know.
fair points.pmcg76 said:You are still making zero sense and I know there is nothing in those threads that explain it any better.
It must be hard to tell so may lies and half-truths that you cannot keep up with them.
And yet you are able to follow cycling with all the half truths and so maNy lies.....chapeau, aren't you a great lad!pmcg76 said:You are still making zero sense and I know there is nothing in those threads that explain it any better.
It must be hard to tell so may lies and half-truths that you cannot keep up with them.
What exactly would leinders do at team sky besides setting up doping? That was all he was good for.ebandit said:except it never was a secret.............so if team sky had no reason to keep
employment of leinders secret how likely is it that a doping programme
was being run?
Mark L
My favourite quote answers this perfectly:Glenn_Wilson said:What exactly would leinders do at team sky besides setting up doping? That was all he was good for.
Yeah, you keep telling yourself that...samhocking said:My favourite quote answers this perfectly:
"Brailsford hired Leinders and then allowed him to single-handedly rip up the Sky ProCycling business plan, get all the medical team (with their successful, untainted careers) and cyclists (with Olympic medals hanging round their necks) to potentially throw away their futures and tarnish the reputation of British Cycling to help Wiggins to win the Tour by doping. On the eve of the London 2012 games. As I say, it doesn’t add up to being even a remotely logical decision."
he did it all at Rabo:Glenn_Wilson said:What exactly would leinders do at team sky besides setting up doping? That was all he was good for.
Operation of Peter Kennaugh's bathroom scale.Glenn_Wilson said:What exactly would leinders do at team sky besides setting up doping? That was all he was good for.
Leinder's most famous doping experiment was Michael Rasmussen.sniper said:he did it all at Rabo:
- purchase
- administering
- see who glows, i.e. help fly below the radar
- TUEs
- contacts with Zorzoli (overlaps with the previous)
- treat saddle sore
some would claim only the latter skill was sought after by Sky.
more seriously: i've heard posters claim he put (only or mainly) the latter three skills to use at Sky. But that's speculating, and he may have been more 'deeply' involved with individual riders of course.
Anyway, there's no way Brailsford et al. didn't know about Leinders' role at Rabo (especially as Geert had been so closely involved with both Menchov and Rasmussen, two riders whose doping was well known in and around the peloton), so indeed it's difficult to fathom he was hired for anything else than PED-related issues.
exactly! we need to find out........................but if you hire a doctor toGlenn_Wilson said:What exactly would leinders do at team sky besides setting up doping? That was all he was good for.
I will, because it's based on more sound logic and evidence than simply saying, he must have doped Wiggins because he doped Rasmussen. Show me the money and i'll change my mind.42x16ss said:Yeah, you keep telling yourself that...
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Hmmm, you do know Rasmussen didn't fail a test right? He got busted by accident when a journo saw him training in the Dolomites instead of Mexico...samhocking said:I will, because it's based on more sound logic and evidence than simply saying, he must have doped Wiggins because he doped Rasmussen. Show me the money and i'll change my mind.
He had missed a fair few OOC tests though.42x16ss said:Hmmm, you do know Rasmussen didn't fail a test right? He got busted by accident when a journo saw him training in the Dolomites instead of Mexico...
He took the riders weights in the morning. Doctors are good at that. Regular people are not so good at reading a number on a weight scale.Glenn_Wilson said:What exactly would leinders do at team sky besides setting up doping? That was all he was good for.
IME Skybots don't care about evidence one wit. Incontrovertible proof or GTFO seems the usual request.Wallace and Gromit said:He had missed a fair few OOC tests though.
I think you're missing the point somewhat. I think Sam was asking for evidence that Wiggo was doping rather than you simply concluding this from the Leinders link to both Wiggo and Rasmussen and Rasmussen's doping.
Can you list those with so called "with their successful, untainted careers"?samhocking said:My favourite quote answers this perfectly:
"Brailsford hired Leinders and then allowed him to single-handedly rip up the Sky ProCycling business plan, get all the medical team (with their successful, untainted careers) and cyclists (with Olympic medals hanging round their necks) to potentially throw away their futures and tarnish the reputation of British Cycling to help Wiggins to win the Tour by doping. On the eve of the London 2012 games. As I say, it doesn’t add up to being even a remotely logical decision."
There once was a clinic thread based on track riders who became good road/GT riders.Benotti69 said:Can you list those with so called "with their successful, untainted careers"?
Ripping up successful training methods? Is that not what Tim 'Beard' Kerrison has done?
Can you point to a modern Olympic gold medal pursuiter who won a GT?
Can you point to a modern cyclist who achieved peak form for 7 months, March through to September, like Wiggins?
If you think Sky are clean, how did they beat Astana using Dr Ferrari?
of course, if the proof they are so desperate to see actually existed (positive tests), I think they would be able to find it on their own and wouldn't need to consult the clinic.Dear Wiggo said:IME Skybots don't care about evidence one wit. Incontrovertible proof or GTFO seems the usual request.
So Wigans is in good company.thehog said:There once was a clinic thread based on track riders who became good road/GT riders.
I think Ferrari client Berzin was the last prior to Wiggins.