Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

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Re: Re:

sniper said:
pastronef said:
sniper said:
sure, but as mentioned often before, it's not Etixx who've been screaming marginal gains off the rooftops.
put differently, they've not been insulting the brain of the average cycling fan as much as Sky have.
and again, the example with the bikes is just one of many symptoms, the sum of which show a compelling pattern of sky fanboys with typewriters left right and centre.
such a pattern is hard to identify wrt Etixx, but correct me if wrong.
ok ok.
so what teams need to do is keep silent, while employing Ibarguren Taus and Van Mol (yes, and Leinders too for Sky) and fans will be happy.
just dont scream marginal gains, and use the fuel you like, and you´ll be ok.
my brain is fine, the average cycling fan dont need the clinic to defend himself. when/if Sky will go down, the average Sky fan will open his eye.
marginal gains are for blind sky fans in UK. here in the clinic we should have a laugh about that narrative, not getting annoyed about.
personally speaking, the hypocrisy is what kills cycling.
Cookson, Garmin and Sky and the Sky favorable press (Walsh, Moore, Guardian, etc.) are currently at the forefront in that area.
I have as little sympathy for Cookson and Vaughters as I have for Brailsford.
I don't get similar insults from Lefevere, or at least less so.
Lefevere, Ibarguren and Van Mol show that there is no such thing as a new clean generation. And I don't remember Lefevere shoving that myth down our throats either.

Sky are doing a USPS on so many levels. We've been there discussed that.
nice post, I understand.
I think it´s a problem of things perceived. I dont feel anyone shoving anything down my throat. I know there is no clean generation.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Re: Re:

pastronef said:
sniper said:
pastronef said:
sniper said:
sure, but as mentioned often before, it's not Etixx who've been screaming marginal gains off the rooftops.
put differently, they've not been insulting the brain of the average cycling fan as much as Sky have.
and again, the example with the bikes is just one of many symptoms, the sum of which show a compelling pattern of sky fanboys with typewriters left right and centre.
such a pattern is hard to identify wrt Etixx, but correct me if wrong.
ok ok.
so what teams need to do is keep silent, while employing Ibarguren Taus and Van Mol (yes, and Leinders too for Sky) and fans will be happy.
just dont scream marginal gains, and use the fuel you like, and you´ll be ok.
my brain is fine, the average cycling fan dont need the clinic to defend himself. when/if Sky will go down, the average Sky fan will open his eye.
marginal gains are for blind sky fans in UK. here in the clinic we should have a laugh about that narrative, not getting annoyed about.
personally speaking, the hypocrisy is what kills cycling.
Cookson, Garmin and Sky and the Sky favorable press (Walsh, Moore, Guardian, etc.) are currently at the forefront in that area.
I have as little sympathy for Cookson and Vaughters as I have for Brailsford.
I don't get similar insults from Lefevere, or at least less so.
Lefevere, Ibarguren and Van Mol show that there is no such thing as a new clean generation. And I don't remember Lefevere shoving that myth down our throats either.

Sky are doing a USPS on so many levels. We've been there discussed that.
nice post, I understand.
I think it´s a problem of things perceived. I dont feel anyone shoving anything down my throat. I know there is no clean generation.
very fair point, and you're certainly right, some including myself get too emotional/worked up about the whole circus. It's good to be reminded of that.
 
Re: Re:

pastronef said:
LaFlorecita said:
wrinklyvet said:
is it really true that journalists have to be always objective? And if it is, does accepting hospitality prevent this? And further, if so, is Team Sky innovative and groundbreaking in offering it? Because if not, what's this sniping all about?
The sniping is about journo's acting like fanboys. It's not necessary to report on Sky's change of car sponsor for 3 days straight and it's also not necessary to have seperate "exclusive" photo galleries for each rider's bike. If it happens once, no problem, but when a pattern can be found it becomes an issue for some people. Only Sky gets such ridiculous attention from the media and now it's clear why :rolleyes: Every time a team Sky member farts a journalist is ready to write a puff piece about it.

Flo, here are 2 Etixx team bikes on cyclingnews.com. is it fine to have 2 Etixx bikes photo galleries?
yes, one is a Tarmac and the other is a Venge. but people would have moaned anyway if there were a Dogma and a cobble-Dogma or a Bolide

Jan 11: Kittel´s bike http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/marcel-kittels-2016-specialized-eqs-venge-gallery/
Jan 13: D.Martin´s bike http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/dan-martins-specialized-s-works-tarmac-gallery/

The Sky bikes were: Jan 11 Froome´s, Jan 12 Kwiato
It would barely be noticed and you know it. Two DIFFERENT bike models justify two different articles in anyone's mind. Look back over the articles over the years, how often have two identical bikes, from the same team, whose only difference is size, been covered a day apart until now?

I'm going with never. Even if you compare the articles on say, Kittel's and Sagan's new bikes, there's one in standard team colours and another in a revolting OTT WC paint job and they were separated by a week.
 
Re: Re:

sniper said:
pastronef said:
LaFlorecita said:
wrinklyvet said:
is it really true that journalists have to be always objective? And if it is, does accepting hospitality prevent this? And further, if so, is Team Sky innovative and groundbreaking in offering it? Because if not, what's this sniping all about?
The sniping is about journo's acting like fanboys. It's not necessary to report on Sky's change of car sponsor for 3 days straight and it's also not necessary to have seperate "exclusive" photo galleries for each rider's bike. If it happens once, no problem, but when a pattern can be found it becomes an issue for some people. Only Sky gets such ridiculous attention from the media and now it's clear why :rolleyes: Every time a team Sky member farts a journalist is ready to write a puff piece about it.

Flo, here are 2 Etixx team bikes on cyclingnews.com. is it fine to have 2 Etixx bikes photo galleries?
yes, one is a Tarmac and the other is a Venge. but people would have moaned anyway if there were a Dogma and a cobble-Dogma or a Bolide

Jan 11: Kittel´s bike http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/marcel-kittels-2016-specialized-eqs-venge-gallery/
Jan 13: D.Martin´s bike http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/dan-martins-specialized-s-works-tarmac-gallery/

The Sky bikes were: Jan 11 Froome´s, Jan 12 Kwiato
i thought it was a great (couple of) post(s) by Flo.
It's about the pattern that is emerging, which is compelling.
Etixx don't come close to Sky in terms of (quantity and type of) media coverage.
And they seem to be getting the most coverage after Sky, along with Sagan - as World Champ and such a high profile rider in his own right.

Meanwhile, the silence is almost deafening on teams like Lampre, Movistar, Lotto-NL, IAM, Dimension Data and even Orica, considering how many of their riders just rode national championships and the Bay Crits.
 
Oct 10, 2015
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Re: Re:

42x16ss said:
Meanwhile, the silence is almost deafening on teams like Lampre, Movistar, Lotto-NL, IAM, Dimension Data and even Orica, considering how many of their riders just rode national championships and the Bay Crits.
The problem is, none of those teams have changed their supplier of team cars. Had they done that, then front page news would be guaranteed. These are the important issues that cycling fans need to know about.

I wonder what happened to the fleet of Cadillacs that Michael Ball was so fond of?
 
Re:

The Carrot said:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/brailsford-calls-on-cookson-to-implement-data-release-system/

But what about the pseudo scientists? :eek:
You have to love this. Lets show everyone our doped to the gills numbers to prove we are legit. Pffff.
 
Re: Re:

Jacques de Molay said:
42x16ss said:
Meanwhile, the silence is almost deafening on teams like Lampre, Movistar, Lotto-NL, IAM, Dimension Data and even Orica, considering how many of their riders just rode national championships and the Bay Crits.
The problem is, none of those teams have changed their supplier of team cars. Had they done that, then front page news would be guaranteed. These are the important issues that cycling fans need to know about.

I wonder what happened to the fleet of Cadillacs that Michael Ball was so fond of?
You must remember the glut of articles talking about their team bus. The same as the rest of the team busses apart from when it was impounded but that didn't get reported. The team was even giving guided tours of the bloody thing at races. The mystery and awe at which people spoke of the bus was ridiculous. Even the dumb fukc eurosport fanboy commentators would go on about it.

This is the kind of tame media that the team has. USPS blacklisted and bullied people, Team Sky look after them so well with bikes, holidays and jollys at races that no journalist could possibly believe that the team could do anything naughty and certainly won't try to chase up any possibly dodgyness.
 
Oct 10, 2015
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Re: Re:

bobbins said:
You must remember the glut of articles talking about their team bus. The same as the rest of the team busses apart from when it was impounded but that didn't get reported. The team was even giving guided tours of the bloody thing at races. The mystery and awe at which people spoke of the bus was ridiculous. Even the dumb fukc eurosport fanboy commentators would go on about it.
Would that be the same bus that "reporters" were required to wash their hands before entering?

Yup. I do remember those stories. :D

It's very important to have clean hands before entering a Team Sky bus. Because once out on the road, that dirty, filthy road, lined with fans who spit and throw various substances, and all the other sick and sweaty riders, and bikes and bottles that are handled by numerous other people, there are no germs. None. :)

It's only those unsanitary, ebola-carrying, tuberculoid journalist who pose a risk to riders health.

Actually, considering how common sickness is within the peloton, I'm surprised that the media doesn't turn the tables and insist that the rider's be the ones scrubbing up before interviews and press conferences.
 
Re:

harryh said:
Some teams (and riders) are more interesting than some others, as even this thread shows :)
Yes, wrt doping, Froome and Sky are much more interesting that other teams and riders. Meanwhile, in the Pro road racing forum section, a certain rider's thread is miles ahead of any other team or rider discussion thread, both in terms of views and posts :) Clearly that rider is way more interesting than those others :)
 
Re: when in england

ebandit said:
harryh said:
Some teams (and riders) are more interesting than some others, as even this thread shows :)
an english language site..........with more articles on a british team.......whatever next?

.......anyone unhappy...........why not talk talk.............italian

Mark L
English ........................................
is the universal.......................................... language.
 
May 26, 2010
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Re: when in england

ebandit said:
harryh said:
Some teams (and riders) are more interesting than some others, as even this thread shows :)
an english language site..........with more articles on a british team.......whatever next?

.......anyone unhappy...........why not talk talk.............italian

Mark L
There is a reason Sky gets more written about them in here than Cannondale, BMC, or any other team for that matter. You know the why and it gets repeated regularly as the fanboys keep moaning about so much so called 'anti-sky' posts, when the truth is Brailsford & Co put themselves front and centre and invited this.

Here'a little article outlining why they get the flak they oh so truly deserve.

http://www.stickybottle.com/blogs/opinion-has-team-sky-kept-the-promises-it-made-on-doping/

Keep......trying.........the deflection.............and.............obfuscation.............one.........day........it........might.............have.........an................impact...........
 
Re: Re:

bobbins said:
You must remember the glut of articles talking about their team bus. The same as the rest of the team busses apart from when it was impounded but that didn't get reported. The team was even giving guided tours of the bloody thing at races. The mystery and awe at which people spoke of the bus was ridiculous. Even the dumb fukc eurosport fanboy commentators would go on about it.

This is the kind of tame media that the team has. USPS blacklisted and bullied people, Team Sky look after them so well with bikes, holidays and jollys at races that no journalist could possibly believe that the team could do anything naughty and certainly won't try to chase up any possibly dodgyness.
e.g. https://twitter.com/Kenny_Pryde/status/687559634513752065.
 
Re:

doperhopper said:
Great Reverse Transformation coming... let's see whether marginal gains work also the other way, not only TTer -> climber

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/landa-searching-for-time-trial-improvements-ahead-of-giro-ditalia
My God, it's happening again:

“Here everyone is looking for marginal gains,” says Landa, conjuring up images of coaches, mechanics and brand managers going around expectantly uprooting cushions on the sofas in the hotel lobby. “[It’s] the little details, the small things we can do better.”
 
Re: Re:

Bronstein said:
bobbins said:
You must remember the glut of articles talking about their team bus. The same as the rest of the team busses apart from when it was impounded but that didn't get reported. The team was even giving guided tours of the bloody thing at races. The mystery and awe at which people spoke of the bus was ridiculous. Even the dumb fukc eurosport fanboy commentators would go on about it.

This is the kind of tame media that the team has. USPS blacklisted and bullied people, Team Sky look after them so well with bikes, holidays and jollys at races that no journalist could possibly believe that the team could do anything naughty and certainly won't try to chase up any possibly dodgyness.
e.g. https://twitter.com/Kenny_Pryde/status/687559634513752065.
gifts ok, gifts.

brand managing. branding, sponsor requests.

everybody during the media ride was wearing Kask and Rapha. you see pics with the journos wearing those 2 brands, that happen to be Team Sky sponsors.
the cost for them is not 300 pounds to produce a helmet and jersey/shorts. much lower.
have other teams thought about that? again, good marketing

brand management, and easy advertising

they rode spare Pinarello bikes too. no, they did not get them as a gift ;)

as a dirty team, that´s one of the few sides of their PR management they manage well.
the other sides not very much :p
 
Oct 16, 2010
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i think it's much more a criticism of (and attempt at understanding) the miserable british journalistic coverage of sky, less a criticism of sky themselves. fair game to them.
 
Re: when in england

ebandit said:
harryh said:
Some teams (and riders) are more interesting than some others, as even this thread shows :)
an english language site..........with more articles on a british team.......whatever next?

.......anyone unhappy...........why not talk talk.............italian

Mark L
Excellent....... so where........ are the articles..... on other English speaking teams..... such as Orica........ Dimension Data, BMC...... and Cannondale.........?
 
Mar 13, 2009
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I wanna see someone do a working thesis on

marginal "gains" as a negative economy.

I think brailsford should be channeling all his energies, and they are profuse his energies, ask Fran, I think brail as I read him, should be channeling all energies into massive gains, and PED heuristic research with Team Sky ProCyling...
 
Mar 13, 2009
16,856
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Re: Re:

pastronef said:
Bronstein said:
bobbins said:
You must remember the glut of articles talking about their team bus. The same as the rest of the team busses apart from when it was impounded but that didn't get reported. The team was even giving guided tours of the bloody thing at races. The mystery and awe at which people spoke of the bus was ridiculous. Even the dumb fukc eurosport fanboy commentators would go on about it.

This is the kind of tame media that the team has. USPS blacklisted and bullied people, Team Sky look after them so well with bikes, holidays and jollys at races that no journalist could possibly believe that the team could do anything naughty and certainly won't try to chase up any possibly dodgyness.
e.g. https://twitter.com/Kenny_Pryde/status/687559634513752065.
gifts ok, gifts.

brand managing. branding, sponsor requests.

everybody during the media ride was wearing Kask and Rapha. you see pics with the journos wearing those 2 brands, that happen to be Team Sky sponsors.
the cost for them is not 300 pounds to produce a helmet and jersey/shorts. much lower.
have other teams thought about that? again, good marketing

brand management, and easy advertising

they rode spare Pinarello bikes too. no, they did not get them as a gift ;)

as a dirty team, that´s one of the few sides of their PR management they manage well.
the other sides not very much :p
Riis did the movie Overcoming before the others, he had even employed the auteur Leni Riefenstahl to make the film.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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as Helmut put so pithily

Look, I'm a fan of professional cycling not despite the doping but in large part because of it. The doping makes it real. Not the performances. The performances are unreal. But when an athlete gets caught up in an investigation or pisses hot, that’s when things get real. That’s when all parties involved go into crisis mode, spinning truthiness, marginal gains, special diets and high cadence. People’s livelihoods and reputations hang in the balance. Millions of dollars at stake. And it’s all based on a lie.

High drama. You can't make this stuff up
 
Re:

harryh said:
Some teams (and riders) are more interesting than some others, as even this thread shows :)
It seems so. I guess that the problem is with us fans for wanting news on teams that have been racing already like Orica, Dimension Data, BMC, Drapac and Avanti instead of Sky's new cars, Landa and Kwiatkowski's new TT positions or Kwiatkowski and Froome's indentical new bikes :rolleyes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYAuR5bkIlQ
 
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