Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[LaFlorecita]

I really don't mind them wearing helmets indoors, nothing is a fashion faux pas as long as you r.o.c.k. it with self-confidence. I do mind their useless journalism.

 

[Campervan man]

Re: Sky

Can anyone recall the Tour last year and comments, reports that were made by journalists regarding angry, jealous French fans toward Sky?

Team Sky principal Brailsford told the daily sports newspaper L’Equipe on Sunday that a Frenchman winning the race “needs to happen” and that he “would like to win with a French rider”.
.........
Brailsford did say that the team is “British and performance based” meaning he wont just sign a Frenchman to try and fulfill an impossible dream if he can win with a Brit.
......

http://cyclingquotes.com/news/brailsford_plays_down_french_tour_winner_dream/?urlPath=news/brailsford_plays_down_french_tour_winner_dream/?acceptCookie=1#WKLLVImcgSo7qGZW.97

when he started running the win with a frenchman, he got me.
I thought he was serious and that they were going to ditch Froomey.

Something may have happened to spoil the plan, or it was just PR to keep the french happy.
Or perhaps both.

in addition, there was quite a bit of British press about French fans hating on Froome, with the obvious implication this hate was borne out of jealousy.
deja vu.

All straight out of the Armstrong press relations play book. Keep the press onside, invoke the patriotic national press against the bitter foreigners and soon any thoughts of doping or even using non approved wheels at the olympics will be last weeks news.

Control the press and you can more or less do what you like.

Thats what I was alluding to.... Bitter Frenchies, however from a fans perspective who spent 10 days at the Tour mainly Alpine stages I saw a lot of anti Froome/sky feeling from so many different nationalities. But, I seem to remember British press and sentiment to be focused on jealous French?! Maybe I'm wrong but the script is there to invoke blind patriotic support from a naive new cycling nation (as a whole, I'm an English man who's watched pro cycling since 1994. I've seen this with my own eyes) who follow blindly the rot they are fed.

 

[gooner]

Re:

I really don't mind them wearing helmets indoors, nothing is a fashion faux pas as long as you r.o.c.k. it with self-confidence. I do mind their useless journalism.

That's fair enough.

I don't agree either with the free pass they will more than likely get off the media.

I wouldn't put them alone in that category though. Far from it.

 

[42x16ss]

Re: Re:

[quote="
https://twitter.com/TeamSky/status/686837919563132928

Crash helmets on whilst watching the briefing. Just about sums those bell ends up.

the problem is yours, not theirs.
enjoy your afternoon

I don't wear a helmet indoors whilst dreaming of riding in a ford estate car tossing dave bs salad but thanks for your concern ;-)

I wore my helmet indoors while ordering a drink in the cafe. Was that a faux pas? It's so easy to make a mistake!

Were you worried that the barista was going to mug you or something?

 

[wrinklyvet]

Re: Re:

Nice one! Actually not that kind of cafe. No baristas where we hang out. When carrying your own tray from the counter it's easiest to leave the helmet on!

But in relation to this Sky story, perhaps you agree with the "faux outrage" comment that gooner made above. Trying to ridicule journalists from this photo is just bizarre.

 

[Jacques de Molay]

Re: Re:

Trying to ridicule journalists from this photo is just bizarre.

I thought we were ridiculing you.

 

[Bronstein]

Re: Re:

Nice one! Actually not that kind of cafe. No baristas where we hang out. When carrying your own tray from the counter it's easiest to leave the helmet on!

But in relation to this Sky story, perhaps you agree with the "faux outrage" comment that gooner made above. Trying to ridicule journalists from this photo is just bizarre.

Many of them are sycophants. They deserve to be ridiculed.

 

[Jacques de Molay]

Re: Sky

But, I seem to remember British press and sentiment to be focused on jealous French?!

Your memory is intact.

Speaking exclusively to Sky News, the current yellow jersey holder said: "A fan, a supposed fan, at one point... threw a pot of urine at me while shouting 'doper'.

"It was clearly a French fan and that's not acceptable - it's not acceptable on any level.
http://news.sky.com/story/1521348/froome-spectator-threw-urine-in-my-face

From Mr. Impartial himself

@DavidWalshST
On transitional stages it is not international crowd. Guy who spat at another Sky rider today was French. 99% fans well behaved
https://twitter.com/DavidWalshST/status/622478005579972608?lang=en

@DavidWalshST
From emails and chats with Irish people at Corner 10, I realise worst offenders were group of French fans who could be classed as thugs.
https://twitter.com/DavidWalshST/status/360445066952704000?lang=en

And quick to correct himself for previously daring to suggest that it was anyone other then French fans who were behaving badly

@DavidWalshST
I apologise to the many Irish fans who behaved properly at Corner 10 and felt offended by my generalization.
https://twitter.com/DavidWalshST/status/360445506519965696?lang=en

Not to be outdone
Tour de France 2015: French 'bitter' about Chris Froome's success

Sir David Brailsford suggests French cycling fans have turned on Chris Froome because they are jealous of British success in their race.

 

[Archibald]

Re: Re:

Nice one! Actually not that kind of cafe. No baristas where we hang out. When carrying your own tray from the counter it's easiest to leave the helmet on!

McCafe then?

 

[The Carrot]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/brailsford-calls-on-cookson-to-implement-data-release-system/

But what about the pseudo scientists?

 

[B_Ugli]

Re:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/brailsford-calls-on-cookson-to-implement-data-release-system/

But what about the pseudo scientists?

Nice one Dave.

What the sport really needs to do is remove doctors from the team equation all together. The average fit human being probably goes to their doctor once a year, if that. So why do you need 3 or 4 doctors full time for a group of 30 young, fit guys??

Instead the doctors should employed by the governing body to administer treatment for certain conditions only like crash injuries, infections etc and pre-existing medical conditions. They sit on the race and riders/teams book an appt with the UCI doctor in the same way as any other GP/MD.

What the doctors should not be is a walking pharmacy intrenched within the team set up, dispensing pills to help guys get to the finish line of a one day race or finish a 3 week tour (as was the case in the Argos Shimano docufilm).

Irrespective of whether the docs are prescribing "clean" meds, the dependency on pharmacology should be removed from the sport altogether save for a few very strict scenarios.

You could argue that this would drive doping underground, the flipside is that anything not prescribed by a UCI carries an automatic 5 year ban. The teams could also have an obligation to disclose all "supplements" at the start of the season. Non-registered supplements also carry a ban if caught using.

 

[pastronef]

Re: Re:

is it really true that journalists have to be always objective? And if it is, does accepting hospitality prevent this? And further, if so, is Team Sky innovative and groundbreaking in offering it? Because if not, what's this sniping all about?

The sniping is about journo's acting like fanboys. It's not necessary to report on Sky's change of car sponsor for 3 days straight and it's also not necessary to have seperate "exclusive" photo galleries for each rider's bike. If it happens once, no problem, but when a pattern can be found it becomes an issue for some people. Only Sky gets such ridiculous attention from the media and now it's clear why Every time a team Sky member farts a journalist is ready to write a puff piece about it.

Flo, here are 2 Etixx team bikes on cyclingnews.com. is it fine to have 2 Etixx bikes photo galleries?
yes, one is a Tarmac and the other is a Venge. but people would have moaned anyway if there were a Dogma and a cobble-Dogma or a Bolide

Jan 11: Kittel´s bike http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/marcel-kittels-2016-specialized-eqs-venge-gallery/
Jan 13: D.Martin´s bike http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/dan-martins-specialized-s-works-tarmac-gallery/

The Sky bikes were: Jan 11 Froome´s, Jan 12 Kwiato

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

is it really true that journalists have to be always objective? And if it is, does accepting hospitality prevent this? And further, if so, is Team Sky innovative and groundbreaking in offering it? Because if not, what's this sniping all about?

The sniping is about journo's acting like fanboys. It's not necessary to report on Sky's change of car sponsor for 3 days straight and it's also not necessary to have seperate "exclusive" photo galleries for each rider's bike. If it happens once, no problem, but when a pattern can be found it becomes an issue for some people. Only Sky gets such ridiculous attention from the media and now it's clear why Every time a team Sky member farts a journalist is ready to write a puff piece about it.

Flo, here are 2 Etixx team bikes on cyclingnews.com. is it fine to have 2 Etixx bikes photo galleries?
yes, one is a Tarmac and the other is a Venge. but people would have moaned anyway if there were a Dogma and a cobble-Dogma or a Bolide

Jan 11: Kittel´s bike http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/marcel-kittels-2016-specialized-eqs-venge-gallery/
Jan 13: D.Martin´s bike http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/dan-martins-specialized-s-works-tarmac-gallery/

The Sky bikes were: Jan 11 Froome´s, Jan 12 Kwiato

i thought it was a great (couple of) post(s) by Flo.
It's about the pattern that is emerging, which is compelling.
Etixx don't come close to Sky in terms of (quantity and type of) media coverage.

 

[pastronef]

Re: Re:

is it really true that journalists have to be always objective? And if it is, does accepting hospitality prevent this? And further, if so, is Team Sky innovative and groundbreaking in offering it? Because if not, what's this sniping all about?

The sniping is about journo's acting like fanboys. It's not necessary to report on Sky's change of car sponsor for 3 days straight and it's also not necessary to have seperate "exclusive" photo galleries for each rider's bike. If it happens once, no problem, but when a pattern can be found it becomes an issue for some people. Only Sky gets such ridiculous attention from the media and now it's clear why Every time a team Sky member farts a journalist is ready to write a puff piece about it.

Flo, here are 2 Etixx team bikes on cyclingnews.com. is it fine to have 2 Etixx bikes photo galleries?
yes, one is a Tarmac and the other is a Venge. but people would have moaned anyway if there were a Dogma and a cobble-Dogma or a Bolide

Jan 11: Kittel´s bike http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/marcel-kittels-2016-specialized-eqs-venge-gallery/
Jan 13: D.Martin´s bike http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/dan-martins-specialized-s-works-tarmac-gallery/

The Sky bikes were: Jan 11 Froome´s, Jan 12 Kwiato

i thought it was a great (couple of) post(s) by Flo.
It's about the pattern that is emerging, which is compelling.
Etixx don't come close to Sky in terms of (quantity and type of) media coverage.

Flo´s post were fine, I understand what she mean and I know she does not like team Sky.
anyway we got 2 team Etixx team bikes on cyclingnews too, and nobody noticed nor blinked an eye.
and I have nothing against Etixx or their Specy´s bikes

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

is it really true that journalists have to be always objective? And if it is, does accepting hospitality prevent this? And further, if so, is Team Sky innovative and groundbreaking in offering it? Because if not, what's this sniping all about?

The sniping is about journo's acting like fanboys. It's not necessary to report on Sky's change of car sponsor for 3 days straight and it's also not necessary to have seperate "exclusive" photo galleries for each rider's bike. If it happens once, no problem, but when a pattern can be found it becomes an issue for some people. Only Sky gets such ridiculous attention from the media and now it's clear why Every time a team Sky member farts a journalist is ready to write a puff piece about it.

Flo, here are 2 Etixx team bikes on cyclingnews.com. is it fine to have 2 Etixx bikes photo galleries?
yes, one is a Tarmac and the other is a Venge. but people would have moaned anyway if there were a Dogma and a cobble-Dogma or a Bolide

Jan 11: Kittel´s bike http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/marcel-kittels-2016-specialized-eqs-venge-gallery/
Jan 13: D.Martin´s bike http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/dan-martins-specialized-s-works-tarmac-gallery/

The Sky bikes were: Jan 11 Froome´s, Jan 12 Kwiato

i thought it was a great (couple of) post(s) by Flo.
It's about the pattern that is emerging, which is compelling.
Etixx don't come close to Sky in terms of (quantity and type of) media coverage.

Flo´s post were fine, I understand what she mean and I know she does not like team Sky.
anyway we got 2 team Etixx team bikes on cyclingnews too, and nobody noticed nor blinked an eye.
and I have nothing against Etixx or their Specy´s bikes

sure, but as mentioned often before, it's not Etixx who've been screaming marginal gains off the rooftops.
put differently, they've not been insulting the brain of the average cycling fan as much as Sky have.
and again, the example with the bikes is just one of many symptoms, the sum of which show a compelling pattern of sky fanboys with typewriters left right and centre.
such a pattern is hard to identify wrt Etixx, but correct me if wrong.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Yes pastro, you have a point, although these are 2 different bikes (Venge and Tarmac).

 

[Jacques de Molay]

Re: Re:

is it fine to have 2 Etixx bikes photo galleries?

Sure. It is fine.

Has it occurred to you that anything Sky-related just carries more of a distaste to it than other stories about other teams?

There are reasons for that, of course. This entire thread is a testament to that. I shouldn't have to repeat any those reasons either. That's what this thread has documented.

It's very, very simple. Some people just really don't care for Team Sky.

Some people waste a tremendous amount of time and energy trying to determine why that is.

That those same people are still puzzled by this, is puzzling to me. It's been explained to them, over and over again.

 

[Jacques de Molay]

Re:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/brailsford-calls-on-cookson-to-implement-data-release-system/

But what about the pseudo scientists?

Indeed.

But what are we to make of Brailsford's delusional understanding of doping in 2016?

“I’d have a group of anti-doping guys who rotate between the teams and are with us 24/7,” said the 51-year-old.

What the hell does his age have to do with anything? The wise, old man?

“We spend all this time on the road and it wouldn’t be that difficult for an anti-doping person to be here with us all the time, go to every bedroom, go and see what we’re doing. If someone was cheating, it wouldn’t be difficult [to catch them] – they’d have to have it somewhere, be doing something at some time. If they lived here 100 per cent of the time, they’d find out, surely.

Except for the fact that most doping would take place prior to the bus and hotel room, no?

Either Brailsford is, once again, trying to play the fans for fools...

or

Brailsford hasn't the slightest clue about how elite athletes actually dope.

Of course Sky fans can jump and down with glee at the prospect of Dave's ignorance on the topic as being a clear sign that he is untarnished in his pursuit of clean sport. However, if he is that ignorant, then it wouldn't take much for one of his riders to pull the wool over his eyes.

Not that any of his riders would ever do anything to deceive their own team about their personal training methods.

“Get out there, get amongst it. It would be cheaper, and way more effective.”

LOL OK.

Never tested positive.

 

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

is it really true that journalists have to be always objective? And if it is, does accepting hospitality prevent this? And further, if so, is Team Sky innovative and groundbreaking in offering it? Because if not, what's this sniping all about?

The sniping is about journo's acting like fanboys. It's not necessary to report on Sky's change of car sponsor for 3 days straight and it's also not necessary to have seperate "exclusive" photo galleries for each rider's bike. If it happens once, no problem, but when a pattern can be found it becomes an issue for some people. Only Sky gets such ridiculous attention from the media and now it's clear why Every time a team Sky member farts a journalist is ready to write a puff piece about it.

Flo, here are 2 Etixx team bikes on cyclingnews.com. is it fine to have 2 Etixx bikes photo galleries?
yes, one is a Tarmac and the other is a Venge. but people would have moaned anyway if there were a Dogma and a cobble-Dogma or a Bolide

Jan 11: Kittel´s bike http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/marcel-kittels-2016-specialized-eqs-venge-gallery/
Jan 13: D.Martin´s bike http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/dan-martins-specialized-s-works-tarmac-gallery/

The Sky bikes were: Jan 11 Froome´s, Jan 12 Kwiato

i thought it was a great (couple of) post(s) by Flo.
It's about the pattern that is emerging, which is compelling.
Etixx don't come close to Sky in terms of (quantity and type of) media coverage.

Flo´s post were fine, I understand what she mean and I know she does not like team Sky.
anyway we got 2 team Etixx team bikes on cyclingnews too, and nobody noticed nor blinked an eye.
and I have nothing against Etixx or their Specy´s bikes

Correct me if I am wrong but the issue is primarily the ratio of Sky articles to the rest of the World Tour teams. For example right now if you go to the cyclingnews home page, you will find 7 Sky related articles with photographic banners. I am willing to guess that if one were to do a comparison for any time period, Sky would have quite a large advantage in the number of articles dedicated to them. Yes they are a media comglomerate and promoting the team that they sponsor should be an area of expertise but one shouldn't be surprised when some folks that frequent this site get a bit overwhelmed and smothered by the avalanche of Sky reporting, which to me is at the expense of actual leg work and reporting that could be done about some of the other teams and their riders. We have forum members that regularly scoop the folks at cn who are paid to cover the sport.

 

[wrinklyvet]

Well if what this is really about is the prevalence of articles about Team Sky and the undue attention they receive, those who make such a fuss about a few photos on the team's own publicity outlet of journalists at some jolly they arranged have rather defeated their own purpose. All the righteous indignation, including ridiculing the apparently naff behaviour (wearing helmets indoors) has only served to draw attention to the team, as have all these 1754 pages and many others. There appears to be some concern that these journalists may inevitably go gratefully from this event and write about Sky. Yes, I expect they will. What a pity their efforts will be wasted because they will be ignored ...... or will they? It seems to me that somebody hunted out something to be critical about rather than ignoring it. But isn't it ever so?

 

[pastronef]

Re: Re:

sure, but as mentioned often before, it's not Etixx who've been screaming marginal gains off the rooftops.
put differently, they've not been insulting the brain of the average cycling fan as much as Sky have.
and again, the example with the bikes is just one of many symptoms, the sum of which show a compelling pattern of sky fanboys with typewriters left right and centre.
such a pattern is hard to identify wrt Etixx, but correct me if wrong.

ok ok.
so what teams need to do is keep silent, while employing Ibarguren Taus and Van Mol (yes, and Leinders too for Sky) and fans will be happy.
just dont scream marginal gains, and use the fuel you like, and you´ll be ok.
my brain is fine, the average cycling fan dont need the clinic to defend himself. when/if Sky will go down, the average Sky fan will open his eye.
marginal gains are for blind sky fans in UK. here in the clinic we should have a laugh about that narrative, not getting annoyed about.

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

sure, but as mentioned often before, it's not Etixx who've been screaming marginal gains off the rooftops.
put differently, they've not been insulting the brain of the average cycling fan as much as Sky have.
and again, the example with the bikes is just one of many symptoms, the sum of which show a compelling pattern of sky fanboys with typewriters left right and centre.
such a pattern is hard to identify wrt Etixx, but correct me if wrong.

ok ok.
so what teams need to do is keep silent, while employing Ibarguren Taus and Van Mol (yes, and Leinders too for Sky) and fans will be happy.
just dont scream marginal gains, and use the fuel you like, and you´ll be ok.
my brain is fine, the average cycling fan dont need the clinic to defend himself. when/if Sky will go down, the average Sky fan will open his eye.
marginal gains are for blind sky fans in UK. here in the clinic we should have a laugh about that narrative, not getting annoyed about.

personally speaking, the hypocrisy is what kills cycling.
Cookson, Garmin and Sky and the Sky favorable press (Walsh, Moore, Guardian, etc.) are currently at the forefront in that area.
I have as little sympathy for Cookson and Vaughters as I have for Brailsford.
I don't get similar insults from Lefevere, or at least less so.
Lefevere, Ibarguren and Van Mol show that there is no such thing as a new clean generation. And I don't remember Lefevere shoving that myth down our throats either.

Sky are doing a USPS on so many levels. We've been there discussed that.

 

[pastronef]

Re: Re:

sure, but as mentioned often before, it's not Etixx who've been screaming marginal gains off the rooftops.
put differently, they've not been insulting the brain of the average cycling fan as much as Sky have.
and again, the example with the bikes is just one of many symptoms, the sum of which show a compelling pattern of sky fanboys with typewriters left right and centre.
such a pattern is hard to identify wrt Etixx, but correct me if wrong.

ok ok.
so what teams need to do is keep silent, while employing Ibarguren Taus and Van Mol (yes, and Leinders too for Sky) and fans will be happy.
just dont scream marginal gains, and use the fuel you like, and you´ll be ok.
my brain is fine, the average cycling fan dont need the clinic to defend himself. when/if Sky will go down, the average Sky fan will open his eye.
marginal gains are for blind sky fans in UK. here in the clinic we should have a laugh about that narrative, not getting annoyed about.

personally speaking, the hypocrisy is what kills cycling.
Cookson, Garmin and Sky and the Sky favorable press (Walsh, Moore, Guardian, etc.) are currently at the forefront in that area.
I have as little sympathy for Cookson and Vaughters as I have for Brailsford.
I don't get similar insults from Lefevere, or at least less so.
Lefevere, Ibarguren and Van Mol show that there is no such thing as a new clean generation. And I don't remember Lefevere shoving that myth down our throats either.

Sky are doing a USPS on so many levels. We've been there discussed that.

nice post, I understand.
I think it´s a problem of things perceived. I dont feel anyone shoving anything down my throat. I know there is no clean generation.

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

sure, but as mentioned often before, it's not Etixx who've been screaming marginal gains off the rooftops.
put differently, they've not been insulting the brain of the average cycling fan as much as Sky have.
and again, the example with the bikes is just one of many symptoms, the sum of which show a compelling pattern of sky fanboys with typewriters left right and centre.
such a pattern is hard to identify wrt Etixx, but correct me if wrong.

ok ok.
so what teams need to do is keep silent, while employing Ibarguren Taus and Van Mol (yes, and Leinders too for Sky) and fans will be happy.
just dont scream marginal gains, and use the fuel you like, and you´ll be ok.
my brain is fine, the average cycling fan dont need the clinic to defend himself. when/if Sky will go down, the average Sky fan will open his eye.
marginal gains are for blind sky fans in UK. here in the clinic we should have a laugh about that narrative, not getting annoyed about.

personally speaking, the hypocrisy is what kills cycling.
Cookson, Garmin and Sky and the Sky favorable press (Walsh, Moore, Guardian, etc.) are currently at the forefront in that area.
I have as little sympathy for Cookson and Vaughters as I have for Brailsford.
I don't get similar insults from Lefevere, or at least less so.
Lefevere, Ibarguren and Van Mol show that there is no such thing as a new clean generation. And I don't remember Lefevere shoving that myth down our throats either.

Sky are doing a USPS on so many levels. We've been there discussed that.

nice post, I understand.
I think it´s a problem of things perceived. I dont feel anyone shoving anything down my throat. I know there is no clean generation.

very fair point, and you're certainly right, some including myself get too emotional/worked up about the whole circus. It's good to be reminded of that.

 

[42x16ss]

Re: Re:

is it really true that journalists have to be always objective? And if it is, does accepting hospitality prevent this? And further, if so, is Team Sky innovative and groundbreaking in offering it? Because if not, what's this sniping all about?

The sniping is about journo's acting like fanboys. It's not necessary to report on Sky's change of car sponsor for 3 days straight and it's also not necessary to have seperate "exclusive" photo galleries for each rider's bike. If it happens once, no problem, but when a pattern can be found it becomes an issue for some people. Only Sky gets such ridiculous attention from the media and now it's clear why Every time a team Sky member farts a journalist is ready to write a puff piece about it.

Flo, here are 2 Etixx team bikes on cyclingnews.com. is it fine to have 2 Etixx bikes photo galleries?
yes, one is a Tarmac and the other is a Venge. but people would have moaned anyway if there were a Dogma and a cobble-Dogma or a Bolide

Jan 11: Kittel´s bike http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/marcel-kittels-2016-specialized-eqs-venge-gallery/
Jan 13: D.Martin´s bike http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/dan-martins-specialized-s-works-tarmac-gallery/

The Sky bikes were: Jan 11 Froome´s, Jan 12 Kwiato

It would barely be noticed and you know it. Two DIFFERENT bike models justify two different articles in anyone's mind. Look back over the articles over the years, how often have two identical bikes, from the same team, whose only difference is size, been covered a day apart until now?

I'm going with never. Even if you compare the articles on say, Kittel's and Sagan's new bikes, there's one in standard team colours and another in a revolting OTT WC paint job and they were separated by a week.