Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[TheSpud]

Re: Re:

So Sky have been caught lying about a PED. The most blatant smoking gun yet. Odd this story isn't getting more traction. Perhaps it's just that no one is even remotely surprised. Sky doping story fatigue setting in big time now

That this has come to light only after the GMC got involved, and after UKAD gave up, shows just how ineffective UKAD is. Watch Brailsfraud throw Peters under the bus. And Peters throw Freeman under the bus. Freeman must be tempted to flip (assuming he hasn't already)

The Data Protection Act means that unless any riders involved agree to the release of the information whatever Freeman knows is useless to UKAD and WADA as whatever may of gone down is protected by confidentiality.

Ahhh ... no ... MatParker!!! Why the feck didgya have to do that, now!?! Would suck the fun outa a feckin Ceilidh, I reckon, you would, FFS.

Oh well ... best we know that now ... rather than beatin the piss outa the keyboard all weekend ... with fevered excitement that will come to nowt.

Soldier on, I guess. Soldier on. :lol: :lol: :lol:

But hold on.

'The Data Protection Act 1998 (c 29) is a United Kingdom Act of Parliament designed to protect personal data stored on computers or in an organised paper filing system.'

I put it to you we have heard sworn evidence that Sky have no organised paper filing system nor is anything relevant stored on computer since the unfortunate theft of a laptop. Therefore the act cannot apply.

I'm struggling to see how the DPA applies. Its mainly about ensuring accurate data is kept, securely and is not misused.

 

[TheSpud]

Re: Sky

Mail on GMC investigation into Freeman
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/othersports/article-5451759/Banned-testosterone-patches-ordered-Team-Sky-HQ.html

That gun certainly has started smoking more now ...

 

[red_flanders]

Re: Sky

Had to share this brilliance from the comments section on the latest Sky kerfuffle.

It's all perfectly reasonable.
And one day I'll come out and tell the full story - but not now.
Let me explain, though.
Only today, I went to my doctor and they had no medical records for me because they keep them all on one single computer.
And my doctor takes that computer on holiday.
Then, it got stolen.
The doctor had forgotten to back-up his files. Not a one-time mistake - he did this over years, despite his vast experience as a doctor.
And no-one in the doctor's organisation ever checked those medical files - not once - so no-one knew that they didn't exist.
But why would anyone – including the other doctors – check my medical files? Or those of any other rider.
Fortunately, the organisation managed to wipe my doctor’s stolen computer remotely – the lord only knows how.
They could do that, but could not extract the data from it – the lord only knows how.
This organisation also got me a prescription from France and flew it to me here in Britain, even though there was a pharmacist down the road where I could buy it over the counter.
I also take a much, much stronger drug - which many people say I shouldn't take. I take this drug very sporadically - only three times in my life. Otherwise, I don't need it.
But I definitely needed it those three times in my life – just before grand tours.
The doctor had a large supply of this drug at his surgery: 55-70 doses.
Far more than he needed for the doses that I was supposed to have taken.
So, I could have been taking those extra doses at different times – legally out of competition, but also I could have taken it in competition because as I had a note saying I was allowed to take the drug and so they'd never know if I took it more than once.
The note I got in 2011 was actually given to me before I even had the medical.
And in 2012, I took my special drug 6 weeks after my medical examination that it was based on.
But then who doesn’t wait a month and a half to take a drug they desperately need?
And I desperately needed it because before I had that medical note I was only able to win a week-long bike races up mountains against the best riders in the world by one minute.
Our riders have been noticeably thin and sickly for a number of years.
And they often perform much better than previously once they join our team.
I wonder how many others are taking my special drug and how often.
Lots of people who have also been involved with this organisation have said that they have been given or offered a few different drugs, which is all legal, so that's fine.
Maybe they were taking these extra doses of the extra strong drug too, which is legal out of competition.
But I've no idea, because we're a very disorganised bunch and we don't keep medical records – despite this being a legal requirement for doctors.
We even got some bad drugs delivered accidentally, either that or we ordered them and then asked the supplier to say we didn't.
My doctor's poorly, so no-one can ask him what's going on.
But the General Medical Council probably will soon.
I think he might be a ‘rogue doctor’.
That might be what the boss decides.
They might have to blame the boss because once they get rid of him everyone will just assume that it’s all fine now and will stop
asking questions like ‘Who were the 55-70 doses of dangerous and performance-enhancing corticosteroids for – which and how many riders take them?’
The boss must be getting forgetful because he said he didn’t know anything about my special drug.
But then he said that he’d taken it himself.
The colleague I don’t like is really good now. He keeps talking about how he doesn’t take drugs and he wants to be tested more.
But then it turns out he has magic kidneys that turn themselves off and on again – how else could he have twice as much salbutamol in his system as he should do?
So, he must be innocent. Which is a shame because he is my enemy.
A lot of the drugs – corticosteroids (out of competition) and tramadol, for instance – are legal. That means they’re ok to take. Even though they have effects like damaging the immune system and causing dizziness (man, those descents in the Giro were difficult).
And then there are those pesky testosterone patches – but that was all just a big whoopsy-mistake, as I say above: they were maybe ordered or maybe not ordered, but no-one used them. God, we do well in the track olympic cycling.
All I know is everything's absolutely fine and people should just trust us.
It’s all good for British cycling – look how many medals we’ve won.
Look at my medals.

Love it.

 

[Electress]

Re: Sky

Mail on GMC investigation into Freeman
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/othersports/article-5451759/Banned-testosterone-patches-ordered-Team-Sky-HQ.html

That gun certainly has started smoking more now ...

Assuming this is true, it's hard to see how they can wriggle out of this. They ordered the patches, they lied about ordering the patches, and then it would seem that they forced the supplier to lie about their delivery to help cover it up.

 

[Wiggo's Package]

Latest from Matt Lawton - the testosterone patches company "fully complied" with requests from both UKAD and the GMC

Which rather begs the question as to how/why the GMC has managed to establish that that Team Sky lied about the delivery - but UKAD somehow failed to do so...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-5455969/Fit-4-Sport-insists-fully-complied-inquiry.html

"The medical supplier at the centre of the testosterone patches controversy at Team Sky and British Cycling insists it has fully co-operated with the authorities...the company insisted on Friday it had complied with requests from the GMC and UK Anti-Doping. 'We have been asked by the GMC not to comment on the current investigation, like we were told not to comment on the UKAD investigation in 2017,' said a statement from the company. 'We have fully co-operated with both UKAD and GMC.' "

 

[King Boonen]

Re:

Latest from Matt Lawton - the testosterone patches company "fully complied" with requests from both UKAD and the GMC

Which rather begs the question as to how/why the GMC has managed to establish that that Team Sky lied about the delivery - but UKAD somehow failed to do so...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-5455969/Fit-4-Sport-insists-fully-complied-inquiry.html

"The medical supplier at the centre of the testosterone patches controversy at Team Sky and British Cycling insists it has fully co-operated with the authorities...the company insisted on Friday it had complied with requests from the GMC and UK Anti-Doping. 'We have been asked by the GMC not to comment on the current investigation, like we were told not to comment on the UKAD investigation in 2017,' said a statement from the company. 'We have fully co-operated with both UKAD and GMC.' "

Fully cooperates generally means they have done what is required of them by law. This is likely different depending on who comes knocking on the door.

 

[macbindle]

@Red Flanders

"Magic kidneys that turn themselves off and on again"

I've just inhaled my porridge

 

[samhocking]

Re: Sky

I don't think anything has changed other than UKAD couldn't link the testosterone to any riders and now GMC have followed on from were UKAD ended. The story was originally Freeman accidentally ordered Testosterone iirc because he couldn't do it online, so would telephone his order through and a similar sounding product got misheard as Testosterone. That story rapidly turned into the testosterone was received in error, rather than ordered in error. Now GMC are saying Freeman did order testosterone, which is in effect what Freeman originally said happened by accident over the phone order.
It all depends on if the testosterone was an ordering error or Freeman really ordered it and the covering letter was to cover his traces as the order was opened by other staff I believe.

 

[Bronstein]

Re: Sky

I don't think anything has changed other than UKAD couldn't link the testosterone to any riders and now GMC have followed on from were UKAD ended. The story was originally Freeman accidentally ordered Testosterone iirc because he couldn't do it online, so would telephone his order through and a similar sounding product got misheard as Testosterone. That story rapidly turned into the testosterone was received in error, rather than ordered in error. Now GMC are saying Freeman did order testosterone, which is in effect what Freeman originally said happened by accident over the phone order.
It all depends on if the testosterone was an ordering error or Freeman really ordered it and the covering letter was to cover his traces as the order was opened by other staff I believe.

Who said that?

 

[brownbobby]

From the company name 'Fit 4Sport' I'm presuming this company specialise in supplying pharmaceutical products to sports people and organisations...

Now, i know there are genuine medical uses for testosterone, but not in sport. As far as I'm aware, synthetic testosterone in any variant is banned outright in every regulated and controlled sport worldwide.

So it begs the question, why was this product even available from Fit 4Sport in the first place....if it's for illegitimate use, then why do British Cycling have such a company as part of the supply chain...

 

[Wiggo's Package]

Re: Sky

I don't think anything has changed other than UKAD couldn't link the testosterone to any riders and now GMC have followed on from were UKAD ended. The story was originally Freeman accidentally ordered Testosterone iirc because he couldn't do it online, so would telephone his order through and a similar sounding product got misheard as Testosterone. That story rapidly turned into the testosterone was received in error, rather than ordered in error. Now GMC are saying Freeman did order testosterone, which is in effect what Freeman originally said happened by accident over the phone order.
It all depends on if the testosterone was an ordering error or Freeman really ordered it and the covering letter was to cover his traces as the order was opened by other staff I believe.

The phone call excuse (Brailsfraud's fingerprints all over that, again) is undermined by the GMC having now found evidence that Sky ordered the testo patches. "Evidence" very much suggests a paper trail not a garbled phone call

"Sportsmail understands a General Medical Council investigation into Dr Richard Freeman, the former Team Sky and British Cycling doctor, has obtained evidence that suggests testosterone patches were ordered - despite Sky previously claiming they had been sent by mistake"

And your theory conveniently ignores Team Sky's subsequent cover up:

"Later, a request was made to the company in Oldham asking them to send an email saying the package had been sent in error"

For balance Michael Rasmussen knows where it's at:

"@MRasmussen1974

Testosteron patches delivered to the national training center 7 years ago. I guess we only have to wait for another 3 years until It’s revealed who actually used them. #10years #statuteoflimitation #NoBStalk #Teamsky #Iknownothing"

 

[gillan1969]

Re: Sky

I don't think anything has changed other than UKAD couldn't link the testosterone to any riders and now GMC have followed on from were UKAD ended. The story was originally Freeman accidentally ordered Testosterone iirc because he couldn't do it online, so would telephone his order through and a similar sounding product got misheard as Testosterone. That story rapidly turned into the testosterone was received in error, rather than ordered in error. Now GMC are saying Freeman did order testosterone, which is in effect what Freeman originally said happened by accident over the phone order.
It all depends on if the testosterone was an ordering error or Freeman really ordered it and the covering letter was to cover his traces as the order was opened by other staff I believe.

Who said that?

indeed sam...who said that as I'm not sure you do rc?

 

[Wiggo's Package]

Amazing to think that the person taking the orders at Fit4Sport didn't quote Freeman's garbled pronunciation back at him to ensure no mistake was made. They must have been sending the wrong stuff out on a daily basis!

And anyway, can anyone think of a medical product a pro cycling team might order that sounds like testosterone...?

 

[macbindle]

Wonder what Freeman was trying to order? Toblerone?

 

[Alpe73]

Re:

Amazing to think that the person taking the orders at Fit4Sport didn't quote Freeman's garbled pronunciation back at him to ensure no mistake was made. They must have been sending the wrong stuff out on a daily basis!

And anyway, can anyone think of a medical product a pro cycling team might order that sounds like testosterone...?

You're closing in, Sherlock. I can smell it. :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[TourOfSardinia]

Re:

Wonder what Freeman was trying to order? Toblerone?

 

[Wiggo's Package]

Re:

Wonder what Freeman was trying to order? Toblerone?

OMG they were even lying about the Nutella!

 

[Wiggo's Package]

Re: Re:

Amazing to think that the person taking the orders at Fit4Sport didn't quote Freeman's garbled pronunciation back at him to ensure no mistake was made. They must have been sending the wrong stuff out on a daily basis!

And anyway, can anyone think of a medical product a pro cycling team might order that sounds like testosterone...?

You're closing in, Sherlock. I can smell it. :lol: :lol: :lol:

There's certainly a strong smell, eh

Cow ***? Pig ***? No it's...

 

[pastronef]

Re: Sky

https://twitter.com/stevechapman65/status/970304453839671296

“The committee gathered information about senior personnel who doped as cyclists and then allegedly lied about that, including to Parliament. Sources say a separate study into that alleged cheating, cover-ups and an ongoing culture of omertà “

 

[Parker]

Re: Sky

https://twitter.com/stevechapman65/status/970304453839671296

“The committee gathered information about senior personnel who doped as cyclists and then allegedly lied about that, including to Parliament. Sources say a separate study into that alleged cheating, cover-ups and an ongoing culture of omertà “

Who are these personnel? Are they seriously going to have a study into whether a third rate Australian pro took some disco biscuits in the 80s?

 

[pastronef]

Re: Sky

https://twitter.com/stevechapman65/status/970304453839671296

“The committee gathered information about senior personnel who doped as cyclists and then allegedly lied about that, including to Parliament. Sources say a separate study into that alleged cheating, cover-ups and an ongoing culture of omertà “

Who are these personnel? Are they seriously going to have a study into whether a third rate Australian pro took some disco biscuits in the 80s?

yes maybe Sutton, Knaven investigation about what they did as cyclists. dont know. it could be a bomb as it could be not so bad
we´ll see tomorrow

 

[Parker]

Re: Sky

https://twitter.com/stevechapman65/status/970304453839671296

“The committee gathered information about senior personnel who doped as cyclists and then allegedly lied about that, including to Parliament. Sources say a separate study into that alleged cheating, cover-ups and an ongoing culture of omertà “

Who are these personnel? Are they seriously going to have a study into whether a third rate Australian pro took some disco biscuits in the 80s?

yes maybe Sutton, Knaven investigation about what they did as cyclists. dont know. it could be a bomb as it could be not so bad
we´ll see tomorrow

What a Dutch rider did or didn't do on a Belgian team is no business of UK parliament.

 

[gillan1969]

Re: Sky

https://twitter.com/stevechapman65/status/970304453839671296

“The committee gathered information about senior personnel who doped as cyclists and then allegedly lied about that, including to Parliament. Sources say a separate study into that alleged cheating, cover-ups and an ongoing culture of omertà “

Who are these personnel? Are they seriously going to have a study into whether a third rate Australian pro took some disco biscuits in the 80s?

yes maybe Sutton, Knaven investigation about what they did as cyclists. dont know. it could be a bomb as it could be not so bad
we´ll see tomorrow

What a Dutch rider did or didn't do on a Belgian team is no business of UK parliament.

we're not out of the EU yet

 

[macbindle]

Re: Sky

https://twitter.com/stevechapman65/status/970304453839671296

“The committee gathered information about senior personnel who doped as cyclists and then allegedly lied about that, including to Parliament. Sources say a separate study into that alleged cheating, cover-ups and an ongoing culture of omertà “

Who are these personnel? Are they seriously going to have a study into whether a third rate Australian pro took some disco biscuits in the 80s?

yes maybe Sutton, Knaven investigation about what they did as cyclists. dont know. it could be a bomb as it could be not so bad
we´ll see tomorrow

What a Dutch rider did or didn't do on a Belgian team is no business of UK parliament.

Well, actually, yes it is.

The context is the culture at Team Sky. Whether or not they implemented their much vaunted ZTP proactively, or whether it was just employed to the bare minimum and only after being exposed. In other words, it is important to know in order to determine the actual culture at Sky rather than the one they presented.

We already know the answer. Brailsford himself was arrested and questioned in relation to St David of Miller's doping. He knew full well what the doping culture was. He knew full well the likely histories of the Team staff he employed.

 

[Parker]

Re: Sky

Well, actually, yes it is.

The context is the culture at Team Sky. Whether or not they implemented their much vaunted ZTP proactively, or whether it was just employed to the bare minimum and only after being exposed. In other words, it is important to know in order to determine the actual culture at Sky rather than the one they presented.

No it isn't. Sky are free to employ who they like. Whether a private company has stuck to its own internal recruitment guidelines is not a matter for Parliament.