Krebs cycle said:
Aren't you Australian dude? This has to be one of the most ignorant and offensive anti-Australian rants I've ever seen on this forum. For starters Michael Ashenden left the AIS to start SIAB.
If you really are Australian you should be ashamed of yourself for believing such crap as you have written above. I'm ashamed of the Australian's who "booed" Rogers and Porte at the tour. Yeah it sucks they were riding for Rupert Murdoch's evil empire and not for GreenEdge, but still they are Aussies and we should support them, no boo them. If STRONG evidence of doping surfaces, then yeah they should be booed.
Anti-Australian!!! Dude, if an Aussie doesn't call out other Aussies on dodgy behaviour, that alone makes me a biased unabashed fanboy. But not just a fanboy, a nutcase rambling patriotic git. The first people I said were suspicious on Sky were the Australians and I did that for a reason. They were the most obvious people to suspect of doping. This extends to ALL nationalities. If you can't suspect your own, when they are clearly as suspicious and devious as those of other nationalities, you lose all respect for having a balanced perspective and a sound reasoning.
You get your own home in order and then. Does that mean I don't cheer for Australians...give me a break dude. I used Jodie Henry as an example because she is my favourite Australian female swimmer. I'd be exceptionally naive to believe though, given the very publicly listed dirty laundry of our AIS track teams, that our more successful swimming programs are even remotely clean. And it's not like Australian swimmers are as pure as the snow. Would you like a list of the bad eggs? So yes, that does make Gold medal winners success in the past questionable. Right now...well the AIS and our swimming programs aren't what they once were. Why is that?
You make some nice points. I agree...in theory with the groundwork and scope you framed everything, but it's also showing selective bias. Which is what Andrew Coggan tends to do on occassion. But that's not really important. The AFL is super dirty dude. They cover their tracks. Their anti-drug policy is so warped it isn't funny. How many AFL players have OD'ed in Vegas now? Ben Cousins was the tip of the iceberg. They close ranks and protect. Drugs are the least of their social ills to worry about...gambling, gang rape and assault are bigger problems. Rugby League has the same issues, but their system isn't as protective as the AFL. Demetriou knows exactly what he is doing. They both have drug problems that will never see the light of day. The AIS is no different. Except in the realm that you don't believe it's institutionalised.
Fair enough, but the coaches of individual athletes have reputations for a reason. Tim Kerrison's name is the one getting dropped here. Can't say I am surprised given who he has worked with and their excellent performance records. Sure, you yourself weren't involved, fine, my apologies if you thought I was inferring you doped people. I wasn't. Go ask BlackCat about doping in Australia, particularly the lead up to the 2000 Olympics.
Yes I am well aware of the govt intervention. I am also aware of Ashenden's work and why he left. His work is admirable. But the points you make I have real qualms with is the idea that if you test highly at the AIS, then your future performances aren't suspicious. From what I am aware, Cadel had the highest VO2max readings at the AIS. Everyone knows he is the best cyclist physiologically to come out of Australia...but even his scores have been beaten. Nobody on this forum would claim because he was at the AIS, Tony Rominger wouldn't later send him to Ferrari, or let him ride with Floyd's old bosses. In fact, working with the AIS led to those roads opening. But you didn't say he wasn't doping, which I will note. Brett Aitken ring a bell? It's been mentioned on this forum, he tested better than Cadel. Let's not ignore Jobie Dajka, Mark French and Ben Kirsten either. It's not like they were involved with the AIS. Or how about Scott Miller? Or the IGF-1 production in Adelaide. Or the Howard govt investigation into doping...they found a lot of stuff with their committees...from the member on the committee who admitted to doping their athletes. Ask BlackCat about that.
SSDD. Bad eggs who were special and had good measurements. Same deal the British are throwing out. Gotta love the Anglo-Saxon supremacy. We really do think we are better. We aren't. I loved how you flipped it on me not being patriotic. How Australia treats the few dopers who get caught is disgusting. If you come out and start peddling crap like Michael Rogers has done this year, with equally suspicious team mates beside you in Porte, Wiggins and Froome then you'll be called out. Because he was dirty beforehand and suddenly has more power (his own words) than ever before and is slimmer than ever (another disturbing trend). Ultimately you should be called out by your peers and countrymen first. It shows impartiality and a desire to uphold the truth and equality for ALL. Not just those who test highly. But instead you advocate the 'hands over the eyes and fingers in ears' approach. Ignore the questioning. Deflect. Say they had good tests at a govt funded body ages ago. It's what happens after and behind the doors that matters. The zero transparency.
Sadly your position, if the real dirt ever gets out makes your position here untenable. You have the knowledge to know better, to spot the BS and yet you run along with the ride and qualify you position with a simple "I never said they weren't doping." That's why Ashenden left. He's actually doing his best to empower clean athletes and he'd know a lot about doping having worked at the AIS and the bureaucracy. Oh and don't act like the Australian Govt is running around fighting doping. They don't care. They know the public love winners. Aussie GOLD. Those with a brain and in power know how the gig is run. Why would they prevent the boys from getting paid and winning? As you said, that would be un-Australian. And yes, the public already hurl crap on our athletes when they don't deliver. Happens every Olympics. An athlete who wins silver, who cries because they are still a kid and were told they were unbeatable, who gets pipped at the line is suddenly cannon fodder for the real vindictiveness in the general populace...I'm the person who stands up for those athletes. The person who understands where they are in their head. The last thing I do is ridicule or abuse them.
Doping however is different. And it should be called out. Yes, even if it's just suspicious. Grant Hackett's BS about that Chinese girl in London took the cake. Even the Americans weren't that ***...their coach, with clear doping on their squad, called it out. That's the realm we are dealing with...small time doping, versus massive colossal other world doping. That is what Sky have introduced. If it were your usual run of the mill cycling, nobody would start a thread. It's about going above and beyond everyone that brings you into question...or have you forgotten this? And yes, it is allowed. It must be allowed.
I'll ignore the unpatriotic slander. You met me, you'd say the opposite. I cheer louder and harder than most people. I follow multiple sports and am up to date with who is doing what, when and where and more importantly how. I know how the governing structures work, who is in charge and how politics gets in the way. But your claims about anti-doping affecting funding...the people who would smack funding down never get close to finding out. That's old news. I did like the next deflection though...trying to tie me in with people who boo? Who did this? First I've heard of it and if it did happen it was from morons who don't know cycling is team based. Clearly boo-ing for not helping Cadel. Boo-ing is a disgusting behaviour. Regardless of who is involved. The sheep who never question are the ones who boo...especially in Australia. The ones who label anyone who upsets their fairy tale beliefs as 'unpatriotic and a disgrace.'
Or perhaps you forgot that...they're known as fanboys and irrational over zealous patriotic gits. In cycling they are the ones who call Spaniards and Italians 'dirty doping cheats' and prescribe nicknames to caught dopers all because they beat the equally dodgy 'Aussies' they love. I'm the opposite. I'm the person who believes in clean sport, accountability and transparency who has the balls to call everyone, especially their own out for failing to meet that mark. I'm the one with the balanced perspective, who can still see the sport, the obvious doping and still cheer. Because I get how the game works.
One more thing. If Krebs works at ANU, his stance should be taken as seriously as a kick to the nads. Make that any ACT uni. They're all a joke. Most Aussie universities overall are jokes. Macquarie, RMIT, Monash, QIT, UNSW are the true quality uni's. Even the average universities have decent departments, but they also have crap ones. Each uni knows the ins and outs. One of my uni lecturers, a law lecturer, said we should always question. Personalty wise he was a mess, but in terms of understanding the world and how it works, his advice was wise. Always question. That way you are less likely to be hoodwinked and conned...which is exactly what marketing and sports aim to do. Deceive you for $$$.
Have you got any links to place Kerison in the midst of a doping program in swimming?. I don't mean "proof" he knew just that he was there during any scandal . I think there's a few peeps over here in blighty might find that rather illuminating ...few can understand how a swimming coach is coaching cycling. That news might give em an idea..
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